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Posted by: Kain Francois.4328

Kain Francois.4328

Honestly, with all the explosive feedback and fact this thread is stickied, how can they NOT rebalance it?

I think an update is in the works, and they’re just making sure it’s good before releasing it.

It makes no sense for a company to shoot itself in the foot, so they obviously have some idea what they’re doing to respond.

We DO know some things are bugged in the update:

This is a bug with our new anti-speed clear tech, and we’ll have it sorted out soon. Sorry you (and others) are getting hosed by this.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/dungeons/2-6-Silver-and-17-7k-XP/189577

(edited by Kain Francois.4328)

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Posted by: Gray.9650

Gray.9650

I think an update is in the works, and they’re just making sure it’s good before releasing it.

doubt it. they already explained their stance and the cof-dev implied as well that groups that can’t kill magg’s bombsection are not hardcore/dedicated/coordinated/skilled enough (take your pick) and doing it wrong – such loophole will be fixed according to colin’s post, so people have to do encounters as they are supposed to.

It makes no sense for a company to shoot itself in the foot, so they obviously have some idea what they’re doing to respond.

you didn’t play TOR, did you?

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Posted by: ChairGraveyard.2967

ChairGraveyard.2967

Honestly, with all the explosive feedback and fact this thread is stickied, how can they NOT rebalance it?

I think an update is in the works, and they’re just making sure it’s good before releasing it.

It makes no sense for a company to shoot itself in the foot, so they obviously have some idea what they’re doing to respond.

I wouldn’t be surprised if their idea of a “good fix” for this was to slap more broken diminishing returns systems all over the game willy nilly.

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Posted by: Gray.9650

Gray.9650

If you can’t do them with a static group, so what, you aren’t skilled or organized enough. Point is that they have said Explorable Mode dungeons were not for casuals or PUG’s and should not be able to be PUGed. They were designed for skilled, organized, and dedicated groups that prefer a challenge. If this design isn’t what you are looking for, there really isn’t anything else to say except that there are plenty of other games out there were the dungeons are meant to be PUGed.

do you kill every mob in magg’s bomb section and come out on top? if not you’re a scrub as well and playing the wrong game too.

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Posted by: Hellkaiser.6025

Hellkaiser.6025

some of the claims i’ve seen

#1: One shot mechanics have tells and you can dodge them all

“LIE, out and out lie, trash mobs can one shot you, their cousins that they didn’t bring along to the dungeon that day can one shot you, and in story mode no less. do they have tells? for some attacks yes, if you aren’t dealing with tons of adds that can also one shot you in melee then I’m sure you can competently deal with those one shot ranged mechanics, after all what sort of a lunatic would WANT to be a melee damage dealer in rangedwars2”

#2: the rewards needed a nerf and it was too easy:

“again, subjective mostly. This usually goes by the assumption that their exploit was working as intended and probably comes from people who were using an exploit to get by a large portion of the dungeon. if it was too easy, why were so many players exploiting to skip it? I found Cof post patch fine UP til the defense of magg then it was just a huge clusterfrack, it was horribly tuned before that, it required a fair deal of attention and a LOT of ranged and an avoidance of melee when possible, but it was do-able til that point. After a few rounds of that we kinda just tried everything before saying forget it, this is a joke

#3: they’re a games company, given the feedback they will change it:

“Again, SWTOR, Diablo 3, the latter ate humble pie and the playerbase nearly had to sue them to get them to buck up and admit they were out of their kitten freakin mind with what they expected and how badly tuned their game was. Do we expect rebalancing? I don’t know WHAT to expect from A-net, they’ve been promising all this tripe all the way up to release, and then on release I’m finding they’ve been either annihilating the ideals of grinding is no fun and instead coming up with a more sinister we don’t think grinding is fun…..so we’re going to stop you doing it by introducing bad mechanics and overtuning instances so you’re not bothered with them

IF these changes are temporary, heck I’ll be a man and eat humble pie I’ll apologies freely.

IF they are not and this is a taste of things to come, then simply

THIS is NOT the game that I was told I was buying

I complete a dungeon, I get a random reward I can’t use, that’s not what I was told.
there is no progression for the chunky monky mob hp grind with one shot mechanics galore grind for exotic gear and skins. it starts at garbage, and continues to remain garbage.

and all in all they’ve been more interested in buffing dungeon difficulty to the point NO ONE wants to do them even on STORY mode, and getting their mac client advertised and out than ya know, the guys who just collectively gave them millions….

PRIORITIES.THEIRS.SUCK

“hey I swung a sword and got one shot again, hey I swung a sword and got one shot,
I don’t think that’s fun”

(edited by Hellkaiser.6025)

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Posted by: Fatalyz.7168

Fatalyz.7168

@ Gray

Whether I can or can not is not the point of my post. The point of my post is to say that the devs themselves have said that explorable mode dungeons are not for PUG’s. I was responding to his statement that they should have let PUG’s test it so that they could see it was impossible for them to do. My statement merely was that is the point behind explorable mode dungeons, that they are not meant to be done by PUG’s. I see that bothers a good amount of people here, and those seem to think that the explorable mode dungeons should be able to be done by PUG’s when the dev’s have said that they are not meant for that.

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Posted by: Robert Hrouda.1327

Previous

Robert Hrouda.1327

Content Designer

Next

Hey folks,

I figured it was already posted on this thread, but in the case that it is not posted and/or lost in the threadnaught, I am going to reiterate something that seemed to surprise people in another thread.

The “diminished returns anti-speed clear tech” that went in last patch is NOT functioning as intended. It is currently bugged. We’re working on it, and will have a solution as soon as possible.

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Posted by: Gray.9650

Gray.9650

@ Gray

Whether I can or can not is not the point of my post. The point of my post is to say that the devs themselves have said that explorable mode dungeons are not for PUG’s. I was responding to his statement that they should have let PUG’s test it so that they could see it was impossible for them to do. My statement merely was that is the point behind explorable mode dungeons, that they are not meant to be done by PUG’s. I see that bothers a good amount of people here, and those seem to think that the explorable mode dungeons should be able to be done by PUG’s when the dev’s have said that they are not meant for that.

and my point was even skilled/organized groups (the target demographic) are unable to defeat it the way it’s intended – which puts said dev statements in a whole new light

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Posted by: Azirel.8391

Azirel.8391

Cool. Endgame is still broken tho, any comments bout CoF?

Is it coming back to previous form, which was actually fun?

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Posted by: Hellkaiser.6025

Hellkaiser.6025

@ Gray

Whether I can or can not is not the point of my post. The point of my post is to say that the devs themselves have said that explorable mode dungeons are not for PUG’s. I was responding to his statement that they should have let PUG’s test it so that they could see it was impossible for them to do. My statement merely was that is the point behind explorable mode dungeons, that they are not meant to be done by PUG’s. I see that bothers a good amount of people here, and those seem to think that the explorable mode dungeons should be able to be done by PUG’s when the dev’s have said that they are not meant for that.

I would like to add, if that’s what’s intended, that’s ok. But the way they’re “challenging” groups is with “moarh hpzorz and strongerer firekitten” it feels like it’s balanced by a 10year old :S RPGmaker games have better tough bosses in their amateur games than this in terms of raw base stats and design mechanics than guildwars has at times.

maybe it’s just me but the balancing is just adding to the “rangedwars2” feeling. something doesn’t feel right :S

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Posted by: Kain Francois.4328

Kain Francois.4328

Also:

Robert Hrouda

It is frustrating and unfair that it is happening, and we’re working on it (it has happened to me as well, and I share your pain). As a dungeon designer, it’s pretty upsetting to see dungeons being thrashed to pieces on forums due to this bug.
People are rightfully upset, and we have the best tech-priests on this side of the Imperium, and we’re all working to resolve this thing ASAP.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/dungeons/2-6-Silver-and-17-7k-XP/190257

This is great news!

Though, my own personal conspiracy theory is I think ANET was also trying to study how players complete these dungeons.

A holy-trinity-meta hasn’t been discovered yet, or at least it’s very low profile. So in the process of fixing the dungeons, I think ANET has also been studying how players compete against overpowered foes.

In other words, I think they’re collecting data to design better content in the future.

Just my own conspiracy theory here… xD

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Posted by: Hellkaiser.6025

Hellkaiser.6025

Hey folks,

I figured it was already posted on this thread, but in the case that it is not posted and/or lost in the threadnaught, I am going to reiterate something that seemed to surprise people in another thread.

The “diminished returns anti-speed clear tech” that went in last patch is NOT functioning as intended. It is currently bugged. We’re working on it, and will have a solution as soon as possible.

figured already by players :P it’s got issues with the party systems apparently.
any words on the extreme difficulty makeover Cm story mode recieved?

If explorable mode is to be the extreme:
“I’m uber1337 coz my stacked team can keep magg alive”

Then why was cm elevated to:
“moar kiting, omg one shot again! rez plz! respawn quick, lf guardian no squishies”

seems to me no one is doing it for even fun anymore, or at a massively reduced rate at least.

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Posted by: Gray.9650

Gray.9650

A holy-trinity-meta hasn’t been discovered yet, or at least it’s very low profile. So in the process of fixing the dungeons, I think ANET has also been studying how players compete against overpowered foes.

you mean the exact comp the devs run it and any deviation is recipe for fail?

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Posted by: The Mexican Cookie.3690

The Mexican Cookie.3690

Why is it, that if a team of players have the playing ability and coordination to complete ‘difficult’ content in a fast manor, that they should be penalised? It’s one thing if these people are exploiting or using bugs to complete the content in ways that are not intended, by all means fix that or penalise players who abuse bugs. But why should people who legitimately clear an instance have their reward(s) capped because they take the time and effort to learn and practice the games mechanics? These players should be rewarded more highly, if anything. These players are putting in time and effort to learn your game, they’re showing you the potential it has and how your player base can adapt to your content.

‘Speed clearing causes inflation!’ This is true, to some extent. Speed clearing CAN cause inflation, but is it really that big of a risk? The only way speed clearing dungeons is going to cause inflation is if money supply goes through the roof and depreciates the value of gold (see: diablo 3), or if enough of the games population profits off of it and demand increases, pushing prices up as suppliers can make more revenue. Ok, fair enough. But then why not make the content more difficult? All you’ve achieved with your ‘anti-speed clearing system’ is removed some incentive for people to clear full paths for the end rewards, while at the same time increased incentive for people to do what they’re doing in Arah and just farm a couple of bosses then restart. This brings up the question of, What are you more worried about, Anet? That your dungeon armours will lose ‘prestige’ or that people will make too much money from dungeons?

Put the rewards back up, or even increase them. This gives people incentive to learn your games mechanics, to put time and effort into forging tactics and team builds, trying to complete the content in a fun and efficient manor. Perhaps encourage change, reward people for doing different dungeons and paths instead of farming one path in one dungeon over and over again. Your solution currently promotes productive dungeon ‘token’ farming, not content completion or variation. If it is being farmed too easily, increase the difficulty. You did it already with Citadel of flame, and to great success (disregarding excessive butt hurt), the difficulty was ramped up significantly and a lot of players now find themselves having to learn more about the game, to get better so that they’re able to complete the content. I’m sure you’re able to tweak other paths to do the same.

You want to keep the dungeon armour ‘prestigious’? Make the content more difficult. If the armour is supposed to have prestige, it shouldn’t be easily obtainable by your average Joe just doing one run a day spending over 20 silver on armour repairs each run. You don’t want people to just farm one path for profit? Keep the diminishing returns for completing the same path over and over, ENCOURAGE people to do different dungeons and different paths, so that they retain full rewards. Man, you could even give people a larger reward for getting 4/4 in a dungeon, incentive is a very important thing. Punish people for doing one dungeon efficiently, then a different one just as efficiently? Why? It’s like you legitimately don’t want us to do more than one dungeon a day.

All I’m trying to say is that it’s really upsetting that you feel you have to punish players for working together and putting time in to learn your games mechanics, yet not encourage the rest of the player base to get better or learn more, because they’re more than happy farming the easy bosses in dungeon paths and just restarting, not thinking twice about having to complete the rest, or to kill the end boss knowing what pitiful reward awaits them at the end. Personally, I enjoy theory-crafting and trying to efficiently clear content with friends. But why even bother if pugs who don’t even talk to each other in party chat are able to be just as productive in making money and obtaining dungeon ‘tokens’, as I am with my party of five who took the time and put in the effort to learn the game.

TL;DR Why punish players who learn game mechanics. Encourage variation. Increase incentive to complete content not just farm parts of it.

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Posted by: Eve.1029

Eve.1029

Um, look I’ve pretty much farmed out my CoF gear by the time the patch hit, so the changes did not affect me personally. However, they do affect my friends who need them. One person ran TA yesterday w/ a staticish group that runs it daily. He got 6 silvers, while others in the same group received 9s, and 12s. It’s all their first run of the day. Also have friends hitting 70-75 to 80 who can really use the company and the help running dungeons. Before it wasn’t a bit deal, we spend more time helping them but get silver and skill point for our time. But now? The dungeon rewards are RNG u can get DR even if u run 2 paths, 6 silvers to recover minimum 25 minutes and repair costs is just not enough incentive. Esp to players that’s already had to grind, yes grind, countless amount of these dungeons already. So… our new 80s bang their head against the wall for a bit and then go play something else.. sigh

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Posted by: Crise.9401

Crise.9401

A holy-trinity-meta hasn’t been discovered yet, or at least it’s very low profile. So in the process of fixing the dungeons, I think ANET has also been studying how players compete against overpowered foes.

you mean the exact comp the devs run it and any deviation is recipe for fail?

If you read Robert Hrouda’s post in another topic… already linked here, they do not have such comp… they can run it with different compositions.

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Posted by: Fatalyz.7168

Fatalyz.7168

@ Gray

I understood your point, was just making my point clearer. If those target groups are having difficulty, then yes it is an issue. I more or less got tired of seeing the generic “I can’t PUG this anymore” threads and was trying to address those specifically :P

As far as explorable’s the only one I’ve completed thus far was CM butler path, and that was a pain, granted it was first explorable that I had done and was only lvl 45 or 46, can’t remember. Just hit 80 not long ago and helping my group catch up so I am looking forward to more. Although that wasn’t part of my post, just to let you know about me.

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Posted by: PinCushion.7390

PinCushion.7390

I somewhat agree. I think that, instead of putting in DR, they should have looked into which paths were completed most/fastest and gradually increased their difficulty levels until path completions were more or less equal. Then they could look into what was wrong with paths that are almost never completed, and the data wouldn’t be tainted by people completing them simply to avoid DR.

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Posted by: DarthVarner.9246

DarthVarner.9246


any words on the extreme difficulty makeover Cm story mode recieved?

If explorable mode is to be the extreme:
“I’m uber1337 coz my stacked team can keep magg alive”

Then why was cm elevated to:
“moar kiting, omg one shot again! rez plz! respawn quick, lf guardian no squishies”

seems to me no one is doing it for even fun anymore, or at a massively reduced rate at least.

This is what I want to know. I led a pub group in CM Story the day after the `exploit fix` (read: extreme buff to the supposedly-pub-friendly story mode) and we managed to handle most of it. Harder, for sure, but we handled it. Probably helped that I’m a fully support built Guardian.

Up until the archer boss around the passed-out drunken dude.

That fight is no longer possible for pubs. I’m just putting that out there. The 3 new melee mobs that pop out hit like trucks, even against my (in other conditions) extremely resilient Guardian. They also chain knockbacks. And you’re supposed to deal with all of these mobs at once, until you’ve killed SEVEN high-hp silver mobs? I was using every survival trick in my book, and was only lasting 10-20 seconds longer than the rest of my group. Good luck getting a group to focus one target down when a) it’s a pub group, and b) everyone except the tankiest of us get wiped within 10 seconds.

Oh, and of course now that it’s a multi-mob fight all of their HP resets.

This is not story mode material. I had two groups fall apart and three ninja loggers that night alone; it was BY FAR the poorest experience I have had since GW2 was released.

In my opinion, about half of the buffing to CM story should be reverted (especially this fight’s new mechanics). More HP, somewhat more damage, OK. This is not. If people can still blow through it, then the diminishing returns on rewards kicks in. Fine.

tl;dr – Please selectively revert changes to CM so story modes remain possible for pub groups.

(edited by DarthVarner.9246)

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Posted by: Anon.3041

Anon.3041

They might say its tested with all sorts of group compositions but it sounds to me they are balancing it for very few.

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Posted by: Morgoth.4573

Morgoth.4573

Hey folks,

I figured it was already posted on this thread, but in the case that it is not posted and/or lost in the threadnaught, I am going to reiterate something that seemed to surprise people in another thread.

The “diminished returns anti-speed clear tech” that went in last patch is NOT functioning as intended. It is currently bugged. We’re working on it, and will have a solution as soon as possible.

Could you please please please make a post in the Dynamic Events sub folder about whether the diminishing returns on DE’s are also working properly? A lot of people (myself included) have been hit by it while simply exploring the zone they were in at the time.

I have a hard time imagining that this is intended. Please put peoples minds at ease here!!

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Posted by: Urananus.1592

Urananus.1592

!!!!!!!!!!!! I GOT IT !!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh man, after reading these forums for multiple hours I finally figured it out!

Holy jeez, I’m so excited…are you ready?

.
.
.

Shut up and play the game the way it was intended (i.e. NOT a grind-fest).

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Posted by: Eochaidh.4106

Eochaidh.4106

Thank you, Robert. Hopefully people will calm down a bit now.

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Posted by: Gray.9650

Gray.9650

A holy-trinity-meta hasn’t been discovered yet, or at least it’s very low profile. So in the process of fixing the dungeons, I think ANET has also been studying how players compete against overpowered foes.

you mean the exact comp the devs run it and any deviation is recipe for fail?

If you read Robert Hrouda’s post in another topic… already linked here, they do not have such comp… they can run it with different compositions.

I did, and I also read colin’s post about the similarity with DOA. well, if you played gw1 you know what that means.

@ Gray

I understood your point, was just making my point clearer. If those target groups are having difficulty, then yes it is an issue. I more or less got tired of seeing the generic “I can’t PUG this anymore” threads and was trying to address those specifically :P

As far as explorable’s the only one I’ve completed thus far was CM butler path, and that was a pain, granted it was first explorable that I had done and was only lvl 45 or 46, can’t remember. Just hit 80 not long ago and helping my group catch up so I am looking forward to more. Although that wasn’t part of my post, just to let you know about me.

my problem with the whole “you’re not supposed to pug it!” (and why I maybe reacted a little bit over-sensitive to your post – sorry ‘bout that) is not that the dungeons are so challenging they can’t be pugged, just that the game does a) a crappy job teaching players properly and b) are crappy designed (ie. high mob hp does make it challenging. making it hard to see oneshot moves is not challenging. letting bugs slip through because their testteam can work around them is not challenging) to the point they are no fun.

whenever you mention that, you usually encounter said devquote and/or something in the vain of “go back to wow if you want ez-mode”.

I don’t want it easy, I want a challenge – but not by faking challenge to make it “hard” (“we made this boss incredibly challenging and hard – at 20% your screen wents black! our internal testteams were able to complete it successfully, so if you can’t than we’re sorry but that content is not for you”).

what many people forget (and a.net as well) a major part in mmos is socializing, meeting new people to form groups which then become said fixed coordinated groups. but if you make the road so inaccessible (not easy!) that a majority doesn’t even want to do it anymore, who are you gonna do these dungeons with? the tight-knit group of guildies won’t be there for ever, people on your friendslist won’t drag you through a dungeons for you tokens endlessly.

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Posted by: Azirel.8391

Azirel.8391

Eochaidh – there’s nothing to calm down, since they implemented even broken update, besides fact they’ve broken fun along with it.

Game’s still broken, since there’s no way to have funky set to do something more than 30 level dungeons, and it’s endless grind atm without fun [according to variety of skill each class have, playing so many time (how long CoF set takes now? 1xx hours[it’s quite not fair aswell since lot of ppl have those and can just enjoy rest of game since they’re geared]) with 8 buttons is just boring].

Otherwords, that the part of your update was broken, while you implemented broken update itself means nothing. It’s still not fun, even if you fix the thing. Nerf magg path to the level it used to be, instead of making RNG-1 shoot kill thing. It’s not diablo, u can’t pick level your playing on, and naturally bringing inferno-a-like hardmode is riddiculous.
I basically keep fighting bout that, since it’s only thing that can keep me around till MoP.

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Posted by: lynspottery.6529

lynspottery.6529

It appears a lot of folks are not pleased with current state of dungeons, costs, etc., which is how I feel. I was logged on last night for a short while and listening to one of our guild groups who likes to run through dungeons or raids whenever they can. I run with this group in another game on a static team and we always have a blast.

However, GW2 apparently has not begun to fit the bill for this group (or many others for that matter) regarding dungeons, costs, and fun. As I said, the group I was listening to last night attempted another run (apparently a second try of same dungeon) but after all getting one-shot death and seeing how much it cost to repair versus how much “fun” it was….decided to call it quits. This is unusual as we normally will do multiple tries at raid runs and eventually complete them; satisfied and rewarded for our attempts.

I do not believe we will continue attempting dungeon runs as they are currently setup. Costs too much, almost impossible to complete for the casual group that we are and not fun even if we managed to defeat a portion of said dungeon. As for rewards…well we have paid enough of our silver for transport to get restored at death, cost of repair for gear damage and such without satisfaction of completion and of course, no rewards at all for our efforts.

I get the idea that no matter what we do, we will not accomplish a nice casual run in any dungeon as they appear to be designed by the craziest group of hard core developers I’ve ever come across. We are not hard core gamers and most folks in our guild want to enjoy the runs even if difficult, but not impossible as they seem to be at present. Then of course, we come to the costs which outweigh any attempts. I have chosen NOT to run dungeons because of all this.

I am not the best player and definitely not wealthy enough to pay for the learning experience to become better at the dungeons. There just does not appear to be a decent “beginners” type of dungeon that is available for players like me.

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Posted by: Morgoth.4573

Morgoth.4573

I find it funny that Arenanet has the opposite stance that Blizzard has with their dungeons. A very small percentage of the population were doing raids in Vanilla, and as such designing dungeons for such a small amount of the player base was not cost effective. They then made raids easier to manage, and more enjoyable for the following expansions, allowing a far larger percentage of the player base to access them.

Arenanet should really look at what they’re doing, because at present, hardly anyone will run these dungeons. What this means in the long term is that people will get disillusioned into doing them, thinking they will be a massive time and money sink, yet get nothing from doing them.

And in the end, what’s the point of making dungeons that no-one will run?

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Posted by: Tetsuo.2593

Tetsuo.2593

I have a few gripes with the dungeon at this point, baring the known bug about with the Xp/Silver at the end, I wish that the trash mob were a little bit more than just “vanilla wow” trash (hint: fix all the tears by having the trash drop dungeon tokens, even if not a 100% drop rate), but crying because you can’t pug explorable is a bit silly. Explorable were always advertised as meant for organized group of players (ie, they are the WoW Raids minus the logistics of managing a group of 30+ players). I’m glad Anet fixed the speedrun BS. Dungeon gear were supposed mean something more than how fast you can speed thru trash, kill 1-2 bosses, reset and start over. Get over it people. Fix the rewards and the dungeon token system and (both are not that hard to do anyway) and I would be 100% happy.

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Posted by: Kairxa.8706

Kairxa.8706

Increase drop rates and give more money at the end of explorable dungeon. With the increased difficulty, it is appropriate to have more rewards compared to story mode dungeon. Those are the only problems I have. Diminishing reward is okay; there are a lot of paths to do anyway.

Not everyone runs dungeons to get the armor set; it is expensive and gives no actual benefit. Some prefer to do it for fun. It does not have a good mechanics so challenging factor is non-existent, therefore the only fun factor left is rewards. It does not reward players well either, so there is no fun factor left in dungeons anymore. This is however, is my opinion.

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Posted by: Fiontar.4695

Fiontar.4695

Challenging Dungeons means you have to work at it and pay attention to get through with out dying. You know you’ve crossed well over that threshold when the “challenge” of each dungeon becomes “can I finish this and actually earn enough to cover the cost of running it”. That’s frustrating, not fun. What is wrong with you guys? It’s like there is some machismo ego thing going on where success=satisfying the most hard core players that dungeons in this game are very difficult, no matter how many of the rest of us you drive from the content and possible the game!

I agree with others, it’s like in this one area of the game you’ve lost complete touch with the entire design philosophy of the rest of the game AND have ignored every single lesson one could learn from dungeon content in other games!

I think the salt in the wound is the token costs. Some people might be willing to do a half dozen, extremely hard runs to earn a full set of gear. Only the most masochistic players will want to GRIND insanely difficult content over and over and over again to get rewards that just are not worth the effort.

If you want insanely difficult, why not implement an extremely difficult Expert Mode, with double the reward and give the rest of us something with a proper amount of challenge?

Oh and listen to the community. The consensus on Dungeons is very clear and the points have been made in a very even tempered fashion, by genre standards, because of the cache of respect Arenanet built up while developing the game. Don’t be so quick to squander that cache by turning a deaf ear to the fans. You will turn respect to disdain and take the game down with you, just because of an obsession with having dungeons known for their extreme level of difficulty, regardless of what the player base wants.

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Posted by: Kain Francois.4328

Kain Francois.4328

I really like the idea of splitting the topics. Nicely done!

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Posted by: Robert Hrouda.1327

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Robert Hrouda.1327

Content Designer

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I hope that by splitting the topics, it will make updates more easily seen by more people. As we have seen with this very thread, posting an update in here is instantly lost for anyone new coming to the forum, and even people actively on topic.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-Forum-Format-Update/first#post192668

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Posted by: Trinnidad.8504

Trinnidad.8504

Hey ANET,
You guys are pretty awesome and Im sure you know that wwaaayyyy to much of your playerbase has no concept of how to handle change. You guys are doing some really cool stuff and should stick to your guns to see it through. This has been one of the most successful mmo launches in history but most people cannot grasp what it means to flush out a game. The dungeons should be hard on explorable mode but the problem is that the only people that post are the ones that get mad. You guys have huge vision and I hope that enough people stick with you to let you bring those amazing ideas to reality. It has only been less than a month and things are already starting to come together. Make it big and make it hard and make it awesome!

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Posted by: ledzep.9504

ledzep.9504

so is getting almost no reward for completing a story mode part of this bug too?
i know it got reduced but 5% of the reward is a bit much.

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Posted by: Hellkaiser.6025

Hellkaiser.6025

ok Trinnidad, I’ll bite, and by bite I mean “I’m having you”

handle change: depending on the changes, how severe and detrimental to the content in particular, we are entitled to be a little “miffed” and the only real animosity I see is from the pro A-net (and you’ll forgive me for this generalisation) “fanboys” who think we’re all just terribads and our idea of fun puggable content that doesn’t make you wanna vomit for STORY mode dungeons is wrong, and how dare we question their content changes.

If changes are not questioned, then they might get the idea that they can change things without even telling us, which leads to frustration if overdone, in regards to the dungeon changes with Cm story mode, not only did they alter the difficulty of the so called “endgame organised content” that is the CoF path 2 explorable dungeon, they single handedly flipped off the semi casual playerbase they more or less lured in with promises that “grinding isn’t something you’ll have to do”

No I do not think it should continue to reward me for repeating the same dungeon with the same people if I overlevel the content and thus have better traits etc in the sense of exp and monetary gain, but I also don’t feel the instance should be tuned so that helping other players with it results in me questioning both the sanity of the developer in charge of dungeon balance and my own for even stepping into the instance in the first place.

YES dynamic events are fun and great and all that. YES crafting actually has some use

BUT, there are times when I don’t want to do either but would still like something to do aside from “sitting around talking poop” which is one of the main concerns and gripes with WoW (so stop preparing the tired old go back to wow argument)
at these times I think, DUNGEONS! they’re pretty fun right? might have to show some players the ropes but hey I get to meet a few new folk and see how they handle their class mechanics and how it interacts with whichever of mine I’m on.

The result however is a clusterkitten of one shot damages, overtuned GARBAGE content and no imagination next to

“if it’s beside you in melee it will down you in one shot and your teammates may die trying to res you, and if you’re at range (and why shouldn’t you be you idiot) then it can cheese you with a barely telegraphed one shot potentially”

Thus it’s RangedWars2 and anything more than bursts of melee action will get you killed by the randomness of enemies, and if you’re closer you’re more of a target but no less squishy so why bother? your melee attacks by design don’t finish combo’s meaning you don’t get as much out of them already as a ranged weapon, but fgs if we weren’t one shot sokitteneasily by mobs in dungeons and forced to kite them I’d feel less pigeonholed to use ranged and forsake melee. If encounters were more balanced we’d have bosses and encounters where it would be near suicidal to go ranged but I don’t think that’s even possible to implement due to trash hitting us like prizefighters
while we’re wearing pillows that only serve to soften the damage to their knuckles.

It’s a sad thing to say, I don’t like having to say it, but If you go and look for ""tips on making rpg bosses" in any forums that deal with amateur fanmade rpgs

usually on the top of the list is

“don’t just give your end bosses, ridiculously annoying healthpools and stats”

uhm, what do you call the mob’s in dungeons currently? I mean if amateur game designers know this is a TERRIBLE design move, what made you guys think you could make it and not receive critique?

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Posted by: Oxe.6142

Oxe.6142

“The “diminished returns anti-speed clear tech” that went in last patch is NOT functioning as intended. It is currently bugged. We’re working on it, and will have a solution as soon as possible.”

Robert Hrouda

The forum tools aren’t showing up so I can’t quote normally, that’s why it’s old fashioned.

Does this mean that it’s unintentionally more restrictive than it’s supposed to be? Or less? Sorry, but simply saying it’s bugged and not working as intended doesn’t convey what the intent actually is. I’m just seeking clarification.

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Posted by: Robert Hrouda.1327

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Robert Hrouda.1327

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Yeah, forum bugs are awesome, Oxe. It’s happening to me as well.

It is MORE restrictive than it is intended to be.

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Posted by: Oxe.6142

Oxe.6142

In reference to the above post (I can’t edit it, again because the tools aren’t showing up) I found the answer to my question.

I was looking for it in the “News and announcements” forum and it wasn’t there. You guys should really work on your communication and put stuff in one place so people know where to find it.

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Posted by: Oxe.6142

Oxe.6142

Right on, thanks for a quick answer to that Robert. I also wanted to go more in depth to my comment about your communication.

I found this article through Reddit, which Arena Net trained me to use to find out information in game. My fist stop was there. That brought me to this forum post. From there, I know you’ve been posting patch notes in the “News and Announcements” forum, so if it’s not on Reddit now, I look there. Then I when I tried to figure out where this post was, that Reddit led me to, that’s when I found the stickies at the top of this forum which already had the information to answer my question. You can see, that’s a pretty convoluted way to get information.

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Posted by: Ralidyn.2961

Ralidyn.2961

@Trinnidad: "This has been one of the most successful mmo launches in history but most people cannot grasp what it means to flush out a game. "

I believe you meant “flesh out a game”, although flushing it out (ie. the players) is exactly what they will be doing with this change.

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Posted by: miya.5160

miya.5160

Did they remove the diminishing returns system while trying to fix it?

All I have to say is, “Thank goodness Borderlands 2 and MoP are coming out,” because I love Guild Wars 2 and would hate to ruin my experience by playing through this mess.

Well, at least we know the diminishing returns system is just broken, and Arena Net is not out of touch. Also, while balancing for the economy and powergaming playerbase is necessary, please do not lose sight of the average player and their having fun. Diablo 3 did it, and even my friend who works at Blizzard and was going on and on about Diablo 3’s release doesn’t even talk about it anymore. It’s taboo to even talk about it.

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Posted by: Strill.2591

Strill.2591

Hey folks,

I figured it was already posted on this thread, but in the case that it is not posted and/or lost in the threadnaught, I am going to reiterate something that seemed to surprise people in another thread.

The “diminished returns anti-speed clear tech” that went in last patch is NOT functioning as intended. It is currently bugged. We’re working on it, and will have a solution as soon as possible.

What about the Dynamic Event diminishing returns or the loot farming diminishing returns? I’ve hit the dynamic event cap every single day for the past four days without repeating any events. This is killing my ability to get karma for my legendary.

(edited by Strill.2591)

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Posted by: Strzalka.9451

Strzalka.9451

Why is it, that if a team of players have the playing ability and coordination to complete ‘difficult’ content in a fast manor, that they should be penalised? …

Because your not completing ‘difficult’ content in a fast manor, your bypassing it. I did the speed runs a few times and I moved on to something else, because I did not find it fun. I didn’t feel like I was even playing the game.

Now my opinion should have no bearing on what others think is fun, and I understand that. But I do have a problem with how skewed the economy became from the mass farming of this dungeon… anything that drops in CoF dropped massively in price, and the market became flooded. Everyone and their mother is now running around with the CoF armor, which makes it.. in my opinion, not rare or cool. Quite honestly, I have lost respect for anyone I see wearing it, which is unfair to those individuals because they might be cool people.. but based on what I saw of the speed runs of CoF, those people have earned something that was supposed to be unique and rare… for nothing.

And those speed runs did not require ability or coordination.. I joined a pug, 3 of whom didn’t even speak English. I followed them, and then I followed the instructions for the events. And completed it as easily as I run through metrica province as a level 80.

Personally, I think they should make it so that mobs in dungeons have no tether, that way there is no avoiding content. Everything else they could keep the same.

But whatever, just my opinion on the matter. I think Honor of the Waves is infinitely more fun and challenging, and I’m not worried about how long it takes to get a full set of the armor.

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Posted by: ozelgoze.3812

ozelgoze.3812

Okay it’s at page 16 right now and i guess 50 post in each page. And we still couldn’t get any respond to our feedbacks. GREAT.

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Posted by: Stratto.3869

Stratto.3869

I see A LOT of examples of Anet saying: “This is not what we designed (insert supposed problem here) to be.” I.E I see examples of what you didn’t design these issues to do, but I don’t see a clear (or even vague) statement of what Anet DOES want them to do.

It’s obvious they want things to take longer…. but when you change things to take longer… that makes getting anything relativity fast a “Grind” as it were.

Be fore people come out of the bulwark with fallacies such as: “If you don’t like it don’t play” or “then don’t grind” I want to address comments such as these and show you why they aren’t even addressing the issue and in fact aren’t even valid.

First off things like: “If you don’t like it don’t play”

Either you didn’t PAY for the game yourself, or you just don’t value the money you earned. I’ll give you an example: You see a movie in theaters, several months later it comes out on blue ray. You purchase said movie and upon viewing it notice they took the scenes you liked OUT of the blue ray cut. Now a person who valued the money they spent would take it back an insist on a refund. But if the movie was given as a gift said person wouldn’t feel the need to get money back that they didn’t spend. So if you are the latter you have absolutely no right to talk to the former, get me?

Now things like: “then don’t grind”
Welp, either you haven’t reached endgame, haven’t tried endgame, or aren’t one for aesthetics. If you don’t care how you look then YOU are the minority. Most MMO players care Deeply for how their avatar is perceived. The most common use of the word “Grind” comes from describing farming mobs, repeatable quests and so on. In GW2 Grinding mobs is just NOT how you get anything. You need to acquire Gold and level crafting. -By the time you are lvl 80 usually you have at least 1 Craft up to 400- Back in my day of gaming it was common practice to do things you borderline hated in a game in order to acquire what you wanted. “Don’t grind” is such a vague argument that I don’t know how it is used to commonly, it’s an uninformed, uneducated use of slang.

It’s fine they (Anet) want things to take longer, but if you are going to change the job, change the wages. Tone down the money sinks, and offer some avenues of generating wealth.

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Posted by: Morgoth.4573

Morgoth.4573

Is the dungeon “diminished returns anti-speed clear tech” the same tech as whats currently causing issues with dynamic events?

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Posted by: ozelgoze.3812

ozelgoze.3812

Agree + Lets say you want the cultural armor tier3 for your human thief, it costs more than 100 gold lol, i cant even hold 4 gold. Everything on vendors are expensive. And an minimal example: Guild armor costs 1gold. How can a decent guild member(lets say level 30) buy this item and gather money for their training books and other things? I do not say that give everything for free. I just say: You do not need to cut our earnings. Make it harder(i do not mean one shot kills put more tactical fights rather than making it impossible. Forexample you do a good job on envirmental tactics like in CM where you need to get the air gun to kill the rocket turrets or the traps + mobs who does more damage to moving targets..)

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Posted by: Quiznos.4296

Quiznos.4296

When the bug’s are corrected with the rewards system is there any change we could receive what the actual payout should be? I’m talking raw numbers; it would help us to help you. Also, it would keep us from complaining about how your patch is awful and too harsh (unless it is), and instead post bug reports. Even If it’s a complicated formula; I don’t care.
Something like exp = (20% of exp earned since character creation + 1,034*minutes taken for completion) * .5^(number of consecutive completions)[/i] for example.

If you can’t (or aren’t willing to divulge such information to the player base) and explanation of why would at the very least be appreciated.

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Posted by: Aelelan.1639

Aelelan.1639

This is great news!
Though, my own personal conspiracy theory is I think ANET was also trying to study how players complete these dungeons.
A holy-trinity-meta hasn’t been discovered yet, or at least it’s very low profile. So in the process of fixing the dungeons, I think ANET has also been studying how players compete against overpowered foes.
In other words, I think they’re collecting data to design better content in the future.
Just my own conspiracy theory here… xD

This isn’t much of a conspiracy theory. I’m personally pretty much 100% positive that this is the case. Dungeons have a potential to be amazing – that’s evident even with their current state. Though they’re far from perfect right now, I suspect the next dungeon we see from Anet will have a better idea of how they should be run. That’s what I’m hoping at any rate, but I’m very confident it will happen.

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Posted by: Jormungandr.7963

Jormungandr.7963

A few short days ago I was running CM. It’s how I was choosing to level at the time. I was meeting new people all the time, it didn’t feel like a grind, and it was fun coming up with strategies to beat the different mobs we encountered.

Today I tried to run CM again. I have to say I was very disappointed. Very. It would appear the mobs can now knock you back and do massive damage to you (killing my strategy of blocking the ambush in the door and killing them off with massive AOE, which really was a good idea, oops cant anymore I get knocked back.) In fact the damage on everything seems to have been increased. My damage output at the same time seems to have decreased slightly. You have added new mobs, champions, new spawns, snipers (why would you include those?) one of the snipers hit a fellow player for over 5k damage.

I don’t know what playtests you were running but he was a lvl 44 geared down to 40. This is story mode? I find that hard to believe. You have stated that you allow players to play how they want and level how they want. Well, looks like you changed that idea didn’t you? CM was a relatively good money maker for me and gave good xp on top of that.

So, thank you for that.

That’s my rant.