Lupicus using grub skill on necro minions

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Posted by: Robert Hrouda.1327

Robert Hrouda.1327

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Hey folks, I can’t seem to find the thread, but there was one that asked about necro reanimator trait, and lupicus using his grub skill on them. This behavior effected Necro minions, Mesmer clones, Ranger pets, and even the follower NPC.
I’ve now modified the skill so that it will only target players from now on as a priority before looking at minions/pets/turrets/NPCs.

I’d like to ask that if anyone finds a monster/boss whose mechanics unfairly target pets and minions, to please post about it here in this thread, and I will try to look into them to see what can be done.

EDIT:
This work has not been patched into the game yet.

MORE EDITS:
Jade Maw: I’m leaving the beam as it is for the moment on the jade maw. There’s arguments for both sides, but there is also intentional gameplay in using pets/turrets/minions that I’d rather rather not nuke, that I think is actually pretty clever.

Subject Alpha: His ice attack AOE will primarily target players, and NPCs shouldn’t get the rings either, which means you shouldn’t see the ice attack even happen on clones/pets/minions/npc.

Fractal Jelly: Now will only try to eat players if they are around.

CoE Bjarrl the Rampager: Rush attack will now only target players.

Arrah Dwayna Sparks: Will try to attack the closest player. They might default from time to time to attacking pets, but the behavior should be greatly tightened up.

(edited by Robert Hrouda.1327)

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Posted by: Exanime.6438

Exanime.6438

Jade maw in the fractals Jade sea targets pets and other non players that it can sometimes take a long time to use the crystals on him. Sorta like lupicus’ grubs I’d say.

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Posted by: Rising Dusk.2408

Rising Dusk.2408

Thanks, Rob! Now I won’t feel so bad bringing my Necromancer out against GL!

If you want something else to look at in this regard, check out Subject Alpha. I’ve noticed that a couple of his skills seem to spawn excess red rings of AOE death for each summon around, unfairly restricting those builds against him when he uses them. It’s tough to verify for sure, though, because he spawns a ton of those rings, but so long as you look into it and check one way or the other will be good enough. Thanks again!

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Posted by: Strifey.7215

Strifey.7215

Subject Alpha in CoE is correct.

Guard/War/Mesmer and Dungeon Guides:
https://www.youtube.com/user/strife025

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Posted by: Alistair.9324

Alistair.9324

Great fix. Thanks Robert.

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Posted by: Feandro.5264

Feandro.5264

Jade Maw targetting pets with his laser merely prolongs the fight, doesn’t give a disadvantage to the team the same way Lupicus does. Subject Alpha targetting with his crystal is entirely beneficial to the team though.

These two things aren’t inbalanced in the mobs favor, they’re in the players favor, and personally think they are fine.

Edit: Never really noticed Alpha adding more attack circles depending on the number of clones/pets you have, then again, I rarely see necros in that dungeon.

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Posted by: randomfightfan.4091

randomfightfan.4091

dayum gota love rob, fixing arah when no one else will

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Posted by: Kami.7369

Kami.7369

Thanks, Rob! Now I won’t feel so bad bringing my Necromancer out against GL!

If you want something else to look at in this regard, check out Subject Alpha. I’ve noticed that a couple of his skills seem to spawn excess red rings of AOE death for each summon around, unfairly restricting those builds against him when he uses them. It’s tough to verify for sure, though, because he spawns a ton of those rings, but so long as you look into it and check one way or the other will be good enough. Thanks again!

The ring that SA spawns is on everyone, including the NPC, and all pets.

Ran it once with a Mesmer, Ranger and Necromancer. As a melee Guardian, I was lucky to not die.

Jonlo Vangalen
Getof Fenris – Blackgate
http://getoffenris.com/

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Posted by: Kamahl.3621

Kamahl.3621

Jade Maw targetting pets with his laser merely prolongs the fight, doesn’t give a disadvantage to the team the same way Lupicus does. Subject Alpha targetting with his crystal is entirely beneficial to the team though.

These two things aren’t inbalanced in the mobs favor, they’re in the players favor, and personally think they are fine.

I’m gonna second that you don’t change this, I purposefully drop Supply Crate on higher level fractals when he downs my friends with the party-wide spectral agony (so I can more likely be safe while I rez up my friends). When I see that skull over a turret, I strike a ;D face.

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Posted by: Samug.6512

Samug.6512

Subject Alpha in CoE casts he’s AoEs on mesmer clones and illusions, I’m sure of that.

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Posted by: KratosAngel.7289

KratosAngel.7289

Subject Alpha : targetting pets/clones/minions etc …with AOE (which makes a bit more “difficult” but not so much) and also targets them with crystal (which makes it easier, don’t know if intended or not)

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Posted by: Robert Hrouda.1327

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Robert Hrouda.1327

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I’ll look into Jade Maw targeting and Alpha targeting.

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Posted by: Feandro.5264

Feandro.5264

Just Remember
Lupicus Grub Spawning on Minions – Bad
Subject Alpha AoE spamming on Minions – Bad
Subject Alpha Crystalizing Minions – Good
Jade Maw Lazering Minions – Relieves pressure from the team, extends fight (so both)

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Posted by: Robert Hrouda.1327

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Robert Hrouda.1327

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Aye, I’ll make judgement calls on them when I look into them.

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Posted by: Ithir Darkleaf.7923

Ithir Darkleaf.7923

Thank you so much for looking at this issue Robert, my faith in ArenaNet is raising

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Posted by: Writetyper.1985

Writetyper.1985

“Anet never fixes anything waaah a bloo bloo bloo.”

Anyway, relevant, I had a similar but still quite seperate problem with Lupi last night: We were trying the stack method to get through phase 1, and he would spontaneously heal. We theorized that it was because of the thief getting knocked down, his minor trait deployed a “smoke bomb” on knockdown which stealthed the whole group (because we were stacked), meaning lupi had no targets and reset, but we never got to test this theorem because everyone rage quit. Obviously workaround-able (not using the stack method, leaving the thief behind) but still, I don’t see why we should have to avoid using the best strategy for P1 just because of a minor trait which he can’t turn off.

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Posted by: Oglaf.1074

Oglaf.1074

Does it target the NPC you bring with you?

Because I am in the habit of leaving them for dead for just that reason until Mr Giant Dog Thing is dealt with.

I can do thirty Five-Dolyak Arm Curls.

Do you even lift, bro?

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Posted by: RandomHominid.3456

RandomHominid.3456

Jellyfish Beast in the Aquatic Ruins fractal targets ranger pets and eats them. This is a pain for the group, and the only ranged underwater pet is a devourer (I think).

Ran it once with a Mesmer, Ranger and Necromancer. As a melee Guardian, I was lucky to not die.

Just wait 1 second after red rings covering the floor appear and dodge. You don’t have to move out of the rings (excluding dragon’s tooth).

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Posted by: Writetyper.1985

Writetyper.1985

Does it target the NPC you bring with you?

Because I am in the habit of leaving them for dead for just that reason until Mr Giant Dog Thing is dealt with.

He said in the original post that if an NPC is present, lupi will target players before NPCs.

I’ve now modified the skill so that it will only target players from now on as a priority before looking at minions/pets/turrets/NPCs.

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Posted by: stof.9341

stof.9341

Fractal Jellyfish : eats ranger pets which do not struggle so it stays in the “eating” phase a looong time taking barely no damage.

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Posted by: vonBoomslang.8296

vonBoomslang.8296

Underwater Fractal, jellyfish boss – if it eats a Ranger pet, it’ll digest it for the maximum duration, taking 10% damage and regenerating health all the while.

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Posted by: Robert Hrouda.1327

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I will look into the jellyfish as well. good catch!

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Posted by: Iridiana.9078

Iridiana.9078

At Simin Priest of Dwayna you can’t do nothing as a Ranger cause your PET keeps aggroing this kitten sparks and then they don’t fit around the statue.
There nothing, nothing, more frustrating in this game than trying to fight Dwayna with a Ranger.
I don’t think ranger’s pet need an aggro fix, I think you have to let us rangers hide our pet if we want to and let him spawn again when we desire. Now we are forced to always keep the pet with us if we are in combat. Let us fight and move alone if we want.

Iridiana – Sylvari Ranger
Server: Piken Square
Leader of Dark Shines [Dsh]

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Posted by: Shuguard.7125

Shuguard.7125

General Molradovich, dredge boss path 3 who puts fire rings on players can also put them on the npc and pets which caused a few mishaps. >.>

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Posted by: Shinki.8045

Shinki.8045

While you’re looking into NPCs in dungeons can you also consider investigating some of their other intrusive behaviours? Like pulling groups players didn’t intend to, crowding melee when mobs have bouncing attacks, not letting bosses reset when the rest of the team have backed out of an encounter, stopping your combat and movement/dodge because you accidentally clicked on them and started a conversation, being a target for AoE abilities at all while they stand in the group, etc. etc.

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Posted by: Nebilim.5127

Nebilim.5127

Some stuff that came to my head

Jotun boss in path 1 aggroing pets
Bjorl(ice boss) in coe path 1 aggroing clones and pets and not charging at pillars near players
Alphard, Serpent of the Waves in path 2 of arah. Her special move keep bouncing in misplaced pets, clones killing everyone at once.

The world is teeming with unnecessary people.
It is God’s decision that i fight.
As knight of honor, as protector of the sin. I sacrifice myself, for the blood of criminals.

(edited by Nebilim.5127)

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Posted by: Hobocop.1508

Hobocop.1508

Old Tom in the Uncatagorized fractal occasionally shoots a bouncing lightning bolt that can bounce off pets/minions, potentially hitting nearby players multiple times.

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Posted by: Rawrg.5162

Rawrg.5162

Jade Maw targetting pets with his laser merely prolongs the fight, doesn’t give a disadvantage to the team the same way Lupicus does.

In fact, it can give an advantage. I have purposefully spawned or shattered clones depending on the fight. If some people had low AR and are dead, I make clones to up the odds of avoiding us until we get everyone up. Personally I like the mechanic.

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Posted by: Oglaf.1074

Oglaf.1074

Bjorl(ice boss) in coe path 1 aggroing clones and pets and not charging at pillars near players

Haha, that’s so annoying. He becomes nearly impossible to do with a Mesmer in your group!

I can do thirty Five-Dolyak Arm Curls.

Do you even lift, bro?

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Posted by: Fay.2735

Fay.2735

Thanks for fixing this Robert Now I won’t have to alt-tab auto-attack lupicus in phase 1 anymore because I can’t spawn any of my clones. As for the original that I think you are talking about it’s here:

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/dungeons/Reanimator-necro-trait-and-lupicus/first#post607330

I think the biggest issue mesmers have with clones is that so many bosses do AOE effects that they are destroyed very quickly making phantasm builds pretty ineffective in dungeons though I don’t see how you could fix this other than making it so AOE heavy bosses do less damage to clones specifically (Though I don’t run a phantasm build myself I can’t imagine Subject Alpha being fun with one of these builds).

Also I’d love to know why my ‘Clone when Dodge’ clone LOVES the seal at the end boss in the cliffside fractal? Any time I create a clone when dodging it always runs off to the seal continously knocking itself down against the protective bubble (which is rather amusing if ineffective).

I know this is probably unrelated to dungeons and more a mesmer issue as I’ve seen it happen before but my clones seem to REALLY love these seals no matter if I have the boss targeted where as normally it seems to fix itself as I hit my target more.

Oh and I second this:

I love you Robert.

EU: Lilyfay (Fay.2735) – US: Lunae Fay (Fay.2357) – 5000+- Hrs Played —
•.¸¸.•*¨*•.¸¸.••.¸¸.•*¨*•.¸¸.•—www.mesmerguides.com—•.¸¸.•*¨*•.¸¸.••.¸¸.•*¨*•.¸¸.•

(edited by Fay.2735)

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Posted by: Melon.8410

Melon.8410

Thanks!

This isn’t mob related, but could you consider making skills that affect allies (shouts, heals, etc) target your party first? It kind of sucks being at a world boss trying to toss a heal on my dying party member and having all of the other people around get the effect instead. ;x

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Posted by: rhodoc.2381

rhodoc.2381

Also there needs a overhaul on all helping npcs, since they die in 1 nanosecond when they engage in boss fights.

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Posted by: Miyu.8137

Miyu.8137

Since players rezistances don’t count fot pets, then it’s unfair as well. Specially on higher lvl fractals pets are like 1 hited by agony even players having 30 rezistances. There is no chance to keep pets alive.

But after all, every time my pet gets agro it’s unfair, cause it can’t protect itself (dodge roll, flank, make 2 steps to a side to avoid the aoe). Specially in any boss fight it’s unfair cause pets are like 1-hited. Sure I can call it off, but then the pet is useless.

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Posted by: Ruien.9506

Ruien.9506

1)Subject Alpha.
2)The pirate mesmer in Path 2 of Arah and her 1 shot orbs. They will hit a clone or pet and ricochet to anyone near them.
3)The elementals at Sinin path 4 arah
4) Every tree endboss in TA

Those 4 are the main offenders.

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Posted by: Manasa Devi.7958

Manasa Devi.7958

Since players rezistances don’t count fot pets, then it’s unfair as well. Specially on higher lvl fractals pets are like 1 hited by agony even players having 30 rezistances. There is no chance to keep pets alive.

But after all, every time my pet gets agro it’s unfair, cause it can’t protect itself (dodge roll, flank, make 2 steps to a side to avoid the aoe). Specially in any boss fight it’s unfair cause pets are like 1-hited. Sure I can call it off, but then the pet is useless.

Yep, pets are quite dreadful. They are at best useless and at worst a liability and a hindrance.

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Posted by: Turial.1293

Turial.1293

Hey folks, I can’t seem to find the thread, but there was one that asked about necro reanimator trait, and lupicus using his grub skill on them. This behavior effected Necro minions, Mesmer clones, Ranger pets, and even the follower NPC.
I’ve now modified the skill so that it will only target players from now on as a priority before looking at minions/pets/turrets/NPCs.

I’d like to ask that if anyone finds a monster/boss whose mechanics unfairly target pets and minions, to please post about it here in this thread, and I will try to look into them to see what can be done.

EDIT:
This work has not been patched into the game yet.

I have to say Rob that you are the single most useful dev poster on these forums, every time you post it is with great news or if not, we can feel like you are really doing your best to fix things. Rarely have I seen one of the copy-paste responses from you if at all. You really do go above and beyond for players such as bringing up a thread like this so THANK YOU from everyone, oh and that little edit is so useful that it stops another 6 pages of the same question or whinging that it is not working so kudos for the foresight.

I will look into the jellyfish as well. good catch!

Also, terrible pun :P

“Some of my best friends are heterosexual”
Whispers of Acoma Homepage - Crystal Desert

(edited by Turial.1293)

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Posted by: Robert Hrouda.1327

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I will look into the jellyfish as well. good catch!

Also, great pun :P

Fixed.

UPDATE:
In the original post I updated the things I looked into and adjusted or didn’t adjust.

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Posted by: lupercaleb.6041

lupercaleb.6041

are you a wizard rob

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Posted by: Sillybaka.8021

Sillybaka.8021

Please reconsider Jade Maw! Speaking from a Ranger’s perspective, I do not want my pet being targetted by his eye laser. I cannot stow my pet while in combat, so my options are to either stand on the sidelines, out of combat being useless while everyone else is killing the tentacles/colossi just, or to stand in combat, with the pet merely delaying and dragging the fight on by being targetted. Having the pet one-shotted by an unavoidable eye beam just compounds onto the already poor survivability of ranger pets with most hard hitting attacks such as Agony just wrecking them (for some reason, the pet window displays Agony Resist but it’s impossible for them to inherit any)

If you will not change his targetting mechanics, can you at least consider the fact that it targets pets which are already downed, Rob?

(edited by Sillybaka.8021)

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Posted by: lupercaleb.6041

lupercaleb.6041

at the least there ought be a choice involved other than sitting out the fight. mesmers can adapt to the situation with whether or not they’ll summon illusions, but rangers have no choice

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Posted by: Rising Dusk.2408

Rising Dusk.2408

Did you also look into the fire spell rings on Alpha, or just the ice spell rings? If the fire spell rings are also in-line, good on ya’. Just trying to make sure that it’s all working as intended. Thanks for your diligence!

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Posted by: Feida.2163

Feida.2163

Just want to also bring up in Arah, path 1 the waypoint at shogroth doesnt always appear. As well if the NPC gets hit by any fire on the final boss the door to the observatory will not open.

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Posted by: RandomHominid.3456

RandomHominid.3456

Another one: Ice elemental or Dredge Mining Suit boss in dredge fractal. It is preferred that no member use any kind of pet on this fight because the boss will target the pet and screw up the kiting for this boss. This just makes the fight go that much slower, and mesmers pretty much stuck using no illusion-generating attacks unless they immediately shatter afterwards.

In higher level fractals, players using pets get yelled at by party members.

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Posted by: KratosAngel.7289

KratosAngel.7289

I second two posts above :
1) Targetting of pets/clones …. on dredge final boss
2) Targetting of pets/clones …. by Jade

As a mesmer, I would like to see both got ridden of, especially for Jade. I’m quite bored of being blamed “omg Kratos don’t use clones noob it’s getting longer” “omg don’t spawn clones, boss will chase them”.
I have even already been threatened to be kicked at Jade because I was using clones …
But seriously, clones are at the heart of mesmer’s mechanics. Is it intended that we cannot do anything but spam 1 on such encounters ?

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Posted by: Auesis.7301

Auesis.7301

I second two posts above :
1) Targetting of pets/clones …. on dredge final boss
2) Targetting of pets/clones …. by Jade

As a mesmer, I would like to see both got ridden of, especially for Jade. I’m quite bored of being blamed “omg Kratos don’t use clones noob it’s getting longer” “omg don’t spawn clones, boss will chase them”.
I have even already been threatened to be kicked at Jade because I was using clones …
But seriously, clones are at the heart of mesmer’s mechanics. Is it intended that we cannot do anything but spam 1 on such encounters ?

In relation to the Maw, your groups don’t sound that friendly. I relish Mesmers and Rangers in our guild group, because quite simply, it’s less of a hassle overall when going to take out tentacles and bring back crystals. I don’t have to worry about being targeted while out on my own as much.

I agree with the Dredge boss, though. Withdrawn aggro can kill the flow of that fight.

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Posted by: Kalea.9167

Kalea.9167

Fractal Jellyfish : eats ranger pets which do not struggle so it stays in the “eating” phase a looong time taking barely no damage.

I meant to report this ages ago. Thanks for bringing this up.

What we discovered was that you really had to watch your pet and basically swap pets to force the pet to stop being eaten, the equivalent of struggling free. Of course if your pet swap functionality was on CD you were out of luck.

It would be great if pets were not targeted by this attack simply because they won’t auto-struggle. And if they did, it’s too “easy” on the party.

As for Simin/Path 4 Arah…
Yes please do whatever you can for the sparks not to glom on to Ranger Pets, Necro pets, or the NPC. It’s to the point now that I can’t get a response from people in pugs for that path on my ranger, and with guildies I get asked to bring my less geared mesmer instead because of the pet issue.

Also with mesmer clones, it’s nice to have my usual trait up for dodging to create a clone but in this fight it’s impossible. Dodge out of AOE on the way to get to position for a spark and … the clone is still there when you come back with a spark. Not good.

Can’t tell you how many times we’ve forced the NPC in Arah to die just to get rid of him for a boss fight. It’s just horrid, and people get SO angry if he gets rez’d either for Lupi or Dwayan or whoever. And if he is dead, you run too far away from the boss and back he pops up alive. Or someone in the party drops on top of the NPC and you rez the NPC by mistake, and suddenly you can’t get sparks in because of him. Just an absolute nightmare.

Also I noticed you mentioned these weren’t live. I hope they do get mentioned in patch notes when they go live, I know some people are to the point they won’t go near path 4 until there are changes of some kind or another. Would be good to know when I can start begging again.

(edited by Kalea.9167)

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Posted by: haviz.1340

haviz.1340

Can’t tell you how many times we’ve forced the NPC in Arah to die just to get rid of him for a boss fight. It’s just horrid, and people get SO angry if he gets rez’d either for Lupi or Dwayan or whoever. And if he is dead, you run too far away from the boss and back he pops up alive. Or someone in the party drops on top of the NPC and you rez the NPC by mistake, and suddenly you can’t get sparks in because of him. Just an absolute nightmare.

Until anet fixes it, if you wipe at lupi while Randall was dead, and all of you choose to respawn, he’ll respawn as well. But if one of you remains dead and wait for rez when everyone else comes back, he’ll stay rez.

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Quite recently I used my minions in the Jade Maw fight to give us the best chance of avoiding a wipe. Two of our group had either disconnected or quit on earlier fractals so we didn’t have the DPS to take down the tentacles as quickly to ensure a steady supply of crystals. Since at that portion of the fight, the laser comes much more frequently, I summoned up as many minions as I could while trying to rez allies after they were downed (typically due to a tentacle knocking them down right before laser).

Yeah, definitely do not remove this option. I can see it being fixed so it does not target downed ranger pets (as rangers have no choice but to have them), but do not remove the ability for it to target other things.

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram
Charr Necro with a penchant for marking walls
Unless you are very meticulous on grammar and spelling, please do not post from your phone.

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Posted by: Kalea.9167

Kalea.9167

Until anet fixes it, if you wipe at lupi while Randall was dead, and all of you choose to respawn, he’ll respawn as well. But if one of you remains dead and wait for rez when everyone else comes back, he’ll stay rez.

Learned this “behavior” the hard way. Not what I expected. I am by no means inexperienced, just … with the idiosyncracies of the way it works in GW2. Which is to say, no, I haven’t lived in dungeons to learn all the workarounds. I do them, I do them quickly and get out. I guess I’ve been lucky.

But thank you for confirming this suspicion; last time it happened I was indeed to the point ‘just leave me dead guys, and rez me when you get in here.’

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Posted by: KratosAngel.7289

KratosAngel.7289

Quite recently I used my minions in the Jade Maw fight to give us the best chance of avoiding a wipe. Two of our group had either disconnected or quit on earlier fractals so we didn’t have the DPS to take down the tentacles as quickly to ensure a steady supply of crystals. Since at that portion of the fight, the laser comes much more frequently, I summoned up as many minions as I could while trying to rez allies after they were downed (typically due to a tentacle knocking them down right before laser).

Yeah, definitely do not remove this option. I can see it being fixed so it does not target downed ranger pets (as rangers have no choice but to have them), but do not remove the ability for it to target other things.

I cannot understand this, what’s the point in playing time like that ?
First, it’s random, does not assure you to give time and second, you have other ways to save time :
1) just dodge the attack (pretty easy when you learned the timing, always possible unless you are very bad)
2) use invulnerable CD (easiest, but not always up)
3) just pick up a crystal if there’s any, get hit, but do not throw it : you can absorb as many attacks as you want.

Provided those 3 reasons, I fail to see why it should still target pets/minions/clones …
Don’t forget that those bugs are crippling for rangers, necros and mesmers, who cannot play properly …