Sad truth of playing the ingame instruments

Sad truth of playing the ingame instruments

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Posted by: Melvin.3295

Melvin.3295

Besides of having only 3 octaves and no sharps/flats the intruments are being played alot by people with macros and even have a whole site dedicated and promoting usage of macros. Besides reporting players for botting is there anything else you can do against those players? Have been in a legit music guild for a while now and own 4 instruments ingame but everytime I see people play the macroed stuff and sometimes even ask money for it I get really kittened off.

Kaname Tanuma – 80 Necromancer
Far Shiverpeaks – Bubblegum Dragons [GUM]

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Posted by: Gaile Gray

Gaile Gray

ArenaNet Communications Manager

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Hey Melvin. I think I understand the frustration. You’ve acquired the instruments and you’ve become proficient in their use, and it’s obviously something you care about. But, I wager your music is different (and probably way better ) than the macro’d stuff, right? So I’d just keep doing what you do and I wouldn’t let what others are doing interfere with your enjoyment of making music!

Put another way: If there had been CD players back in Bach’s day, so you think he would have stopped composing or playing because someone was playing canned music outside Thomaskirche Leipzig? I rather think not.

Gaile Gray
Communications Manager
Guild & Fansite Relations; In-Game Events
ArenaNet

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Posted by: Melvin.3295

Melvin.3295

I see your point about bach. I just hope new people who pick up an instrument from the gemstore don’t just think it is alright to macro any song since I’m sure it is the same thing as using a bot.

Kaname Tanuma – 80 Necromancer
Far Shiverpeaks – Bubblegum Dragons [GUM]

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Posted by: Gaile Gray

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Gaile Gray

ArenaNet Communications Manager

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I see your point about bach. I just hope new people who pick up an instrument from the gemstore don’t just think it is alright to macro any song since I’m sure it is the same thing as using a bot.

Honestly, I’m not sure, but I’m going to ask Customer Support about it. The fact is, we have a policy against automating gameplay through the use of macros or bots. But music? I just don’t know if the rules about third-party programs extend to non-game-related situations.

Gaile Gray
Communications Manager
Guild & Fansite Relations; In-Game Events
ArenaNet

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Posted by: Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054

But arent those players using these macros actually breaking the rules?

Macros are NOT allowed!

As “defined” by several mods, a macro can only do ONE thing! i.e be a key bind.
These macros are doing several things with the single press of a button!

If these macros are allowed then so should skills macros in PvP and WvW!!!!!!
Just because it’s music doesnt change the fact it’s a macro!

The WvW Forum Poster Formerly Known As Omaris Mortuus Est

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Posted by: Falco.9250

Falco.9250

One thing that LOTRO did with its instruments that I really loved was allowed the ability to play .abc files in the documents folder. That way, you could do the music without having to memorize it as much, but without using illegal macros.

You plopped the .abc in the Lord of the Rings Online/music folder and then queued it up by equipping an instrument, typing “/music” and then “/play [filename].abc”. You could even do duets by typing “/play [filename1].abc sync” in a group, and the other person (or …really… up to 5 other people) could type “/play [filename2].abc sync”. That way, everyone in the group could participate in the music, and you could sync up perfectly for everyone without having to worry about lag or anything.

I don’t know if this is something possible in GW2 (or even desired by the community), but I’d love to see something similar. I know that I for one would actually buy instruments if you could play .abcs. >_>

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Posted by: anzenketh.3759

anzenketh.3759

While using a maco in game to play music is against the rules I personally don’t care as long as they are not asking for tips. If they are asking for tips then I have a problem.

In Game: Storm Bluff Isle — Anzz, Anzenketh Kyoto

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Posted by: Melvin.3295

Melvin.3295

The macros are basicly used to cast skills (playing the notes) with a single button. So as far as I know from the rules I’ve read this should be a banable offense in GW2. About the .abc files, I do not agree on bringing this ingame at all, currently it actually requires an actual player skills to play song instead of everyone just going on the web to look for the file and afk play everywhere.

Kaname Tanuma – 80 Necromancer
Far Shiverpeaks – Bubblegum Dragons [GUM]

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Posted by: Licennia.4783

Licennia.4783

I’ll never understand why people would use macros or why people would ever want something like Lord of the Rings Online’s godawful abc system. It makes the whole thing so pointless. You might as well just download and listen to a midi file.

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Posted by: Silverdisc.1305

Silverdisc.1305

To me, it seems backwards to say that macros would be okay for music, because music is not a game-related situation. To some players, including myself, music is some of the most enjoyable gameplay in all of GW2.

I know that we should not let macro users interfere with our enjoyment, but that’s not an easy thing to do. It is extremely frustrating to practice something for weeks on end, and then have someone show up next to you and play your song way better than a human ever could, without any effort.

To us, being able to play certain songs has the same value as having items like a legendary. It’s something you work for, and something you’re happy about when you’ve finally got it. It’s a goal. Macro users are frustrating to musicians in the same way as “free legendaries” would be frustrating to players.

(edited by Silverdisc.1305)

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Posted by: Smokey.7652

Smokey.7652

As “defined” by several mods, a macro can only do ONE thing! i.e be a key bind.
These macros are doing several things with the single press of a button!

Just going to say there is an easy work around to this. Simply edit the script to wait for a button push before sending a button push. So the player is simply say hitting the c key over and over again and the script is remembering how long to pause and what note to play, but the player is not doing several things with a single press of a button.

Char Warrior lvl 80 [NITE] [RO] NSP

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Posted by: Wonderly.1324

Wonderly.1324

I see your point about bach. I just hope new people who pick up an instrument from the gemstore don’t just think it is alright to macro any song since I’m sure it is the same thing as using a bot.

Honestly, I’m not sure, but I’m going to ask Customer Support about it. The fact is, we have a policy against automating gameplay through the use of macros or bots. But music? I just don’t know if the rules about third-party programs extend to non-game-related situations.

I currently do not use macros to play songs on my in-game instruments, because I thought that was a bannable offense. Please let me know if it’s allowed, because if it is, I will probably do it a lot more often (to get use out of my purchases, not to be petty and ask for in game donations), and I will probably purchase more instruments as well.

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Posted by: Falco.9250

Falco.9250

I’ll never understand why people would use macros or why people would ever want something like Lord of the Rings Online’s godawful abc system. It makes the whole thing so pointless. You might as well just download and listen to a midi file.

Because it sounds better than a midi, and you can compose your own music, expressing your creativity. As well, you can throw concerts in-game. I have some pretty fond memories of Weatherstock and a few lesser concerts.

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Posted by: eugenics.2561

eugenics.2561

I currently do not use macros to play songs on my in-game instruments, because I thought that was a bannable offense. Please let me know if it’s allowed, because if it is, I will probably do it a lot more often (to get use out of my purchases, not to be petty and ask for in game donations), and I will probably purchase more instruments as well.

god. the ingame music is one of the last things i still think is fun. the day they start actively allowing those bullkitten scripts is the day i quit.

also lol at the person saying that thr abc system gave room for any creativity whatsoever,. in all the years i played lotro i never heard anyone play a song that wasn’t a tired transcription (i bet you didn’t either). that’s about as creative as painting by numbers

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Posted by: Kasima.8143

Kasima.8143

If playing the instruments wasn’t this clunky with the cast times and delays and whatnot, I’m pretty sure there would be less macro players.

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Posted by: RoyalPredator.9163

RoyalPredator.9163

I see your point about bach. I just hope new people who pick up an instrument from the gemstore don’t just think it is alright to macro any song since I’m sure it is the same thing as using a bot.

Honestly, I’m not sure, but I’m going to ask Customer Support about it. The fact is, we have a policy against automating gameplay through the use of macros or bots. But music? I just don’t know if the rules about third-party programs extend to non-game-related situations.

Honestly, when these instruments were designed, it wasn’t really in focus that most of players are not skillful enough to squeez enjoyable tunes out of it.
Discussed Many times, but yet, for You;

  1. Pre-Tabs option would really make the instruments useable for anyone.
  2. Macros are not allowed. This one does not harm, but its more like a technical/moral question. So great that offical GW2 keyboards were advertised with “excellent macro management”
  3. GW2 could have macro-maker within itself if it forces to equip an instrument – so can’t use to exploit.
  4. and finally… Instruments are way more expensive than they should be IMO.
Game Designer || iREVOLUTION.Design \\
“A man chooses; a slave obeys.” | “Want HardMode? Play Ranger!”

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Posted by: Nathanael.4398

Nathanael.4398

I personally play real life instruments but i can’t play ingame instruments with the sound enabled! Why is that?
Every time i pick a note for example with the harp, the acoustic feedback occurs 0,3-0,5 seconds AFTER i pressed it and it feels very unnatural.
If i speed the song up and press a note every 0,3 seconds for example i always hear the previous note and it is so distracting that i have to stop it everytime…
So the only solution so far is: Disable the sound and then play the melody in your head and hope it sounds right for the others around you.. or slow it down…
Can you please disable the acoustic feedback delay on the client-side for us?
This would help everyone

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Posted by: Melvin.3295

Melvin.3295

I see your point about bach. I just hope new people who pick up an instrument from the gemstore don’t just think it is alright to macro any song since I’m sure it is the same thing as using a bot.

Honestly, I’m not sure, but I’m going to ask Customer Support about it. The fact is, we have a policy against automating gameplay through the use of macros or bots. But music? I just don’t know if the rules about third-party programs extend to non-game-related situations.

Gaile Gray, did you ever find out how this is judged?

Kaname Tanuma – 80 Necromancer
Far Shiverpeaks – Bubblegum Dragons [GUM]

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

Considering music-macros could be used in music-centric mini-games like Bell Choir, it does not seem like it would be fair to allow macros for music-only, as that could (and should) be considered game-play, as well. Especially when the player is rewarded for a better score.

Just my two coppers….

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Posted by: Licennia.4783

Licennia.4783

Every single person I’ve seen use the harp in the last few days has been using a script. Some of them are even citing Gaile’s response as Arenanet allowing macros. Ugh, I hate this game and its players so much. ; – ;

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Posted by: Nathanael.4398

Nathanael.4398

Every single person I’ve seen use the harp in the last few days has been using a script. Some of them are even citing Gaile’s response as Arenanet allowing macros. Ugh, I hate this game and its players so much. ; – ;

What about moving away from them and don’t listen if you don’t like it? It’s not difficult to do so…
Also if they refer to this post Gaile wrote everyone would see that it is not the case.
On top of that: Can a macro user play a duet with harp and lute? i guess not…

The sad truth is that the ingame instruments got a delay in sound on the client side.
Isn’t this fixable just for the player who plays it?

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Posted by: Encoded Rig.7903

Encoded Rig.7903

I see your point about bach. I just hope new people who pick up an instrument from the gemstore don’t just think it is alright to macro any song since I’m sure it is the same thing as using a bot.

Honestly, I’m not sure, but I’m going to ask Customer Support about it. The fact is, we have a policy against automating gameplay through the use of macros or bots. But music? I just don’t know if the rules about third-party programs extend to non-game-related situations.

Really? You do realize that people are earning gold this way? They sit around and play a macro and set it on loop and go to bed. They wake up with whatever people donated to them because they thought they were playing music with their own hands like a street performer.

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Posted by: Nathanael.4398

Nathanael.4398

I see your point about bach. I just hope new people who pick up an instrument from the gemstore don’t just think it is alright to macro any song since I’m sure it is the same thing as using a bot.

Honestly, I’m not sure, but I’m going to ask Customer Support about it. The fact is, we have a policy against automating gameplay through the use of macros or bots. But music? I just don’t know if the rules about third-party programs extend to non-game-related situations.

Really? You do realize that people are earning gold this way? They sit around and play a macro and set it on loop and go to bed. They wake up with whatever people donated to them because they thought they were playing music with their own hands like a street performer.

Nonsense! Do you really think people do this for earning money?
There are faster ways to aquire gold for example by completing dungeons or crafting…

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Posted by: Bebunw.8137

Bebunw.8137

Ban players for sharing musics is very rude if that might to happen

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Posted by: eugenics.2561

eugenics.2561

i hope they do start punishing people for it eventually but probably not. i’ve reported you every time i’ve seen you fire up one of those ahk scripts in divinity, bebunw, and you still seem to be around

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Posted by: Licennia.4783

Licennia.4783

Nonsense! Do you really think people do this for earning money?
There are faster ways to aquire gold for example by completing dungeons or crafting…

This is absolutely not true! Just now, I saw someone named Lej La use macros he got off of that-one-site to scam money from people while claiming he was really playing. He’s only one out of many I’ve seen in the last few weeks (I wonder what caused this suden surge of macroers :s) If people have to use those macros, I wish they’d at least stop lying about it so it doesn’t completely mess with people’s idea of what is actually possible with the instruments. Ughhh.

(edited by Licennia.4783)

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Posted by: Bebunw.8137

Bebunw.8137

From my point of view it’s like musicians walking on the street and they want to destroy every music player they see (smart phones, flash player…) , that’s nonsense and if players can’t recognize real musician from macro that’s just sad :p but like nathanel said currently there are faster ways to get money, Do you really think homeless people are playing music on the street to become rich ?

(edited by Bebunw.8137)

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Posted by: Licennia.4783

Licennia.4783

Idk what you’re even getting at with any of those analogies. :s They make absolutely no sense – just like Gaile’s. It’s really more like someone showing up at a talent show with a recording of Chopin’s Fantasie Impromptu, while sitting at a piano pretending to play and taking all the praise for it. And of course there are other ways to make money – why even bring that up? Fact is people still do it. It’s probably more for the attention seeking and fake adoration than the actual gold, but either way it’s dumb, and it’s ruining an enjoyable part of the game for a lot of people.

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Posted by: Toroxus.9256

Toroxus.9256

I fail to see how someone using a macro to play an instrument detracts from people who do not use macros to play instruments. I play the flute in real life and the instruments in gw2. I feel no resentment to people who use macros because if that’s fun for them, good for them. Not to mention, constructing a macro isn’t the easiest thing to do if you can’t play the song yourself.

To that end, people playing macros are still playing music, adding atmosphere, exposing people to new songs and beautiful music, etc. If you’re really so bent out of shape about macro instruments, you must really be broken about how the macro music of this game, guild wars 2, is sold for real dollars. IRC, almost every song on the guild wars 2 sound track was made from a macrod set of instruments, not at all unlike people standing in LA letting their computer play Canon in C.

I think guild war’s music is music, even if it’s macro’d, and, for the same reason, I also think player’s music is music, even if it’s macro’d as well.

I play my harp and flute every day in divinity’s reach. I use sheet music to play. What do I do when someone rolls up with a macro and blows new away in quality? I sit down and listen to the pleasant music.This isn’t some contest, no pride involved. I was there so people could have nice music, and now someone else is doing it in my place. Playing music isn’t about who has the longest flute, it’s about entertaining people. And macros, sheet music, tabbing, and free-style can all accomplish that goal.

(edited by Toroxus.9256)

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Posted by: Nathanael.4398

Nathanael.4398

I fail to see how someone using a macro to play an instrument detracts from people who do not use macros to play instruments. I play the flute in real life and the instruments in gw2. I feel no resentment to people who use macros because if that’s fun for them, good for them. Not to mention, constructing a macro isn’t the easiest thing to do if you can’t play the song yourself.

To that end, people playing macros are still playing music, adding atmosphere, exposing people to new songs and beautiful music, etc. If you’re really so bent out of shape about macro instruments, you must really be broken about how the macro music of this game, guild wars 2, is sold for real dollars. IRC, almost every song on the guild wars 2 sound track was made from a macrod set of instruments, not at all unlike people standing in LA letting their computer play Canon in C.

I think guild war’s music is music, even if it’s macro’d, and, for the same reason, I also think player’s music is music, even if it’s macro’d as well.

I play my harp and flute every day in divinity’s reach. I use sheet music to play. What do I do when someone rolls up with a macro and blows new away in quality? I sit down and listen to the pleasant music.This isn’t some contest, no pride involved. I was there so people could have nice music, and now someone else is doing it in my place. Playing music isn’t about who has the longest flute, it’s about entertaining people. And macros, sheet music, tabbing, and free-style can all accomplish that goal.

Finally someone understands it, too
I 100% agree with you!

Btw. here is my suggestion for better instrument handling:
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/audio/Enhancement-of-music-instruments/first#post4537043

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Posted by: Bebunw.8137

Bebunw.8137

Idk what you’re even getting at with any of those analogies. :s They make absolutely no sense – just like Gaile’s. It’s really more like someone showing up at a talent show with a recording of Chopin’s Fantasie Impromptu, while sitting at a piano pretending to play and taking all the praise for it.

This isn’t some contest, no pride involved.

That’s exactly that and when you said macros ruining this part of the game, i’m not agree with that, you would be surprised to know the big part of players who currently like hear these.

Fact is people still do it. It’s probably more for the attention seeking and fake adoration than the actual gold

The way i see it s you who seems to need more attention than them. You come to whine here because you can’t be the best music player around heh?

Ugh, I hate this game and its players so much. ; – ;

Maybe you should try solo games, mmos are about sharing moments with people not contest of show off all days.

(edited by Bebunw.8137)

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Posted by: Gaile Gray

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Gaile Gray

ArenaNet Communications Manager

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Because they do not give a player a gameplay advantage, Customer Support does not intend to take action on people who play instruments using macros. We don’t recommend any. We don’t support them. If a macro causes your refrigerator to explode, we’re not going to get involved. But they are not against the rules, because the rules pertain to gameplay advantages, such as faster kills or more effective defense.

Gaile Gray
Communications Manager
Guild & Fansite Relations; In-Game Events
ArenaNet

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Posted by: Cody Crichton.7516

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Cody Crichton.7516

Sound Designer

Next

Hello instrument fans. I’m here to chime in on what it means to perform instruments given Customer Service’s stance which Gaile was kind enough to investigate and share in this thread.

First, I’m aware that many players feel very strongly that we should either be for or against allowing players to use automation to play their instruments. Personally, I think that instruments are simply for making music, for entertainment. Some people will gravitate toward live performance, and some will gravitate toward automation, and these are both options for personal preference. The desired end result is that players are given an opportunity to have fun, whether it’s with the process of making music or with listening to others make music, or both.

While it may go without saying, I’ll say it anyway: Players who have the dedication, the skill, and the patience to be able to perform songs manually given the constraints of the instrument system, they are to be commended for their efforts—especially when it comes to performing manually as a group/ensemble. I personally don’t think the system is as easy or intuitive as it could be, and those who make it look easy, they’re real champs who deserve copious amounts of praise.

For some, the barrier between having an instrument and making music is overly daunting, and there are other methods out there to simply play a song. I think it’s generally a good thing to have more music in Tyria for people—performers and listeners alike—to enjoy, by whichever means is most desirable to the performer.

Feel free to join the discussion with your thoughts, I’m sure you’ve got ‘em!

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

Keyboard envy is bad.

I don’t care how it’s played. I myself play things manually, but could care less if someone else is using a macro for music. At the end of the day its about enjoyment, whether its your own or the people you are putting on the show for.

That said this whole notion of legitimacy/legality could easily be solved by providing an in game track listing for players to create and store their own pieces. Then 3rd party tools wouldn’t be required or an issue.

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Posted by: BlueSylvari.5162

BlueSylvari.5162

I am sad now. All the effort to learn how to effectively play with my friends will now be eaten by macro using players. Officialy. Very sad. In this case, is there way i may get refund of all my gems that i have bought my lute, harp and drum with?

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Posted by: Nathanael.4398

Nathanael.4398

I am sad now. All the effort to learn how to effectively play with my friends will now be eaten by macro using players.

You can use a script/macros for duets? Thats new to me.
There are many musican guilds who can perform such a feat which a “macro user” can’t ever perform.
Also IF this would be banable:
The ressources for investigating accounts is limited. Do you really want to ban real players who want to perform music instead of bots who farm/abuse gamemechanics (example: flying in WvW, farming 24/7, pvp afk with just movement)?

That said this whole notion of legitimacy/legality could easily be solved by providing an in game track listing for players to create and store their own pieces. Then 3rd party tools wouldn’t be required or an issue.

Thats a great idea! I picked in up on the thread i opened recently!
You can find it here:
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/audio/Enhancement-of-music-instruments/first#post4537043

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Posted by: Wonderly.1324

Wonderly.1324

Because they do not give a player a gameplay advantage, Customer Support does not intend to take action on people who play instruments using macros. We don’t recommend any. We don’t support them. If a macro causes your refrigerator to explode, we’re not going to get involved. But they are not against the rules, because the rules pertain to gameplay advantages, such as faster kills or more effective defense.

I can personally gaurentee that you will see an increase in instrument sales. In fact, I think I’m going to go ahead and pull out my credit card for the whole set now.

But back on topic; I have the utmost respect and praise for those who can play music without a macro, even if they make occasional mistakes. If I buy a CD mp3, it’s not because I want to emulate or mock the artist, but because I want to appreciate their talent and their song even if I can’t perform it myself or hear them live.

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

I’ve got nothing against those that wish to use macros, except when using them in places like the Bell Choir mini-game.

I’m sure to lose every single time if someone has a macro. Ah well, it’s just a gift or whatever they will be giving this year. =/

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Posted by: Melvin.3295

Melvin.3295

I honestly don’t even know why I even bought the ingame instruments anymore after this statement. It’s like going to a shop, buying a guitar. Then going out in the streets and playing music through a cd player instead while holding your guitar and hoping to get praise for your work..

Kaname Tanuma – 80 Necromancer
Far Shiverpeaks – Bubblegum Dragons [GUM]

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Posted by: Licennia.4783

Licennia.4783

Well, there goes my last bit of fun in this game. Heartbroken.

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Posted by: Melvin.3295

Melvin.3295

There should atleast be some huge icon above people their heads saying they are using a macro or some kind of indication that it is just a automated script looping instead of an actual performance. I also do not see at all how the ingame music playing scene is any less gameplay then any other part of the game. Is it possible to get refunds on gemstore items, I didn’t buy 4 instruments to be outplayed by someone who can play the melody and bass at the some time wich normal people would have to make a duet for wich requires actual timing through delay.

Kaname Tanuma – 80 Necromancer
Far Shiverpeaks – Bubblegum Dragons [GUM]

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Posted by: Gaile Gray

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Gaile Gray

ArenaNet Communications Manager

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It seems to me that people using a macro would have a limited playlist, right? So those who learn to play different tunes, or work in concert with other musicians, would still offer a completely different piece of music from those relying on the macro.

Perhaps I’m mistaken, but does that make sense?

Gaile Gray
Communications Manager
Guild & Fansite Relations; In-Game Events
ArenaNet

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Posted by: Melvin.3295

Melvin.3295

It seems to me that people using a macro would have a limited playlist, right? So those who learn to play different tunes, or work in concert with other musicians, would still offer a completely different piece of music from those relying on the macro.

Perhaps I’m mistaken, but does that make sense?

Well to me it just seems trying to outrun the macromusic sharing site while eventually were going to run out of pieces that are not on there. For example the guild I play music with [Cmaj] has played pompeii in a duet for quiet some time. Guess what theres now a sheet of music on the macro site for anyone to grab to play SOLO bass and melody. You just want us to keep trying to find random songs that aren’t on there untill we eventually either run out of ideas or give up. I mean all the popular songs are going to be on there for sure.

Kaname Tanuma – 80 Necromancer
Far Shiverpeaks – Bubblegum Dragons [GUM]

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Posted by: Chameleon Dude.1564

Chameleon Dude.1564

An officially supported in-game system (such as .abc style seen in other games) seems like the best solution to me. Greater access to automatic playing for all (we really shouldn’t need a third party program for this sort of thing, should we?), it’s simple to use and even easy enough to create new song files.

As for those who want to play without assistance: in games with this feature, I’ve never felt like my ability to play the music manually wasn’t worth it. People even hooked up instruments to their computers to perform live shows!

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Posted by: BilboBaggins.5620

BilboBaggins.5620

I can tell you that I have every instrument offered in the game. I love the sounds of them! Now that I’m aware that playlists are out there I fully intend to macro some songs I like. I will be doing this for my listening pleasure only! I’m not a gifted musician but I really want to hear a particular piece of music that Captain Picard plays in ST:TNG on the GW2 flute!

If I am ever offered a tip while I’m playing music I will refuse it since I’m not actually playing, and I tip my hat to those of you talented enough to play these instruments manually, but do you really believe I shouldn’t be allowed to enjoy these instruments too?

Again, I do believe that anyone with a conscience should refuse tips when playing scripted music, but I don’t think it should be a ban-able offense.

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Posted by: Exeon.4358

Exeon.4358

As far as I’m aware Macro’s have only been against the rules when it was giving players an unfair advantage over other players, I believe a lot of players use autoclickers to use Luck for instance

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Posted by: Silverdisc.1305

Silverdisc.1305

Hey there, this is Silverdisc, I’m one of the founders of [Cmaj]. We’re a macro-free musician guild on the EU servers. You might know us from our performances at the Aurora Glade Harvest Festival, The King And Queens Horrorween 2014 and some YouTube videos (including the Ocarina of Time Medley).

I personally don’t agree with this decision at all. Let me explain:

Many of us play Guild Wars 2, only because we enjoy making music together. We help each other get better, write tabs, perform at events and make videos. We do it because we enjoy it: it’s unique to be able to play music together with someone miles away, and it’s a lot of fun. I made a lot of friends playing music in Guild Wars 2.

We’re always trying to improve. We practice a lot, try to play with more and more players, and try to make our tabs sound better. And the fun thing is, you don’t need to be a gifted musician in real life to have fun playing in Guild Wars 2. I barely played piano before picking up the harp in GW2: it actually got me more motivated to learn playing piano.

The reason we dislike macro’s, is because when someone uses macro’s, it destroys our motivation to get better. It makes us feel bad, because all those hours we spent practicing start to feel like they were in vain. A macro users will always be able to play more complicated stuff then someone playing themselves (that’s because of the way octave switching works and because of the slight delay when playing a note). No matter how hard we try, we can’t reach their level.

Imagine this: you worked on a song for quite some time. You decide to publish the tabs on the internet for other people to enjoy. You’re in Divinity’s Reach and you play it. Someone tells you they really enjoyed it, and it makes you feel happy. That’s one of the reasons we play music: we don’t only enjoy it ourselves, other people enjoy it too.

Then, someone with a macro shows up, and plays your exact song, but with 100% perfect timing, and a bunch of chords added that are almost impossible to play by hand. Even though I know that the other person uses a macro, it still makes me feel.. I don’t know, disappointed? I worked really hard to play that song, and that other person pressed one button. Yet he is playing better than me, and people are enjoying his music more.

This happens almost daily. We actually had to lock our Google Doc with tabs, because, even though we asked people not to macro our songs, it kept happening. You publish a nice tab you’ve worked on for a long time? I guarantee you that it will be macro’ed within a couple of days. You do the work; other people steal the show. It doesn’t matter how much we practice: we will never be able to reach the level of macro players. And that makes you want to stop trying.

Now, some people have argued this: “Playing music is about having fun yourself! It’s not about impressing people!” Well, the thing is, it kind of is about impressing people, yeah. It’s fun to be able to play something, sure. But a large part of the fun is that people will enjoy hearing what you play. That’s a part of what music is about.

When macro’s are allowed, a large part of the fun is lost. The part where you go to DR, play what you have practiced for hours, and the part where people tell you they like it. And that’s one of the most fun parts: both for us, and for many people listening.

I once asked some musicians what they thought about macro’s. I recall that a member of the Traveling Bobo’s told me: “If everyone uses macro’s, then what is the point? Nobody will stop to listen.”

And that is exactly why we dislike macro’s. If everyone else in the world got a free Twilight, would you still grind for one? Many people wouldn’t. The process of getting Twilight might be fun, but it doesn’t feel like you accomplished something. Everyone else has it anyway. That’s how we feel when macro users play songs.

Another musician I know had just finished a duet tab. She had to record two takes: one of her playing the lower notes, and one of her playing the upper notes. Then she put them together and it sounded amazing. She worked on it for quite a while and put it on YouTube. Not very long after, someone had turned it into a one-player macro, and she ran into loads of people who played the entire thing simultaneously, solo. She has since quit playing music in GW2.

Macro’s were a daily annoyance to us before this post. I, honestly, would’ve preferred ArenaNet to remain silent on this subject. This post will create an enormous amount of macro players, which will, and has already, made people quit, including many of my friends. I am not planning to quit, and I’ll keep having fun playing myself, but it will not be the same.

On behalf of many members of [Cmaj], I ask you to reconsider.

(edited by Silverdisc.1305)

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Posted by: proteininja.5891

proteininja.5891

I created gw2mb.com, so I feel a certain obligation to weigh in after reading the posts here.

I spent 6 months of my free time creating that website.

I didn’t do it to undermine people who play manually.

I did it because I love music.

I wanted a place for people to share the music that they create.

It hurts a little to read these posts about people who purposefully insulate themselves from the site and don’t post their compositions there. Who cares if somebody uses your song in the form of a macro? It should be about sharing and spreading music throughout the game.

I hope the talented individuals who play manually will eventually come to see things my way. Because if they do and they post their compositions on my website it will benefit everyone.

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Posted by: Toroxus.9256

Toroxus.9256

Silverdisk, you say you enjoy making music and improving at that. Because you failed to connect the dots in your post, explain to us how your desires are undone by other people’s musical skill or therefore lack of.

About halfway through your post, you admit that it’s more about a contest of impressing people, as opposed to what your introduction stated about improvement and music. I’m sorry to break this to you, but people will listen to music if it’s good. The public does not care about the effort or difficulty as being paramount to the quality of the actual audio.

You’re typing on a forum of a game whose soundtrack was almost entirely made by macros. This conversation is made possible partially by the implementation of the very point I’m trying to make. The guild wars 2 soundtrack wouldn’t be possible if your claims about motivation and macros were truthful.

Like I said above, I play the harp daily in divinity’s reach. Of the two most requested songs, one was originally composed by a live instrument, the other was composed by a macro. The public doesn’t care, and neither do I because the songs are great songs.

Get over it. Really. To avoid the language filter, your argument boils down to a simple kitten analogy: you claim the lack of motivation to have a kitten because there are notable kitten breeders who do things differently than you do.

What I’m really trying to say, is that you’re so bent out of shape about something so stupid and so trivial that you willingly choose to affect you in fictional ways to try to drive home some ridiculous elitist best-in-show kitten contest. You need to practice what you preach about improving and playing music with your friends.

I hate to say this speculation, but it could be possible that you’re scapegoating macros for the benefit your self esteem.

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Posted by: Encoded Rig.7903

Encoded Rig.7903

Hi this is Aytanhi an officer and founding member of the macro-free musical duet/orchestral guild Musician’s Guild of Tyria (MGT) from Blackgate NA,

I had a macro player interrupt a duet with a friend and then continuously brag to me that he earned over 100 gold in donations simply by afking and playing instruments with macros all while calling the people who donated him gold gullible fools. Do you really think that macros for music give no unfair advantage to people playing the game legitimately?

But that’s not the worse part. It’s worse when some macro player comes and interrupt what we are playing with a full blown macro simply because we can no longer play legitimate music with other players because someone’s macro is interrupting our cues and tempos and they can keep on continuing to play without making a mistake.

Or when someone who accuses you of using macros intentionally comes over to spam notes all off of the basis of trying to interrupt your macro song even though you are playing the instrument legitimately by hand, and this has happened numerous times.

We have had many members lose interest in making and writing music because of macros. We even made our guild’s music sheet private because of what happened to our sister guild Cmaj in the EU.

Or even worse, when people start heckling you because you accuse a macro music player who lies about playing their music by hand and their nearby listeners and donors say that you are jealous because you’re not as good as a musician as the macro user.

Needless to say, if you think macros convey no advantage in this game, you need to reconsider your policy even when it comes to musical instruments.

Musician’s Guild of Tyria (MGT)

(edited by Encoded Rig.7903)