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Posted by: gamefreak.5673

gamefreak.5673

I completed this for 4 of my buddies in real life. I had to use my own laptop though to do it. For whatever reason there was always this small lag i couldn’t adjust to when using there desktop’s. I showed them in person that the camera just didnt turn fast enough to allow me to make some of the jumps on to gears and beams I needed to make while using there machines. Still not sure what caused it for them but there machines are much better then my laptop is according to specs just something was not causing the camera to move right. I suspect alot of players had this issue.

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Posted by: Unknown.2796

Unknown.2796

Tried 4 or 5 times, then said “nope, I’m’a farm some more candy corns.” Been happy since.

When I made this map I was HOPING that people who aren’t into jumping would do exactly this. They’d see a fun Halloween looking environment, maybe get to the first chest and snag a goodie, then be on their merry way. I see now it was a mistake to make the hardest jumping challenge in the game part of an in-your-face update like a holiday event. I’m not going to stop making difficult stuff like this, they just won’t be so prominent in the future. I honestly hate making people upset and have a very high level of empathy. So it’s been hard hearing all the people that are so angry, frustrated and sad because of something I’ve made. But it’s just another lesson learned.

I think the bigger problem was the achievement, people felt it was a must to complete it (I think that was the achievement at first), I totally loved the challenge and I can’t wait to see more. Well, I can wait but I rather not. Also, do you accept suggestions for puzzles? lol.. can’t hurt to try and ask, right… :p

Location, location, location.

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Posted by: WereDragon.6083

WereDragon.6083

Tried 4 or 5 times, then said “nope, I’m’a farm some more candy corns.” Been happy since.

When I made this map I was HOPING that people who aren’t into jumping would do exactly this. They’d see a fun Halloween looking environment, maybe get to the first chest and snag a goodie, then be on their merry way. I see now it was a mistake to make the hardest jumping challenge in the game part of an in-your-face update like a holiday event. I’m not going to stop making difficult stuff like this, they just won’t be so prominent in the future. I honestly hate making people upset and have a very high level of empathy. So it’s been hard hearing all the people that are so angry, frustrated and sad because of something I’ve made. But it’s just another lesson learned.

Josh the puzzle was amazing. Maybe a tad too hard for some people but still pretty kitten epic I could see a few things that I would personally change.

But seriously dude. A big trend on this forums, and it’s come from the other fisher-price toddler my first MMO’s i’m looking at you warcraft. People seem to think they’re entitled to everything even if they can’t make the grade

Protip, as an example not everyone can be an Olympic athlete.

Now if the jumping puzzle was required for the meta achieve I would have been PISSED but it wasn’t, it was designed hard yet fun…

As I said before would have adjusted a couple things but in all honesty don’t stop doing what you do. =D

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Posted by: Josh Foreman

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Josh Foreman

Environment Design Specialist

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I think it is unfortunate that they design an event that puts you at a disadvantage based on choices you made during character creation.

I agree that this was unfortunate. But it was not intentional. When I designed the map I thought we were going to be able to have single-player instances.

Arenanet is showing its bias and bigotry against large characters, by putting in an event which results in large characters, (Norn and Char) becoming the targets of derision and scorn because the environment of the jumping puzzle puts them at a disadvantage and obscures the puzzle for others.

I do, truly feel bad about this. From the ground up, we designed our game mechanics to encourage cooperation and altruism in the community, and this JP’s mechanics broke that design aesthetic. It was an accident, but I still accept responsibility for it.

A good game designer would not design a dungeon that required you to be a certain height to shoot over an obstacle, but Arenanet seems to have no compunction telling Norn and Char tough luck when it comes to tight spaces and jumping puzzles. New players ought to be warned that the camera completely bugs out in tight spaces for large characters, and the large character models completely obscure the path in jumping puzzles.

Well, ideally we will continue tweaking our camera until this is not a problem. Throughout the development of GW2 I was very purposefully pushing the boundaries of spatial layout and mechanics, because I believe you can’t know what your limits are until you pass them. One of the themes I tried to explore in a couple places was claustrophobia. (Specifically in Troll End, which I consider to be my worst JP) I always play as the largest male Norn in these areas while I’m building and testing them. One of the reasons for pushing the limits like this is that our engine is malleable because we are an MMO, so we are always tinkering, and it’s possible to push the direction of the engine in new and interesting ways, but only if there are compelling mechanics to justify those changes. I’m one of the guys always pushing and pushing to try to discover new compelling mechanics. That means a lot of experiments. And the nature of experiments is that some fail. But I assure you, at no point have I, or anyone here, built something that totally sucks for one of the races and said, “Well, screw THOSE guys! I don’t care about Norn!”

As long as jumping puzzles are optional, that’s fine, but requiring one as they did with the Mad King fight crosses the line. If they are going to require jumping puzzles to complete regular content, then they should fix things so all players have an equal chance.

I did not consider the MK boss map as a jumping puzzle. All you are doing is dropping down. And I made it so there are MANY paths down.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

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Posted by: Stormkitten.8219

Stormkitten.8219

I couldn’t do it. But it was an awesome piece of design.
I would have loved to have a non-timed, no-loot, no achievement version to play around in for the people who can’t do the timed one.

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Posted by: Bonefield.9813

Bonefield.9813

Tried 4 or 5 times, then said “nope, I’m’a farm some more candy corns.” Been happy since.

When I made this map I was HOPING that people who aren’t into jumping would do exactly this. They’d see a fun Halloween looking environment, maybe get to the first chest and snag a goodie, then be on their merry way. I see now it was a mistake to make the hardest jumping challenge in the game part of an in-your-face update like a holiday event. I’m not going to stop making difficult stuff like this, they just won’t be so prominent in the future. I honestly hate making people upset and have a very high level of empathy. So it’s been hard hearing all the people that are so angry, frustrated and sad because of something I’ve made. But it’s just another lesson learned.

Aw, man. I think it was great as part of the event, and I gave up on it (I did want to try it some more, but the lure of farming was too much for me). No matter where you put this stuff, some people are going to be upset. I’m glad to hear you don’t plan to stop making stuff like this, but I think the way it was implemented was perfect. You didn’t make it required for the overall title, and you didn’t make the rewards so good that people would feel like they were missing out tremendously by not completing it.

People who aren’t into jumping puzzles should have backed out when they realized they weren’t having fun, but unfortunately MMO players—and gamers in general—are sort of conditioned to ram their heads against everything for completion’s sake. The concept of doing things purely for the fun of it is kind of lost in this genre, because there’s this sense that if you can’t do something, there’s a problem either with the player or the content. And nobody wants to think the problem lies with them.

People complained about the clues for the scavenger hunt, too, but those who are good at and enjoy that kind of puzzle were able to decipher them and make guides. People who are good at math help test builds and gather information. People who are good at playing the economy often teach others. And people who are good at jumping puzzles are always stopping to lead others through, or making video guides to help, or sharing solutions. That different parts of this game are geared to different types of players is one of its greatest strengths, I think, because if you’re not great at one thing, chances are you’re great at something else. Sometimes people have to take responsibility for their own enjoyment, even in a game.

I saw the clock tower as being the GW2 version of a haunted house. You know, I don’t do those things, because I have the kind of active imagination born of years of watching The X-Files as a child that convinces me I’m a horror movie victim waiting to happen on a regular basis. I will, despite being an otherwise rational person, sleep with the lights on if I’ve been dumb enough to read creepy stories before bed. So when a haunted house advertises itself as being FIVE FLOORS OF TERROR! YOU’LL SCREAM YOURSELF TO DEATH! I go on the hayride and enjoy the twinkly lights. Similarly, when all of the NPCs standing around the outside of a jumping puzzle are warning me that I’m likely to die, I assume the point is that it’s supposed to be hard.

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Posted by: gadenp.7586

gadenp.7586

I couldn’t do it. But it was an awesome piece of design.
I would have loved to have a non-timed, no-loot, no achievement version to play around in for the people who can’t do the timed one.

Totally would also love to have that option, for the more noob jumpers. So that we can at least try and experience what those pro do professional so darn well.

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Posted by: Bri.8354

Bri.8354

Tried 4 or 5 times, then said “nope, I’m’a farm some more candy corns.” Been happy since.

When I made this map I was HOPING that people who aren’t into jumping would do exactly this. They’d see a fun Halloween looking environment, maybe get to the first chest and snag a goodie, then be on their merry way. I see now it was a mistake to make the hardest jumping challenge in the game part of an in-your-face update like a holiday event. I’m not going to stop making difficult stuff like this, they just won’t be so prominent in the future. I honestly hate making people upset and have a very high level of empathy. So it’s been hard hearing all the people that are so angry, frustrated and sad because of something I’ve made. But it’s just another lesson learned.

In my opinion, the only mistake that was made was not enough clarification that the clock tower was completely optional and was not necessary for the Halloween achievement.

You did an awesome job designing this and it was one of the best parts of this event. This tower provided a challenge I found even more exciting and enjoyable than the most difficult dungeons. I even tried it a few more times after I completed it just for fun.

Keep up the good work and I look forward to more content like this in the future.

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Posted by: Legicon.7952

Legicon.7952

The tower itself isn’t so hard tbh. It’s dealing with the other players and waiting. I waited til everyone had left the overflow so i had tower to myself and a couple guildies. Was much easier and I didn’t feel as rushed.
I don’t think easier puzzles are needed. Just don’t make 15 people at the same time do them. Gets way to crowded on areas that require precision

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Posted by: Latorn.4209

Latorn.4209

As long as jumping puzzles are optional, that’s fine, but requiring one as they did with the Mad King fight crosses the line. If they are going to require jumping puzzles to complete regular content, then they should fix things so all players have an equal chance.

I did not consider the MK boss map as a jumping puzzle. All you are doing is dropping down. And I made it so there are MANY paths down.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

Noooo! Don’t change what you’re doing! The mad king mini-dungeon layout was fantastic, really spiced it up with the small amount of jumping required. Think of how boring it would be if you just went in and fought him on a flat level :/

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Posted by: Bonefield.9813

Bonefield.9813

As long as jumping puzzles are optional, that’s fine, but requiring one as they did with the Mad King fight crosses the line. If they are going to require jumping puzzles to complete regular content, then they should fix things so all players have an equal chance.

I did not consider the MK boss map as a jumping puzzle. All you are doing is dropping down. And I made it so there are MANY paths down.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

Noooo! Don’t change what you’re doing! The mad king mini-dungeon layout was fantastic, really spiced it up with the small amount of jumping required. Think of how boring it would be if you just went in and fought him on a flat level :/

Yeah, I enjoyed the jumping in the MK dungeon a lot. In fact, the whole map was just awesome. One of the coolest instances I’ve been in in a long time; it reminded me of some of the Chains of Promathia content in FFXI, and that’s pretty high praise coming from me!

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Posted by: zbrkesbr.4173

zbrkesbr.4173

When I made this map I was HOPING that people who aren’t into jumping would do exactly this. They’d see a fun Halloween looking environment, maybe get to the first chest and snag a goodie, then be on their merry way. I see now it was a mistake to make the hardest jumping challenge in the game part of an in-your-face update like a holiday event. I’m not going to stop making difficult stuff like this, they just won’t be so prominent in the future. I honestly hate making people upset and have a very high level of empathy. So it’s been hard hearing all the people that are so angry, frustrated and sad because of something I’ve made. But it’s just another lesson learned.

Good work!! Keep it up!
I want to see even more challenging puzzles than Clock Tower in the future.

War doesn’t determine who is right, only who is left.

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Posted by: Josh Foreman

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Josh Foreman

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As long as jumping puzzles are optional, that’s fine, but requiring one as they did with the Mad King fight crosses the line. If they are going to require jumping puzzles to complete regular content, then they should fix things so all players have an equal chance.

I did not consider the MK boss map as a jumping puzzle. All you are doing is dropping down. And I made it so there are MANY paths down.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

Noooo! Don’t change what you’re doing! The mad king mini-dungeon layout was fantastic, really spiced it up with the small amount of jumping required. Think of how boring it would be if you just went in and fought him on a flat level :/

Oh I wasn’t saying I was changing anything. I was just seriously surprised that anyone would consider the verticality in that map a ‘jumping puzzle’.

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Posted by: WereDragon.6083

WereDragon.6083

We need difficult content take a good long look at the crap-pile WoW is now after fisher pricing it.

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Posted by: Varl.3269

Varl.3269

I think you did an excellent job on both the JP and the MK Map. If the JP had been instanced for single-players or small parties like the story missions are then 90% of the frustration players had would be gone, assuming it’s not just a red herring. Sad to hear the chances of a wintersday JP are low. I think some neat things could be done with avalanches and sliding down snow slopes and such.

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Posted by: Rajani Isa.6294

Rajani Isa.6294

Arenanet is showing its bias and bigotry against large characters, by putting in an event which results in large characters, (Norn and Char) becoming the targets of derision and scorn because the environment of the jumping puzzle puts them at a disadvantage and obscures the puzzle for others.

I do, truly feel bad about this. From the ground up, we designed our game mechanics to encourage cooperation and altruism in the community, and this JP’s mechanics broke that design aesthetic. It was an accident, but I still accept responsibility for it.

Don’t get too hung up on this – a good portion of it was the players being selfish @#%R.

Just try and keep these things out of events – when they are this hard, and time limted (and this one double so since it was on a timer) that raises pressure. If it was a permanent addition to the game, I don’t think it would of been as big a contention point. (And as of this post, I have NOT finished it, still like it though)

A good game designer would not design a dungeon that required you to be a certain height to shoot over an obstacle, but Arenanet seems to have no compunction telling Norn and Char tough luck when it comes to tight spaces and jumping puzzles. New players ought to be warned that the camera completely bugs out in tight spaces for large characters, and the large character models completely obscure the path in jumping puzzles.

Well, ideally we will continue tweaking our camera until this is not a problem. Throughout the development of GW2 I was very purposefully pushing the boundaries of spatial layout and mechanics, because I believe you can’t know what your limits are until you pass them. One of the themes I tried to explore in a couple places was claustrophobia. (Specifically in Troll End, which I consider to be my worst JP) I always play as the largest male Norn in these areas while I’m building and testing them. One of the reasons for pushing the limits like this is that our engine is malleable because we are an MMO, so we are always tinkering, and it’s possible to push the direction of the engine in new and interesting ways, but only if there are compelling mechanics to justify those changes. I’m one of the guys always pushing and pushing to try to discover new compelling mechanics. That means a lot of experiments. And the nature of experiments is that some fail. But I assure you, at no point have I, or anyone here, built something that totally sucks for one of the races and said, “Well, screw THOSE guys! I don’t care about Norn!”

FYI – I gave up on my norn on Troll’s end. The camera kept catching on things, and it started to give me a headache having the camera shake back and forth because of placement. It’s one of the places where it would be nice to be able to be in first person view. (The other is screenshots).

And Ascent seemed to have a few paths, but most of them seemed (especially 2nd to 3rd level) have a very small tolerance for hitting the right spot.

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Posted by: Rann.7198

Rann.7198

I personally feel the design of the clocktower JP was brilliant. I spent about 1.5 hours on learning it and loved every minute of it. Once I got the hang of the first part and broke away from the crowd I was pretty much on my own the rest of the way up. After a while I didn’t even really need to see my character model to know where I was going to do that first part to get away from the pack. So for me, well done.

(edited by Rann.7198)

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Posted by: Mouse.1945

Mouse.1945

Why not just make the timer more lenient? Having to hold the W key the entire time you do this puzzle is the only thing that makes it so obnoxious. If there was even 5 seconds of breathing room it would be a lot nicer.

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Posted by: Theta Zero.9023

Theta Zero.9023

Tried 4 or 5 times, then said “nope, I’m’a farm some more candy corns.” Been happy since.

When I made this map I was HOPING that people who aren’t into jumping would do exactly this. They’d see a fun Halloween looking environment, maybe get to the first chest and snag a goodie, then be on their merry way. I see now it was a mistake to make the hardest jumping challenge in the game part of an in-your-face update like a holiday event. I’m not going to stop making difficult stuff like this, they just won’t be so prominent in the future. I honestly hate making people upset and have a very high level of empathy. So it’s been hard hearing all the people that are so angry, frustrated and sad because of something I’ve made. But it’s just another lesson learned.

Dont stop! Challenges are great! A big part of my personal concern was that it was limited-time, and that i felt “required” to rush through this content to see everything the first holiday event had to offer. Add this kind of content as hidden world events; It will provide a challenge for completionists without the time constraints of a holiday

Holidays are for fun and casual enjoyment. That’s not to say difficult challenges dont have their place in this game; they certainly do

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Posted by: zbrkesbr.4173

zbrkesbr.4173

I think you did an excellent job on both the JP and the MK Map. If the JP had been instanced for single-players or small parties like the story missions are then 90% of the frustration players had would be gone, assuming it’s not just a red herring.

Multiplayer aspect of CT makes it much better and endlessly more fun. Players that are not good with jumping will blame anything and everyone but themselves for their fails anyway.

War doesn’t determine who is right, only who is left.

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Posted by: Bri.8354

Bri.8354

As long as jumping puzzles are optional, that’s fine, but requiring one as they did with the Mad King fight crosses the line. If they are going to require jumping puzzles to complete regular content, then they should fix things so all players have an equal chance.

I did not consider the MK boss map as a jumping puzzle. All you are doing is dropping down. And I made it so there are MANY paths down.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

Noooo! Don’t change what you’re doing! The mad king mini-dungeon layout was fantastic, really spiced it up with the small amount of jumping required. Think of how boring it would be if you just went in and fought him on a flat level :/

Oh I wasn’t saying I was changing anything. I was just seriously surprised that anyone would consider the verticality in that map a ‘jumping puzzle’.

When you died or fell off and had to start from the beginning to get back down to fight the Mad King or loot the chest it felt like a jumping puzzle somewhat, having to hit all the platforms.

I enjoyed that part about it though; it was much more interesting having a boss fight where you had to carefully jump down to reach him at certain stages and after he was defeated rather than fighting him in a flat arena.

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Posted by: Parvati.5780

Parvati.5780

It is a great concept but when forced to try figure it out from scratch with several parties worth of strangers, of varying races and height sliders blocking your view— it turned what should have been fun task into a stress-fest. I spent many hours trying to get it down, but I got done eventually. I’ve completed it 3 times now, one on each different character. I done the jumps by memory alone, since 90% of the time I could not see my character(s), so there’s only memory to go by.

I’d like to see more tough puzzles like this, but outside of festive events and single player instanced too.

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Posted by: Bellatrix.5402

Bellatrix.5402

JoshForeman

When I made this map I was HOPING that people who aren’t into jumping would do exactly this. They’d see a fun Halloween looking environment, maybe get to the first chest and snag a goodie, then be on their merry way. I see now it was a mistake to make the hardest jumping challenge in the game part of an in-your-face update like a holiday event. I’m not going to stop making difficult stuff like this, they just won’t be so prominent in the future. I honestly hate making people upset and have a very high level of empathy. So it’s been hard hearing all the people that are so angry, frustrated and sad because of something I’ve made. But it’s just another lesson learned.

I want to say I really respect you posting here with your own explanations. They are very sparse, but I really recommend reading the better interview/Q&As with the World of Warcraft designers and, though it’s in Korean, the Dungeon & Fighter designers concerning difficulty, availability of content to players, and of course seasonal events. While one may not agree with everything the reasoning is often enlightening.

From knowing that, the moment I saw the “5% post” on Reddit I knew what would happen. It also injected a good amount of elitism into players as well that spilled out into the other parts of the game. It’s rough learning stuff the hard way.

Personally, I tried the puzzle ~150 times (lol, I wish I was kidding) and never getting to that beam on the second small block jump. I found it pretty fun despite failing, but I completely understand the frustration of those who couldn’t complete it for nearly every reason mentioned. Too bad it’s seasonal…

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Posted by: Moose.8512

Moose.8512

I completed it after nearly 3 hours. I would encourage people to keep persisting. It does get easier as you learn the best sequence of jumps, and the wait becomes shorter the further you make it up the tower.

A couple of tips for anyone still trying to complete the puzzle:

1. Don’t worry about going super fast to begin with. Just try to learn the optimal sequence of jumps for the lower section. Once you are comfortable with that, it won’t matter too much if your view is occluded, because you’ll be doing it on autopilot. And most people tend to fall early on anyway, so you’ll likely have a clear view if you can clear the first ~10 platforms.

2. If you can make it to the drop down to the platform with the chest about 2/3rds of the way up and get moving again before the cloud catches you, you CAN finish the puzzle. Getting quickly up the stone step just before this drop was the key for me. Everything above this point is pretty straightforward.

Good luck

(edited by Moose.8512)

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Posted by: vasdrakken.2510

vasdrakken.2510

I tried it and I was fighting the camera the whole I think I made it half way up and decided I really was not having fun. Unlike shark mouth caves which were fun. The acid was over the top on hard jumping puzzle.

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Posted by: vasdrakken.2510

vasdrakken.2510

Oh and the mad king jumps sucked I died landing on the platform 30 or forty times I think I got to open one chest out of 10 runs where we beat the mad king. Meh

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Posted by: Signet of Forums.4397

Signet of Forums.4397

When I made this map I was HOPING that people who aren’t into jumping would do exactly this. They’d see a fun Halloween looking environment, maybe get to the first chest and snag a goodie, then be on their merry way. I see now it was a mistake to make the hardest jumping challenge in the game part of an in-your-face update like a holiday event. I’m not going to stop making difficult stuff like this, they just won’t be so prominent in the future. I honestly hate making people upset and have a very high level of empathy. So it’s been hard hearing all the people that are so angry, frustrated and sad because of something I’ve made. But it’s just another lesson learned.

I think the main problem is that it is something that takes most people a very long time to get good at, and yet it is part a temporary event. Furthermore, time spent on the jumping puzzle is time not spent doing other parts of the event. Some people are forced to make a choice between whether they want to keep on attempting the jumping puzzle that they may never actually even finish before the event is over, or to give up on it entirely so that they can spend more time on other parts of the event.

What I mean is that I don’t think that it being part of an “in-your-face” update is the problem. The problem is having something that is so difficult for many people be temporary. Maybe that is what you were getting at, though.

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Posted by: Snapdragyn.1238

Snapdragyn.1238

As long as jumping puzzles are optional, that’s fine, but requiring one as they did with the Mad King fight crosses the line. If they are going to require jumping puzzles to complete regular content, then they should fix things so all players have an equal chance.

I did not consider the MK boss map as a jumping puzzle. All you are doing is dropping down. And I made it so there are MANY paths down.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

Noooo! Don’t change what you’re doing! The mad king mini-dungeon layout was fantastic, really spiced it up with the small amount of jumping required. Think of how boring it would be if you just went in and fought him on a flat level :/

Oh I wasn’t saying I was changing anything. I was just seriously surprised that anyone would consider the verticality in that map a ‘jumping puzzle’.

I not only gave up on the Clock Tower (& only tried it a couple of times to say I had – I KNOW what I’m not good at, & have only ever attempted 2 jumping puzzles in the game), I also gave up on the MK dungeon after my 5th time running it w/ (&, sadly, torturing w/ enraged ranting) my guildmates. I died 2 times on that 5th run on just 1 of the jumps, & finally had to suicide dive to the bottom & get rezzed next to the chest.

For those who truly suck at jumping puzzles, yes, this counts. I never found any way to ‘just drop down’ without going SPLAT & having to get a rez (which, honestly, is just humiliating). The worst part is trying to get down to the chest after killing the MK – I’ve earned the reward, but OH WAIT, now I gotta go through the TORTUROUS reminder of how much I SUCK at jumping before I can claim it!

It was not fun for me. I will not do it again. I’ve not been bothered at all that jumping puzzles exist for those who enjoy them, but if this sort of mechanic becomes an integral part of the game such as it was here, I’m out.

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Posted by: BlueStoat.9157

BlueStoat.9157

Spent several hours attempting, cursing, and raging out of the clock tower… then I made it. Too hard for casual players, maybe (I did a 4 hour marathon with no success). Entirely frustrating, most certainly. Reward that doesnt seem worth the effort, BINGO! And for exactly that reason I think this was my favorite piece of Halloween content. Every time I started screaming at my PC I looked a the top right corner of the screen and saw “mad time” and remembered that the tower belonged to Mad King Thorn. Seemed like it was supposed to make me crazy (which it did), and do the same for most who attempted it (clearly it did). I wouldn’t say it was a good design as a Dwayna themed puzzle for winters day, but as a centerpiece of the realm of someone more deranged and violent than the offspring of a Mr Hyde and the mad hatter union, it was PERFECT!

Click [here] to go crazy!

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Posted by: zbrkesbr.4173

zbrkesbr.4173

Oh and the mad king jumps sucked I died landing on the platform 30 or forty times I think I got to open one chest out of 10 runs where we beat the mad king. Meh

All those falling and dying players in MK dungeon reminded me of Lemmings (very old PC and console game) for some reason =).

War doesn’t determine who is right, only who is left.

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Posted by: sonicsix.5713

sonicsix.5713

It sucked an I gave up after day 1, although I gave it numerous attempts. It simply was not fun. And unlike some, my sense of self worth is not based on how well I do on a jumping puzzle in a video game.

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Posted by: Sumii.2845

Sumii.2845

It’s funny because all in all I didn’t really care for a lot of the rewards in terms of skins (I just personally didn’t find them visually appealing or worth any sort of effort), and yet I finally said what the hell and gave the jumping puzzle a shot. After about three hours I decided to check youtube to see if I was going about a certain spot in the wrong light. That’s when I first came upon Josh’s comments to all the varied upset/happy people posting.

I think when it comes to things like legendary weapons and true feats of end-game and what have you that your idea that you mentioned of ‘5% would succeed’ in general is a pretty decent thought structure. However, I think applying that to a seasonal event that is/was quite brief was not a good call. Again, just my opinion. I don’t think everybody should be able to complete it, but I don’t think for what you get as a reward/accomplishment from such a silly puzzle that 5% should ever be a ’This is my basis for designing this level."

Also, I know the MMO is extremely infantile still and working out the bugs with the things like camera. But you yourself admitted that you were going for the platformer type and that as things were it just wasn’t up to snuff. That alone makes me wonder why it was released as it was, but then again some people are loving it so more power to them/you.

I’m going to log in and attempt it some more now not because I enjoy it, but because I’m so anal/OCD I feel compelled to. That and I’m choosing between the lesser of two evils for an itinerary tonight. (Do glitchy puzzle or drink self into a stupor at a Halloween party – I’m too old for the latter now).

Although, on a small aside I did run across an article you wrote some time ago about how you greatly disliked cutscenes / forced character dialogue in games. Which I find quite ironic considering how little control we have over what our characters do, interact with, and engage with in terms of story line (other than be brute, diplomatic, or charming). Maybe you should forward that story to a few of your coworkers in the character development area as it was very well written in that aspect as to how we personally would act and would like our character to act.

That, and I hope that there’s not another episode like this in any future events/updates, at least not with the ‘5%’ intentional mentality. But then again, who am I but just a lowly consumer.

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Posted by: Theplayboy.6417

Theplayboy.6417

Tried 4 or 5 times, then said “nope, I’m’a farm some more candy corns.” Been happy since.

When I made this map I was HOPING that people who aren’t into jumping would do exactly this. They’d see a fun Halloween looking environment, maybe get to the first chest and snag a goodie, then be on their merry way. I see now it was a mistake to make the hardest jumping challenge in the game part of an in-your-face update like a holiday event. I’m not going to stop making difficult stuff like this, they just won’t be so prominent in the future. I honestly hate making people upset and have a very high level of empathy. So it’s been hard hearing all the people that are so angry, frustrated and sad because of something I’ve made. But it’s just another lesson learned.

Batman you can’t give in! The Clocktower was my Guild Wars 2 Halloween Event. Every other player can keep the candy corn nodes, labrynth, title, achievement points, tonics, weapon skins, weapons, etc…. All I want is my clock tower. And please keep it a group event. I met more randoms doing this event than any other PvE content. The clock tower is a blast. I loved and hated every failed and successful attempt. I didn’t know that was even possible. Thank you!

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Posted by: Werewolf.5347

Werewolf.5347

This tower should NOT be a part of the completion requirements for the achievement. NONE of the jumping puzzles should be. Ever consider some people might want the achievement for halloween but can’t do this puzzle? I’ve done every part but this. I’ve tried and tried, close to 5 hours yesterday and about 4 today. I can’t get halfway. Can’t do it. Most parts of this game I can handle and enjoy, but being a veteran with only half a left arm makes this pretty much impossible. I just don’t have the capability to handle the mouse and the direction and space keys at the same time.
Do us a favor and take jumping out of the achievement.

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Posted by: DinoDoll.3682

DinoDoll.3682

Werewolf, the tower is not part of the completion requirement for the Emissary title achievement.

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Posted by: akempera.1649

akempera.1649

I really enjoyed the challenge of the puzzle, but couldn’t get it done in time. I am looking forward to working on it again next year. The apology from Josh Foreman makes me feel a whole lot better about the whole challenge. The desire to check off that box on the event screen drove me to try the puzzle for about 12 hours over 2 days and I so totally burned out on it that I just couldn’t face trying again during the even this year.

Perhaps in the future if you make something this challenging on a special occasion event, you could make an the Accomplishment for it have an Either Or option. Either you attempt is a specified number of times Or you successfully complete the even just once. Then those of us who can’t manage the difficulty can still enjoy trying the challenge and get credit for ‘participating’ in the event. Then, somewhere else in the Accomplishments tab, like the jumping puzzle page, you could put the accomplishment for actually completing the event. That would actually solve most of my frustration with the puzzle.

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Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

Josh, I love Jumping puzzles, and I imagine you must have designed several of the ones that I did enjoy, but the Clocktower is not one of them. The reasons I don’t enjoy the clock tower are:

1. I felt pressure to complete it by Oct 31. Anything that’s really hard should have an infinite time to get around to it. No pressure. If it’s for a temporary event, then most people who attempt it should probably be able to complete it with a little effort. It may take some skill, of course, but should not require a high level of skill and dexterity.

2. I’m not a fan of time pressures. I like puzzles where I can pause to measure my jumps, not where I have to keep moving or I’ll fail it, even if I land every jump I attempt.

3. It had a unique award to it, which I was frustrated I wasn’t able to get. The closest I ever got was to the “leap of faith” portion, but a couple seconds too late to land it and keep moving. In most cases at first I didn’t get past the “small brick” portion near the beginning, or the “beam, brick, beam” bit after that.

4. Having other players get in the way. In other jump puzzles, other people are your friends, in this one they were an obstacle.

5. Having to wait between attempts. The downtime here and at the first major ledge both created unnecessary tension once everything shifted back to frantic non-stop action.

6. Constant rotation. This was my biggest “skill fail” in the puzzle. I just couldn’t maintain the constant right turns with my mouse. At some point around the “small brick” right before the pressure slows a bit, I would find myself really pressured physically to keep turning the camera, because I’d been trying to shift right so often. It would be easier if I could lock right mouse-click without having to hold it down, and several times I failed a run only because the pointer had moved off the game client during a turn and when I clicked it brought up another program. I think it would be better in this sort of high pressure puzzle to keep it more in a straight line, so that camera turning was less important.

7. No “fall backs.” If you aced the first part, but screwed up right near the end, you had to restart the whole thing from scratch. If I could restart from the “middle phase” where the pressure drops a bit, it would be so much more fun.

8. “Mushiness.” I’m not sure if this was lag, or human error, or what, but I had very inconsistent experiences. Sometimes I’d do what I considered a personal best, pull ahead of all the people I could see, yes still the slime would catch up to me before I reached the vertical element in the middle. I did not feel that the speed of the rising waters was consistent from run to run.

A much more enjoyable puzzle in a similar vein was the Spekk’s Lab one, which had several tricky timed jumpjumpjump sequences, still not my favorite, but it was tolerable because when I failed a sequence, I could teleport back up to where I’d failed, and only have to do the last 5-10 jumps that I’d screwed up, rather than having to redo the dozens of jumps that I’d aced several times before.

I did not consider the MK boss map as a jumping puzzle. All you are doing is dropping down. And I made it so there are MANY paths down.

It’s not really, but it can be very dangerous. My level 80 Thief with the 50% fall damage trait can farm it like a boss, but my level 10 Mesmer with no such traits could not find a path to the bottom level that wasn’t fatal at least most of the time. Instead of making all the drops challenging as jumps (ie a high chance of taking massive fall damage or missing completely), maybe balance it so that some paths are tricky jumps, while others are easy jumps but you’re forced to fight some more CCing mobs along the way, offering two different challenge options.

(edited by Ohoni.6057)

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Posted by: Devildoc.6721

Devildoc.6721

As long as jumping puzzles are optional, that’s fine, but requiring one as they did with the Mad King fight crosses the line. If they are going to require jumping puzzles to complete regular content, then they should fix things so all players have an equal chance.

I did not consider the MK boss map as a jumping puzzle. All you are doing is dropping down. And I made it so there are MANY paths down.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

Noooo! Don’t change what you’re doing! The mad king mini-dungeon layout was fantastic, really spiced it up with the small amount of jumping required. Think of how boring it would be if you just went in and fought him on a flat level :/

Oh I wasn’t saying I was changing anything. I was just seriously surprised that anyone would consider the verticality in that map a ‘jumping puzzle’.

Just a bit of feedback on that. The drops were a little bit high, as even with the trait that halved fall damage I was losing half my health and then immediately in a combat situation. I didn’t ever die from it, but I wonder if that was the intent, to make you be really low on health right as the fight starts back up.

Also for the real jumping puzzle. I only would have changed 2 things. Obviously you know now the drawbacks of everyone running it at once (people getting angry at each other for blocking their vision, artificial added difficulty), and there was also 1 brick in the first jumping portion right after the pause on the gear. Once the puzzle started up again, I’d always hit 1 specific brick that caused my camera to go wonky.

Once I got past that first part where the crowd thinned out.. I actually started having fun, having enjoyed all the other jumping puzzles in game even if I raged as I failed them in trial and error.

But every time I had to repeat that first fourth of the puzzle I felt miserable and wasn’t having fun at all.

I think if this had been a solo instance you would have gotten much more positive feedback on it, especially if you made it clear that the jumping puzzle achievement didn’t count towards emissary of the mad king. I may not have spent the 5 hours I did on the puzzle if I’d known that.

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Posted by: Kain Francois.4328

Kain Francois.4328

Josh, I actually think we need MORE super-hard Jumping challenges like Clock Tower! I didn’t complete it either, but in my few attempts, it was AWESOME!

Please don’t feel bad! It’s a great addition for hardcore jumpers who enjoy these things, especially since you don’t have a carrot at the end of a treadmill (as all you got was slippers…)

As for the Mad King fight, I am really a fan of how it had platforming involved on multiple levels. What REALLY spiced it up is the sheer variety you had for progressing downwards in the map! Please make future mini-dungeons like this!

(edited by Kain Francois.4328)

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Posted by: Hidden Beast.3475

Hidden Beast.3475

Just did it, took me 3 hours 30 mins pass when I wanted to go bed but I did it, still annoyed I got no title with 6 achievements!

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Posted by: Brick Mantooth.9520

Brick Mantooth.9520

Not only should you feel bad, you should have to do it all day, as an Asura with a group of Norn and Charr and every time you fail a kitten dies.

Timed-grouped-jumping puzzle…

Might as well have added collision detection to the puzzle just for more fun!

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Posted by: Varl.3269

Varl.3269

I just hope that all the QQing from a few over-vocal complainers doesn’t keep you folks from developing difficult content for some of us. This is the biggest problem with MMOs for me, the only difficulty in any of them comes from PvP or trying to organize a large group of players to work together. Despite how gorgeously crafted and well designed the game world is, this small jumping puzzle was the only time in all my hours I felt challenged and satisfied when I completed it. And that’s a complement, because no other MMO post-“other game” era has given me that feeling at all.

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Posted by: Devildoc.6721

Devildoc.6721

Josh, I actually think we need MORE super-hard Jumping challenges like Clock Tower! I didn’t complete it either, but in my few attempts, it was AWESOME!

Please don’t feel bad! It’s a great addition for hardcore jumpers who enjoy these things, especially since you don’t have a carrot at the end of a treadmill (as all you got was slippers…)

As for the Mad King fight, I am really a fan of how it had platforming involved on multiple levels. What REALLY spiced it up is the sheer variety you had for progressing downwards in the map! Please make future mini-dungeons like this!

As long as the difficulty doesn’t come from an awkward camera or objects (including other players) blocking your vision I agree.

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Posted by: Loroes.1968

Loroes.1968

I gave up many times, but after the countless hours of doing it, and getting annoyed by charrs and norns jumping right into my screen, causing me to die. I had great satisfaction when i beat it. However, there is no way anyone can convince me to do it again. Ever.

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Posted by: turel.7901

turel.7901

I gave up. There was no way to see what I was doing with several Charr/Norn taking up all the screen space.

Another problem is that the Mad Kings Clock Tower jump puzzle is too frustating.
I don’t mind hard puzzles as long as it is fun. Also that you should fail for being rubbish and not because its
a complete zerg.

The tower need to at least give us a chance on the bottom half. Also the timer/green ooze was far too strict.

However I did like the look and feel of the event maps.

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Posted by: Four Jacks Twice.2537

Four Jacks Twice.2537

I had a few goes before I gave up, and it doesn’t bother me at all that passed on it. Although it’s funny coming here and seeing all the people who have completed it being defensive and criticising all the “QQing”, of which there is none if you had actually bothered to read the posts. No one who gave up cares that you completed it.

I actually really like the jumping puzzles in general but the timed element puts me off this one. And not in the same way as Spekk’s, which I had fun with, it’s more like the way I wasn’t a fan of the timed master mission bonuses in Factions. Personally I’m more of a fan of the JPs which are like mini dungeons, like Loreclaw Expanse. More of those, please.

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Posted by: atropos.3074

atropos.3074

Regardless of my own feelings on the event, big kudos to Josh for chiming in here on this thread. It’s great to have that sort of feedback going on.

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Posted by: admcd.4503

admcd.4503

I gave up after a couple of multi-hour sessions of trying over and over. I could get almost to the top but invariably died or had the skeleton hands pull me into the green goo.

I think that this puzzle is much too difficult for what should be a fun holiday event.

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Posted by: Brick Mantooth.9520

Brick Mantooth.9520

I like the people saying that folks are whining because it’s “too challenging”… right. Not being able to SEE your character at all while trying to make precision jumps and landings isn’t a ‘challenge’ it’s just bad design.

There’s a name for the folks acting as if this is no big deal. They’re called: races that aren’t asura.

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Posted by: Jemmi.6058

Jemmi.6058

@Josh

Don’t feel bad about making some frustrated with the tower. People will always be frustrated with something! I think many people loved the tower. I for one, loved the tower. That said, it was too hard for me, and I did give up eventually. I think you did a great job with the design of it. Cheers