Changes to Dungeon loot

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Posted by: Robert Hrouda.1327

Robert Hrouda.1327

Content Designer

Next

Hey Folks,
This patch will see a reworked loot system for dungeons. We realize our current system is lacking, and we have been working hard to correct that. I’m here to detail a bit about what is going to happen, and what you can expect.

So what did we do?
We selected three specific sub-bosses throughout each dungeon chain and developed special drops for them that are influenced by your character’s Magic Find. We also gave those three sub-bosses a guaranteed item called a “Bag of Wondrous Goods” which will give the players a consumable Karma item worth 400 karma, and a consumable monetary item worth up to 4 silver. In explorable dungeons, the bag will also reward three tokens specific to the dungeon.
We realize some explorable chains don’t have as many bosses within them, so we made sure to account for this and updated as many event rewarded chests as needed to ensure balance between all the explorable paths.

We hope these fixes address the issues with dungeon rewards that we have been seeing. As always we will be watching and balancing as new situations arise, but we feel confident that the improvements we have made will make dungeon more rewarding. We’re always looking to expand and better the system though, and regard this in a step in the right direction.

ADDITION: 11/15/3:38
I’m seeing a lot of people reacting to Magic Find being an issue here, so I felt I should clarify something.

Magic find has always effected dungeon creature drops – we haven’t changed that at all. Magic find does not effect chest drops however. This has always been the case in dungeons.
The mention of Magic Find for the sub bosses, is to say that we have given them unique loot drops, and that Magic Find is a factor in what you get from them. That is no different in the past as it has been in the future. The more Magic Find you have, the better chances of obtaining a rarer item.

(edited by Robert Hrouda.1327)

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Posted by: Lorana.2468

Lorana.2468

seems nice, interesting that these drops will be affected by Magic Find.

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Posted by: Ghost.2079

Ghost.2079

A step in the right direction. Thank you.

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Posted by: migu.3597

migu.3597

So the loot from the existing chests remains the same?

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Posted by: Sef.6918

Sef.6918

i dont really like the part about magic find but i guess i will live with it and thanks for the news!

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Posted by: Faceless.7549

Faceless.7549

Magic Find? Really? It’s nice that the stat is actually employed in the game, but I don’t think this is the right solution. People will either come completely decked in MF gear, consequently lowering their efficiency and usefulness in the group, or they will come with their proper gear and inevitably have low MF.

In order to benefit from this change, people will be forced to consume MF food or buy your MF boosters.

I like the other changes, but the MF-influenced special drops are just a terrible idea.

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Posted by: Lctl.6198

Lctl.6198

Im sorry, but I can’t be the only one worried about Magic Find gear on dungeon runs?

Why have it influenced by a stat we have to choose over other stats?
It’s not groundbreaking, but it seems that you’r forcing people to run around with magic find as a “must have” stat…

Just seems a bit odd that is all…but at least youre changing things , which is always good

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Posted by: Testosu.3475

Testosu.3475

yay… now people will start wearing MF into dungeons making them undoable…

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Posted by: fony.5102

fony.5102

So the loot from the existing chests remains the same?

We realize some explorable chains don’t have as many bosses within them, so we made sure to account for this and updated as many event rewarded chests as needed to ensure balance between all the explorable paths.

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Posted by: Under Web.2497

Under Web.2497

Thank you for the communication – thats ALL thats needed
– and as for the MF? i think it mixes it up and will make things more interesting (Regular dungeon groups might fare better as they could have 1 or 2 decked out max mf and then share the rewards)

(edited by Under Web.2497)

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Posted by: Rejam.3946

Rejam.3946

Sounds like you’ve spent a great deal of time making these updates.
Can’t wait to get in to my mf gear. My party will suffer for it but at least i will get nice loot.

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Posted by: Kurp.3207

Kurp.3207

Time to get ’em Magic Find gear.

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Posted by: Brunners.7251

Brunners.7251

I’ve already heard people complain that MF gear sucks in dungeons, and you’re just making it more vital that magic find gear is used?

Founder of small guild Brothers of Aesir [EU Desolation]
WvW and PvE orientated!
brothersofaesir.eu

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Posted by: Testosu.3475

Testosu.3475

Sounds like you’ve spent a great deal of time making these updates.

forgot the <sarcasm></sarcasm> tags?

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Posted by: shaktiboi.5194

shaktiboi.5194

Just pointing out that one single level 70 item can salvage into one or more ectos worth 20s each on the TP. So…. does 9 tokens, 1200 Karma, and “up to” 12 silver equate to this time/reward comparison? Especially when an hour of running around four different outdoor zones will grant 4500 karma for your daily achievement and usually 6+ yellow items to salvage? Not even counting all the other rare mats and vendor trash you’ll pick up along the way?

… No. It’s a step in the right direction but not enough. At the very least, we should see more yellows and exotics dropping instead of just blues and greens.

Also, I can use MF gear in Orr, but I sure cant get away with using MF gear in a dungeon.

So speaking for myself, this is zero extra incentive to dally with trash and skip able sub bosses. It’s still a better time/investment proposition to speed clear a path in 15 minutes skipping everything possible to get the 60 tokens per day, then head out to more lucrative pastures. Especially when everything is so expensive.

(edited by shaktiboi.5194)

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Posted by: Arekai.5698

Arekai.5698

Oh boy, now baddies will run 100% mf gear and die every 10 secs.
Why can’t you do anything right?

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Posted by: Bunta.5267

Bunta.5267

I’m sure you were expecting this question, but

what is happening to the reward we usually get on completing the dungeon.?

especially the 60 tokens and 1.8k karma, going from 60 to just 9 would be … making rewards worse not better.

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Posted by: Faerie.3657

Faerie.3657

Hey Folks,
So what did we do?
We selected three specific sub-bosses throughout each dungeon chain and developed special drops for them that are influenced by your character’s Magic Find.

While everything else sounds awesome, this part really disturbs me. There is already enough disdain for magic find mechanics and the fact that players are, in a way, forced to wear sub optimal gear in order to get a better chance for worthwhile drops. Making this specific change you also make us wear magic find gear in dungeons where it completely messes up class balance.

Since MF gear (at least so far) is limited to power/precision and, with Mad King’s set (which is no longer obtainable) power/condition damage, it completely exclude builds that are build around other stats, not to mention the runes that are huge contributor to overall magic find.

Of course we are not forced to use full magic find sets, but I doubt many will be as bold to ignore the possible increase in chance, no matter how small.

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Posted by: Nebilim.5127

Nebilim.5127

By special drops you mean unique drops Hrouda or just random exotics?

But you see Hrouda, the problem wasn’t that we weren’t getting unique items, the problem is that i ran dungeon over 200 times and i have never seen a exotic drop for me. This patch won’t mean a thing if we are just keeping getting blues and whites all the time from chests and the good stuff still remains a 0.001% chance. And people will still skip those bosses if they can.

I’m not saying i want an exotic every run…i’m just saying the time spent there is always bad compared to just farming on good old Orr and buy what i want.

The world is teeming with unnecessary people.
It is God’s decision that i fight.
As knight of honor, as protector of the sin. I sacrifice myself, for the blood of criminals.

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Posted by: Nuka Cola.8520

Nuka Cola.8520

Do we have a decent chance of getting an exotic in chests like during MK farm? or just increased amount of Rares that everyone salvage the sec it drops?

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Posted by: JayTeah.4619

JayTeah.4619

No to magic find,
rest looks interesting.

as to why magic find is a bad stat for dungeons
– the more magic find you have the less combat stats you have.
– the weaker you are and the more the group has to pull you along.
– only you benefit at the end for your selfish stat choices that everyone had to struggle more to overcome

maybe you could make MF work as an avg amongst the group inside dungeons Diablo 3 style

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Posted by: Derk.3189

Derk.3189

yay… now people will start wearing MF into dungeons making them undoable…

If you can’t finish a dungeon with a team of MF gear players then I think you should question your skill first, before the gear.

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Posted by: Terra.8571

Terra.8571

So let me get this right, you WANT us to wear magic find, even condi speced builds who are at an obvious disadvantage as the magic gear is mainly power/prec specced.

I can see it now – guys hold up, we’re about to fight the MF mob, need to switch to magic find gear for the fight. Consequently fight lasts longer, less skilled players die resulting in discontent.

I bet Kohler is one of these bosses, people have been skipping him because they lack skill or lack of reward. I guarantee you half the teams that fight him will struggle, but 50-75% of this will be due to the ‘baddies/ less experienced’ players wearing mf gear.

I’m not gonna be a hippocrit here and say I will be the best player for my team and wear gear to ensure the encounter is completed most efficiently. I’ll get rewarded more for mf gear so I am gonna wear mf gear.

I have a wonderful venom share thief who eats up arah and is eagerly anticipating the fractal dungeons. BUT, seeing how you will reward MF more, I’ll either be running dunegons in full mf gear or switch to mf gear for these bosses. Good job Arena net, you are encouraging magic find over stats which help teams. Further more you are boxing only certain type of mf builds as mf on gear is limited to power/prec.

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Posted by: Strifey.7215

Strifey.7215

Magic Find as a mechanic in dungeons to ensure the “best” loot?

Bad decision..

I don’t think MF belongs in a MMO in the first place, it is much different then a hack and slash like Diablo.

The fact that you want to bring it into the most challenging area of PvE content which should be balanced and rewarded based on player skill, synergized builds, and teamwork, not who can struggle through a dungeon with randoms who want to wear max mf, is really going in the wrong direction imho.

Also have you guys thought about Lodestones at all? It seemed like an obvious area to improved dungeon loot and give it something specific, since Lodestones right now have terrible drop rates pretty much everywhere, are used in all legendaries and the devs have stated they are looking into ways to reduce the cost of legendaries. This would give people incentive to enter dungeons instead of grinding Orr all day for loot. I don’t really agree with inflating gold through more direct silver drops through those bags, instead you should look at increasing the supply of certain crafting mats which are pushing over 1g per currently. I think it’s better for the long-term health of MMOs and try and keep inflation as low as possible without straight deflation.

I get 2-4 yellows wearing MF gear for every 15 minute Plinx chain. Leave that mindless farming and lack of combat focused gear out of dungeons.

Just to be clear, this won’t affect dedicated dungeon groups like the one I run in my videos, we already clear 90% of all paths in under 20 min easily, and we are not the ones complaining about the difficulty of dungeons. I already have a full set of exotic mf gear. We all know when we can wear mf gear, and when we need real gear. This will affect all of the PuGs who already spend tons of time and complaining about dungeons which are simple, because now they get to deal with randoms in full mf gear instead of some survivability or dps focused.

I will get lots of loot by wearing mf, the majority of the player base will complain that it is even harder, and ultimately, I don’t really agree with mf being the mechanic that is used to better reward players for doing dungeons even though players like myself will benefit from it the most. I like the challenge, teamwork, and efficiency of clearing dungeons with a dedicated group, I don’t think this should be artificially inflated to get the best gear by forcing mf gear onto people.

Guard/War/Mesmer and Dungeon Guides:
https://www.youtube.com/user/strife025

(edited by Strifey.7215)

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Posted by: Kurp.3207

Kurp.3207

Since MF gear (at least so far) is limited to power/precision and, with Mad King’s set (which is no longer obtainable) power/condition damage, it completely exclude builds that are build around other stats, not to mention the runes that are huge contributor to overall magic find.

Wrong. Accessories, rings, and amulets give Power/Precision while armor pieces give Power/CondDmg

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Posted by: Lorana.2468

Lorana.2468

Hey Folks,
So what did we do?
We selected three specific sub-bosses throughout each dungeon chain and developed special drops for them that are influenced by your character’s Magic Find.

While everything else sounds awesome, this part really disturbs me. There is already enough disdain for magic find mechanics and the fact that players are, in a way, forced to wear sub optimal gear in order to get a better chance for worthwhile drops. Making this specific change you also make us wear magic find gear in dungeons where it completely messes up class balance.

Since MF gear (at least so far) is limited to power/precision and, with Mad King’s set (which is no longer obtainable) power/condition damage, it completely exclude builds that are build around other stats, not to mention the runes that are huge contributor to overall magic find.

Of course we are not forced to use full magic find sets, but I doubt many will be as bold to ignore the possible increase in chance, no matter how small.

not defending the system but you can get Pow/Cond/MF from CoE explorable tokens.

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Posted by: Bunta.5267

Bunta.5267

you’re dungeons practically (brutally) punish players from running MF gear.

And its an even bigger punishment on squishies.

I foresee whole groups of people running MF, to “make the most” of their time in the dungeon. I mean, why would anyone risk not having the highest MF possible to obtain ossum new loot?

And just zerg/dying and having a horrible time of it.

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Posted by: haviz.1340

haviz.1340

Hmm, seems like it’s now 69 tokens per run assuming you wont skip those three bosses. So it’s going to be 20 run for full set of armour. Shame it’s still 4 runs for offhand only weapons (lacking 3 tokens so I guess you could kill 1st boss to get them if you only need that weapon)

Also, it seems like a lot of people will be running glass cannons (mf/pow/prec) just to get better gear. Well, maybe they will learn to dodge after a numerous attempts to kill those three specific sub-bosses so overall it’s a welcome change. Can’t wait to test those new loot tables.

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Posted by: Derk.3189

Derk.3189

Since MF gear (at least so far) is limited to power/precision and, with Mad King’s set (which is no longer obtainable) power/condition damage, it completely exclude builds that are build around other stats, not to mention the runes that are huge contributor to overall magic find.

Wrong. Accessories, rings, and amulets give Power/Precision while armor pieces give Power/CondDmg

Yeah this is more of the concern for me, there’s really no variety in MF gear. My first set of armor was a full MF set but the build opportunities weren’t fun.

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Posted by: Squash.9361

Squash.9361

An additional 1200 karma and 12 silver does not make dungeon rewards more enticing than Orr farming that nets more in a shorter amount of time. I don’t even think the extra tokens are worth mentioning.

And as others have mentioned, having to now bring magic find gear to have a chance of looting some of these new drops (are these described anywhere in more detail?) is not a great solution either. It encourages wearing suboptimal equipment. Why not just have these drop from chests?

Edit: And PLEASE take a look at core/lodestone drops, this would make running dungeons FAR more rewarding than random loot tables and a paltry amount of coin and karma.

(edited by Squash.9361)

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Posted by: Zogyark.4597

Zogyark.4597

Time to put away my exotic Arah and TA gear and bring out my rare MF gear LOL!

Necromancer Lupicus Solo – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWkSkhmWiDU

Retired Until Expansion or Meaningful Content is Released.

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Posted by: Kuldebar.1897

Kuldebar.1897

I’m sorry, but I want to see the patch notes removing “Magic Find” from the game.

It’s lame and counter to good gaming and only encourages a self-serving mentality.

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Posted by: Rising Dusk.2408

Rising Dusk.2408

Ouch, this is what we waited so long for? Omnomberry Bars aren’t even going to boost the silver from these silly bags because it’s an opened bag, not a drop! Furthermore, since the “good rewards” (tokens, silver) are static across all dungeons, there’s no good reason to do other dungeons bar the easiest. That means that AC is still going to be the most profitable dungeon (barring lucky cores/lodes in CoE), and I’m still not going to diversify my dungeon experience any. What a shame.

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Posted by: Derk.3189

Derk.3189

An additional 1200 karma and 12 silver does not make dungeon rewards more enticing than Orr farming that nets more in a shorter amount of time. I don’t even think the extra tokens are worth mentioning.

And as others have mentioned, having to now bring magic find gear to have a chance of looting some of these new drops (are these described anywhere in more detail?) is not a great solution either. It encourages wearing suboptimal equipment. Why not just have these drop from chests?

Because they want it to be viable for people with MF gear. You don’t like running MF gear in dungeons, neither do I, but some other guy out there does. Lets not be selfish?

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Posted by: drkn.3429

drkn.3429

Changes are awesome, but adding another incentive to run magic find gear in an explorable dungeon is a killer to pugging. Literally a nail to its already solid coffin.

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Posted by: Iehova.9518

Iehova.9518

LFG [Boss name here], must have 146% MF to continue.

Also: WTS [Simin’s Staff of A Decent Looking Skin] 50g

(edited by Iehova.9518)

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Posted by: Derk.3189

Derk.3189

Ouch, this is what we waited so long for? Omnomberry Bars aren’t even going to boost the silver from these silly bags because it’s an opened bag, not a drop! Furthermore, since the “good rewards” (tokens, silver) are static across all dungeons, there’s no good reason to do other dungeons bar the easiest. That means that AC is still going to be the most profitable dungeon (barring lucky cores/lodes in CoE), and I’m still not going to diversify my dungeon experience any. What a shame.

But its your choice to not run dungeons other than AC. You ever thought maybe some people want to run dungeons for gear specific to that dungeon, or just for fun in general? Clearly if you’re running dungeons for coin, you could be doing Orr for coin faster.

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Posted by: haviz.1340

haviz.1340

Changes are awesome, but adding another incentive to run magic find gear in an explorable dungeon is a killer to pugging. Literally a nail to its already solid coffin.

I don’t really get what you’re saying. Running MF gear promotes skilled play so it’s beneficial for community.

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Posted by: Krage.1793

Krage.1793

I must be one of the few who actually likes the MF mechanic.

My reasoning is based on risk vs reward.

You wear more MF gear to get better rewards…but risk being weaker and not completing it.

Its like creating a self scaling hardmode for better loot, brilliant imo.

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Posted by: Rising Dusk.2408

Rising Dusk.2408

But its your choice to not run dungeons other than AC. You ever thought maybe some people want to run dungeons for gear specific to that dungeon, or just for fun in general? Clearly if you’re running dungeons for coin, you could be doing Orr for coin faster.

I make roughly the same consistent money clearing AC as clearing Orr, it’s less boring, and it gets me a ton of free exotics to throw in the forge for precursors via tokens or give to my alts. If you farm Orr for money, you have to then spend that money to gear other toons, which is not the case with farming AC (the gear is a free side bonus).

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Posted by: Terra.8571

Terra.8571

yay… now people will start wearing MF into dungeons making them undoable…

If you can’t finish a dungeon with a team of MF gear players then I think you should question your skill first, before the gear.

So dungeons are completed by individuals?

I always thought it was a team effort – is that not why there are five people doing it?

Can I complete a dungeon with 5 people? Yes

Is it the most efficient? No

Further more mf is limited to power/prec gear, what about the condi speced classes. Secondly, mf gear has no defensive stats – it obviously favours classes which mitigate damage though complete avoidance e.g. thieves. However, its double edged as it significantly reduces power and damage so you need to melee to counter this. However many people will stick to ranged weapon to avoid being one shotted. This will increase battle length and result in more chance of wipes.

If people want to wear full mf they can but other’s shouldn;t have to suffer from them contributing less. I don;t care how good you are, there is no argument – the same play will contribute more if he wears gear without mf.

The case in matter, if you are NOT wearing MF gear you are doing it wrong. That is basically what Mr Hrouda is saying. By the same token, as mf gear is power/prec, we should be physical damage builds or again you are doing it wrong.

If you argue, well you don;t have to have 200% mf, I will counter by saying mf gives me better loot, I am doing dungeons for loot, why should I waste a gear slot anything without mf as I will be rewarded less.

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Posted by: Derk.3189

Derk.3189

LFG [Boss name here], must have 146% MF to continue.

Aren’t people who want to run with no MF’ers just as bad?

LFG [Boss name here], must not have MF gear. Behavior segregating people is bad no matter which way you look at it.

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Posted by: BraveSirRobin.3497

BraveSirRobin.3497

Thank you for increasing the drops from the dungeon but as many people have already indicated letting magic find affect these new chests is not a change for the better. This will lead to people equipping themselves in a way which does not benefit the group at all. Guild Wars 2 is all about grouping up so incentives to gear in a way that weakens the character does not increase enjoyment during runs.

Please reconsider this small part of the change!

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Posted by: drkn.3429

drkn.3429

Changes are awesome, but adding another incentive to run magic find gear in an explorable dungeon is a killer to pugging. Literally a nail to its already solid coffin.

I don’t really get what you’re saying. Running MF gear promotes skilled play so it’s beneficial for community.

Running mf gear is rude to your party members who have to revive you more often or who have to waste more time – because you’re not maximising your survival/damage, but a statistic which only benefits you, and you only, at the expensve of others’ time.
Adding an incentive to run greed-based builds in explorable dungeons is bad.

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Posted by: Iehova.9518

Iehova.9518

Aren’t people who want to run with no MF’ers just as bad?

Everything is so generalized.

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Posted by: Lorana.2468

Lorana.2468

LFG [Boss name here], must have 146% MF to continue.

Aren’t people who want to run with no MF’ers just as bad?

LFG [Boss name here], must not have MF gear. Behavior segregating people is bad no matter which way you look at it.

except wearing MF gear kittens your fighting capability, where as normal gear does not, be it more damage or less damage recieved.

MF does nothing to improve your fighting chances.

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Posted by: Terra.8571

Terra.8571

But its your choice to not run dungeons other than AC. You ever thought maybe some people want to run dungeons for gear specific to that dungeon, or just for fun in general? Clearly if you’re running dungeons for coin, you could be doing Orr for coin faster.

I make roughly the same consistent money clearing AC as clearing Orr, it’s less boring, and it gets me a ton of free exotics to throw in the forge for precursors via tokens or give to my alts. If you farm Orr for money, you have to then spend that money to gear other toons, which is not the case with farming AC (the gear is a free side bonus).

Things have changed in last 7-10 days if you haven;t noticed. Ectos are 22-23s and rares 20s+. Orr now offers 3g+/hr. AC still offers 1.5g/hr in a good group. Orr is much much more profitable these days.

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Posted by: DaStinger.5079

DaStinger.5079

Personally I like the magic find stat, and that aside like the overall changes to dungeon rewards. Thanks Anet.

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Posted by: Derk.3189

Derk.3189

yay… now people will start wearing MF into dungeons making them undoable…

If you can’t finish a dungeon with a team of MF gear players then I think you should question your skill first, before the gear.

So dungeons are completed by individuals?

I always thought it was a team effort – is that not why there are five people doing it?

Can I complete a dungeon with 5 people? Yes

Is it the most efficient? No

Further more mf is limited to power/prec gear, what about the condi speced classes. Secondly, mf gear has no defensive stats – it obviously favours classes which mitigate damage though complete avoidance e.g. thieves. However, its double edged as it significantly reduces power and damage so you need to melee to counter this. However many people will stick to ranged weapon to avoid being one shotted. This will increase battle length and result in more chance of wipes.

If people want to wear full mf they can but other’s shouldn;t have to suffer from them contributing less. I don;t care how good you are, there is no argument – the same play will contribute more if he wears gear without mf.

The case in matter, if you are NOT wearing MF gear you are doing it wrong. That is basically what Mr Hrouda is saying. By the same token, as mf gear is power/prec, we should be physical damage builds or again you are doing it wrong.

If you argue, well you don;t have to have 200% mf, I will counter by saying mf gives me better loot, I am doing dungeons for loot, why should I waste a gear slot anything without mf as I will be rewarded less.

You answered your own question. If a dungeon goer is going for the loot drop from bosses, why should he not be allowed to run MF gear? You want to clear it fast because you want the reward at the end, other people might want the rewards in between.

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Posted by: Iehova.9518

Iehova.9518

Orr now offers 3g+/hr.

Please provide backup to this statement.

You can farm Orr for hours and not receive a single rare in full MF gear, whereas you’re guaranteed to receive 1.5g from AC.