The CoF Buff: My opinions

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Crucifer.2831

Crucifer.2831

So over the next 24 hours there is going to be a flood of extremely kitten off PvEr’s coming to this forum once they wake up and realize CoF is near impossible to run feasibly.

There is a few large issues I have with how ANET handled this situation:

1 – No advanced notice or Patch Notes informing players of impending buffs.
2 – No PTR or testing of the buffed content to make sure it made sense.
3 – Buffing the wrong content inside the dungeon.
4 – Making massive diversity in player base from this point on.

Lets talk about these issues one by one:

1 – Weeks before you make a PvE change you need to notify the community one is coming so they can adjust and formulate what differences need to be done. You can’t just expect people to reboot walk in and then begin wondering if a zone is glitched or buggy or was it intended – This will be a source of a lot of moderation pain in the next 24 hours when 100s of thousands of players not knowing these changes occurred flood the forums disgruntled.

2 – YOU NEVER EVER release PvE changes without testing them first in a PTR environment. This is just bad practice written all over it. Even fledgling companies in the MMO market know better than to do a live buff on a live environment. This is a major development flaw and should be addressed as a priority one in-house questioning as to why a PTR environment does not exist.

3 – Lets look at CoF specifically – the one part of the entire instance that was already over-tuned (Kiting Event) was a cause of frustration because it was almost forceful repair bills. (This is always a horrible mechanic in any game…forcing death on players who are doing the mechanic correctly should be something no developer should ever hard code)

But to go and make it where you not only are forced to die but now must chain suicide to complete the event is obnoxiously awful. This means the run for geared individuals will cost anywhere from 9-15silver in repairs on top of a nerfed cash return means there will be little to no profit on running the entire instance.

Furthermore you buffed the wrong part of the zone…the problem was the final event and boss were too easy. You need enrage timers to make them somewhat challenging. Being able to reset the 4 flame legion mobs 10-12 times if need be should not be allowed. The room should become fire red circles of death filled and faster pace the longer the final boss stays alive.

The kiting event needed to be nerfed not buffed to the point where you could actually kite and feel like you were doing the mechanic correctly and being rewarded for it. If you wanted to make that event longer then you needed to nerf the damage of the mobs that are being kited…no class has enough cooldowns to take repeated 12K shots to the face by 20 mobs. A PTR environment would of told you this up front.

This was a kitten poor decision on ANets part without testing / pts environmental results to load a major PvE change into a LIVE game.

4 – Now you have set apart the community…those people who ran their 100 runs through CoF before this change who are now fully geared out and can run other non-buffed instances. And those people who can not farm the same gear to keep up with the other players in the game because they can’t complete CoF…let alone in a timely manner.

You should of just put a lockout timer on CoF / all dungeons…5 runs a day or something normal. Not worried about making the dungeon impossible for fresh 80s / PUGs.

Now you have geared groups of people spam running other dungeons and fresh 80s at a loss for what they are supposed to be doing to keep up with those people with pre-buffed CoF gear who don’t have lockouts in other instances to stop them from keep getting further ahead of the curve.

This is going to be a major source for a lot of fresh 80 players quitting this game. Esp. in a non-guild environment.

(edited by Moderator)

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: PrestonSwain.6219

PrestonSwain.6219

I completely agree with everything stated here.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: fellyn.5083

fellyn.5083

Excellent post. I’m one of those people who (un)fortuneately had the time to farm CoF to my hearts content the last week and got everything I needed from there. And this change even makes me skeptical at what Anet expects from it’s players.

It just doesn’t make any sense especially when you consider that most peoples biggest complaint about dungeons was that they already weren’t rewarding enough.

That was on average 2 runs per hour (thanks to the wonderful event you have to do to unlock the place) for 10 hours a day for almost 5 days straight. Taking into consideration that I never had to be picky with my groups it could have taken a lot longer and immeasurably more frustrating.

(edited by fellyn.5083)

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Gempulse.9463

Gempulse.9463

I completely disagree with everything stated here.

Run different paths and your rewards are restored. This patch is to prevent people from farming the same path over and over.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Crucifer.2831

Crucifer.2831

This has nothing to do with paths. This has everything to do with how this update was handled and what causes its going to have on the community.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Goomba.6248

Goomba.6248

FYI It’s not a kiting event, Never was intended to be one. People did it that way because you could kite the mobs and not have a problem. Its a Defend the NPC event, where you have to fight the mobs.

And you make it sound like CoF is the ONLY way to gear up as a “Fresh” level 80, there are numerous ways to gear.

The only 2 point you have are 1 and 2, but they are moot if 3 and 4 are not correct, thus your whole argument is meaningless. Sure I don’t like the update, but not because of these moot points you spew from your mouth, I don’t like it simply because it doesn’t fix anything

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Gempulse.9463

Gempulse.9463

This has nothing to do with paths. This has everything to do with how this update was handled and what causes its going to have on the community.

If people spent as much time learning their profession and forming a group of guild members to run explorable dungeons, as they did whining on the forums, you’d be amazed how far you get.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Zenyatoo.4059

Zenyatoo.4059

FYI It’s not a kiting event, Never was intended to be one. People did it that way because you could kite the mobs and not have a problem. Its a Defend the NPC event, where you have to fight the mobs.

And you make it sound like CoF is the ONLY way to gear up as a “Fresh” level 80, there are numerous ways to gear.

The only 2 point you have are 1 and 2, but they are moot if 3 and 4 are not correct, thus your whole argument is meaningless. Sure I don’t like the update, but not because of these moot points you spew from your mouth, I don’t like it simply because it doesn’t fix anything

The spawn rates for defense are ridiculous. People die when kiting, that is, when actively attempting to avoid as much damage as possible, teams still routinely wipe. Telling people that they should instead be fighting is ludicrous, monsters simply have way to much hp to actually be successfully killed during the time limit before they overwhelm you.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Massacrul.2016

Massacrul.2016

So… What else we can do to earn money now?

Farming is prohibited by anty-bot system…
Speed runs killed by buff and lowering rewards…

This is going better with every fricking day.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Lovebox.7504

Lovebox.7504

+1

Well said. ANet really needs to take a look at this post. It simply amazes me that they would make such a drastic change to PvE content without first testing it on a PTR.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Goomba.6248

Goomba.6248

FYI It’s not a kiting event, Never was intended to be one. People did it that way because you could kite the mobs and not have a problem. Its a Defend the NPC event, where you have to fight the mobs.

And you make it sound like CoF is the ONLY way to gear up as a “Fresh” level 80, there are numerous ways to gear.

The only 2 point you have are 1 and 2, but they are moot if 3 and 4 are not correct, thus your whole argument is meaningless. Sure I don’t like the update, but not because of these moot points you spew from your mouth, I don’t like it simply because it doesn’t fix anything

The spawn rates for defense are ridiculous. People die when kiting, that is, when actively attempting to avoid as much damage as possible, teams still routinely wipe. Telling people that they should instead be fighting is ludicrous, monsters simply have way to much hp to actually be successfully killed during the time limit before they overwhelm you.

Really? I have completed CoF with a group with 0 wipes, in this new patch, what did we do, we fought. A very organized fight. everyone knew what they had to kill and what they had to do. it’s really not that hard, just time consuming. You obviously don’t understand how the game mechanics work, and you’re obviously not utilizing combo fields and mass healing. I really hate it how you people come in here and cry all day about useless topics, Yes the dungeon system has problems. Is this a problem? NO, its not.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Crucifer.2831

Crucifer.2831

For ANets sake I wanted to put this here as I have calculated this out:

For Full Flame Legion Gear Requirements:

~1,770 Tokens – Approx 90 runs of CoF. (Depending on Weapon)
26 silver per run – Approx 24 gold return from 90 runs. (Pre-selling items / repairs)

20 min per run x 90 Runs = 30 hours of in-game time spent inside CoF not including 6 min event intervals.

If you had included a 5 run lockout system instead of ridiculous buffs then you would of made the time required to get gear from a minimum of 30 hours to a minimum of 18 days.

Do the math of which one would keep your player-base playing the game longer…

Server Side Auction Pricing for full Gear enhancements:

Guild Backpack – 5 gold
Amulet – 3 gold 50 silver
Accessories – 7 gold (for both)
Earrings – 7 gold (for both)

6 x Superior Runes for Gear – 12 gold total.
Exquisite Jewels for Accessories – 3 gold total

4 exotic Dyes (Black/Whites) – 14 gold
All Bank Slots – 14 gold
20 slot bags x 4 slots – 50 gold

Total Gold investment for end-game gear (Not including Legendaries):

116 gold

CoF by itself will only cover 24 gold of that. Not including repairs / items.

As well as not including maxing professions.

Do you think this really needed a Buff.

(edited by Crucifer.2831)

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Crucifer.2831

Crucifer.2831

FYI It’s not a kiting event, Never was intended to be one. People did it that way because you could kite the mobs and not have a problem. Its a Defend the NPC event, where you have to fight the mobs.

And you make it sound like CoF is the ONLY way to gear up as a “Fresh” level 80, there are numerous ways to gear.

The only 2 point you have are 1 and 2, but they are moot if 3 and 4 are not correct, thus your whole argument is meaningless. Sure I don’t like the update, but not because of these moot points you spew from your mouth, I don’t like it simply because it doesn’t fix anything

The spawn rates for defense are ridiculous. People die when kiting, that is, when actively attempting to avoid as much damage as possible, teams still routinely wipe. Telling people that they should instead be fighting is ludicrous, monsters simply have way to much hp to actually be successfully killed during the time limit before they overwhelm you.

Really? I have completed CoF with a group with 0 wipes, in this new patch, what did we do, we fought. A very organized fight. everyone knew what they had to kill and what they had to do. it’s really not that hard, just time consuming. You obviously don’t understand how the game mechanics work, and you’re obviously not utilizing combo fields and mass healing. I really hate it how you people come in here and cry all day about useless topics, Yes the dungeon system has problems. Is this a problem? NO, its not.

There is no way you fought the mobs in the Kiting event…The mitigation down to the level 75 statistics means that you won’t output anywhere near enough damage to kill the mobs as fast as they spawn.

You are trying to cause trouble by lying please stop.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Reynfall.1547

Reynfall.1547

/agree with the OP

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Crucifer.2831

Crucifer.2831

The bigger question is why the hell would you do something like this 1 week before WoW’s new expansion drops…you do not want to p*ss off the playerbase you have right now when the one huge competitor is just about to make a release =/

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Pandemonium.6453

Pandemonium.6453

Really? I have completed CoF with a group with 0 wipes, in this new patch, what did we do, we fought. A very organized fight. everyone knew what they had to kill and what they had to do. it’s really not that hard, just time consuming. You obviously don’t understand how the game mechanics work, and you’re obviously not utilizing combo fields and mass healing. I really hate it how you people come in here and cry all day about useless topics, Yes the dungeon system has problems. Is this a problem? NO, its not.

So what you are trying to say is that dungeons are now only exclusive to those who are very organized (alienating the casual yet skilled players) and probably belong to established guilds and/or with communications software to properly coordinate actions?

If they intended CoF or any dungeon to be hard why do this now? Now not 3 weeks earlier.. Also there are several other glaring bugs that needs to be fixed as compared to “buffing” the dungeon.

CoF is not the only dungeon but its where the masses gather, Honor of Waves is actually a better dungeon and way easier than CoF with an organized group and earns you more money/loot per run at a speed of 20mins, why is that dugeon not “buffed” why did they only change CM and CoF?

Talk is cheap if you are able to beat CoF with your claims ( 0 wipes, not kiting the event before the boss fight and a well organized run ) then please post a video so you can be a solution to this problem, dont be a part of the problem as you already are presenting your self to be.

(edited by Pandemonium.6453)

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Fay.2735

Fay.2735

That path needed to be buffed, The flame armour is a joke now because people can grind it with ease. I’m glad they buffed path 2 I just wish they fixed the balancing issues of the last boss on path 1 has that makes it not completable without luck or certain party setups and fix the achievement not being given for path 3 because both actually block progress.

EU: Lilyfay (Fay.2735) – US: Lunae Fay (Fay.2357) – 5000+- Hrs Played —
•.¸¸.•*¨*•.¸¸.••.¸¸.•*¨*•.¸¸.•—www.mesmerguides.com—•.¸¸.•*¨*•.¸¸.••.¸¸.•*¨*•.¸¸.•

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: RTMPro.2869

RTMPro.2869

Crucifer, you took the words right out of my mouth

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: underpaidpyro.1809

underpaidpyro.1809

I for one welcome this change and look forward to an actual challenge. It was my understanding that exotic gear was there for the prestigious appearance and the smattering of stats you get compared to rare pieces was just a bonus. I still haven’t gotten around to clearing all paths in all dungeons but the last time I had this much fun in an MMO was the transition from BT to SWP in WoW.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Smigl.6178

Smigl.6178

With MOP knocking od doors this is a brave move from anet. I still have opinion that this game is farm fest that throws shadow on rest of great game. You should wait a bit more and finish that end game. Exploring 100% of world is not a thing thats high on my priority list…. every day there is less and less things to do.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Crucifer.2831

Crucifer.2831

I for one welcome this change and look forward to an actual challenge. It was my understanding that exotic gear was there for the prestigious appearance and the smattering of stats you get compared to rare pieces was just a bonus. I still haven’t gotten around to clearing all paths in all dungeons but the last time I had this much fun in an MMO was the transition from BT to SWP in WoW.

My understanding from all the pre-launch press was that the dungeons would be grindy 5 mans (excuses for not having raids) and that the giant world dragons that spawn every few hours would be your “Raid” content.

Instead the Dragons are a joke to most people and the farming is just to get gear for WvW where people feel the entire fun of the game actually is.

So there’s a lot of give and take on “what” these dungeons / gear were supposed to be and what they have become.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Riavan.2609

Riavan.2609

What we all should have realised, especially those of us who had played guild wars 1, is arenanet has no idea how to make decent dungeons and balance classes around it. This collin person, I assume is the same guy who was in charge of things like DoA, he gloats about how good DoA was in his post, LOL. DoA was a terrible craphole where the majority of it was skill less, super hard trash, that only the builds that arenanet left overpowered for months, near years, on end, could farm properly, and they did.

People won’t stick around if it’s left this way, too hard, for too little reward, no real pve content endgame, I really didn’t want to play wow again, I was hoping I wouldn’t buy pandaland, but I guess I am now.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Berelain.2308

Berelain.2308

What we all should have realised, especially those of us who had played guild wars 1, is arenanet has no idea how to make decent dungeons and balance classes around it. This collin person, I assume is the same guy who was in charge of things like DoA, he gloats about how good DoA was in his post, LOL. DoA was a terrible craphole where the majority of it was skill less, super hard trash, that only the builds that arenanet left overpowered for months, near years, on end, could farm properly, and they did.

Seems you haven’t played DoA enough, DoA is farmable with all clases, you just need to know how DoA was great in GW1, ursan was a mistake that they have fixed.

Guild Leader Gwens Red Iris Flowers [GRIS]
Commander Berelain sur Hoiya
Far Shiverpeaks

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Crucifer.2831

Crucifer.2831

If I was ANET I’d have this reversed immediately. Anyone who was judging either WoW vs GW2 for next week will not be a hard decision for them…even I could sit here and be like:

Well there is no longer any viable entry level end-game PvE and I know WoW has raids so as a PvEr I will just pick that up next Tuesday.

I was really enjoying GW2 up until they pulled this stunt…it shows ANet as a developer has no real idea what they are doing for end game development. Which can lead to much larger (Cough SWTOR cough) issues down the line.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Spawn.7014

Spawn.7014

agree. but sadly i expected this from this company.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Zenyatoo.4059

Zenyatoo.4059

FYI It’s not a kiting event, Never was intended to be one. People did it that way because you could kite the mobs and not have a problem. Its a Defend the NPC event, where you have to fight the mobs.

And you make it sound like CoF is the ONLY way to gear up as a “Fresh” level 80, there are numerous ways to gear.

The only 2 point you have are 1 and 2, but they are moot if 3 and 4 are not correct, thus your whole argument is meaningless. Sure I don’t like the update, but not because of these moot points you spew from your mouth, I don’t like it simply because it doesn’t fix anything

The spawn rates for defense are ridiculous. People die when kiting, that is, when actively attempting to avoid as much damage as possible, teams still routinely wipe. Telling people that they should instead be fighting is ludicrous, monsters simply have way to much hp to actually be successfully killed during the time limit before they overwhelm you.

Really? I have completed CoF with a group with 0 wipes, in this new patch, what did we do, we fought. A very organized fight. everyone knew what they had to kill and what they had to do. it’s really not that hard, just time consuming. You obviously don’t understand how the game mechanics work, and you’re obviously not utilizing combo fields and mass healing. I really hate it how you people come in here and cry all day about useless topics, Yes the dungeon system has problems. Is this a problem? NO, its not.

Im not utilizing combo fields?
My elementalist has 2 combo fields he can place down and I use them both regularly. My combo finishers are on 45 second and 30 second cooldowns, which means during the bomb fight i’ll get to use them once per spawn. So uh, im utilizing them as much as I can :<

as for mass healing I actually have that in spades. Ive got 3 large AOE heals every 10 seconds, party wide regen and protection, 2 AOE condition removals every 10 seconds, and then a much larger heal+condition removal every 40. But it’s still not enough to be keeping all party members up all the time. Especially not when smokelords like to hit my teammates for 9k.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Crucifer.2831

Crucifer.2831

FYI It’s not a kiting event, Never was intended to be one. People did it that way because you could kite the mobs and not have a problem. Its a Defend the NPC event, where you have to fight the mobs.

And you make it sound like CoF is the ONLY way to gear up as a “Fresh” level 80, there are numerous ways to gear.

The only 2 point you have are 1 and 2, but they are moot if 3 and 4 are not correct, thus your whole argument is meaningless. Sure I don’t like the update, but not because of these moot points you spew from your mouth, I don’t like it simply because it doesn’t fix anything

The spawn rates for defense are ridiculous. People die when kiting, that is, when actively attempting to avoid as much damage as possible, teams still routinely wipe. Telling people that they should instead be fighting is ludicrous, monsters simply have way to much hp to actually be successfully killed during the time limit before they overwhelm you.

Really? I have completed CoF with a group with 0 wipes, in this new patch, what did we do, we fought. A very organized fight. everyone knew what they had to kill and what they had to do. it’s really not that hard, just time consuming. You obviously don’t understand how the game mechanics work, and you’re obviously not utilizing combo fields and mass healing. I really hate it how you people come in here and cry all day about useless topics, Yes the dungeon system has problems. Is this a problem? NO, its not.

Im not utilizing combo fields?
My elementalist has 2 combo fields he can place down and I use them both regularly. My combo finishers are on 45 second and 30 second cooldowns, which means during the bomb fight i’ll get to use them once per spawn. So uh, im utilizing them as much as I can :<

as for mass healing I actually have that in spades. Ive got 3 large AOE heals every 10 seconds, party wide regen and protection, 2 AOE condition removals every 10 seconds, and then a much larger heal+condition removal every 40. But it’s still not enough to be keeping all party members up all the time. Especially not when smokelords like to hit my teammates for 9k.

HEY! We don’t talk about healing people in this game TRINITY is forbidden!

/sarcasm.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: rhodoc.2381

rhodoc.2381

If the final event is a DEFEND event, why not mobs attack Magg?

All you need to change mobs to agro Magg when Magg is closest to mobs, not change

the timer to 2x while mobs are roflstomping you…

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: conquista.1536

conquista.1536

im pretty sure the ones that dont really care are the people who already

a. have the full set
b. farmed their lvl 80 exotics with crafting mats (like I did, within a week and a half since launch)
c. don’t care and want to just judge everyone for “LOL, you are bad, go farm a different route”

first of all, I already have a lvl 80 exotic set, which was farmed with gold/crafted. I’ve had full lvl 80 exotics in less than 2weeks since launch.

This cof speed run has been out for how long? hell even I knew about it and didn’t do it till people asked me to come (whats the point, I had full lvl 80 exotics with 4 different exotic weapons I can use that arent ugly pearl weapon).

Yes the dungeon needed a tweeking, but atm its sort of a “casuals, tough luck! go farm gold or mats, grab lvl 80 exotics and hope you get people in a group that knows what needs to be done, in order to have a chance* at completing the new 2nd run” it was either this or do a different route, which still takes an x amount of time + coordination with above average gears (i consider above average at least lvl 70+ exotics or maybe even lvl 80 rares)

Now i’m not saying people should be only farming route 2, but to make it so its near impossible for “casuals” is sort of an overboard. It also became more buggy. You’d expect to fail certain parts when there are “new” explorer mode players in the party, but to make it so an npc randomly freezes so you’d have to restart the whole dungeon, would make people more frustrated. On top of that as OP said, doing a suicide graveyard run to complete a part of the dungeon, while spending x amount of silver for repairs is not a well made game design. Spending x amount of silver to kill a boss is much better than running around in circles timing when to die so the person that died has x amount of time to come back before the next person dies, to continue the aggro off Magg.

People that already farmed the cof speed run will probably look at it and go, “kitten good thing i finished my set before this happened.”

The idea of buffing dungeons wasn’t a total bad idea, but slashing the rewards down as well wasn’t a great idea also. What you could’ve done was make it give less for doing route 2 (since it was a really short dungeon run), to match the reward for doing other routes, which took that much longer. Since they’d still be getting tokens and you have to consider those (the casuals) who can only have an hr or two to play each day or once every couple days.

that’s my thought on this dungeon patch. I’d expect some tweaking here and there in future.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: jeno.6435

jeno.6435

For ANets sake I wanted to put this here as I have calculated this out:

For Full Flame Legion Gear Requirements:

~1,770 Tokens – Approx 90 runs of CoF. (Depending on Weapon)
26 silver per run – Approx 24 gold return from 90 runs. (Pre-selling items / repairs)

20 min per run x 90 Runs = 30 hours of in-game time spent inside CoF not including 6 min event intervals.

If you had included a 5 run lockout system instead of ridiculous buffs then you would of made the time required to get gear from a minimum of 30 hours to a minimum of 18 days.

Do the math of which one would keep your player-base playing the game longer…

Server Side Auction Pricing for full Gear enhancements:

Guild Backpack – 5 gold
Amulet – 3 gold 50 silver
Accessories – 7 gold (for both)
Earrings – 7 gold (for both)

6 x Superior Runes for Gear – 12 gold total.
Exquisite Jewels for Accessories – 3 gold total

4 exotic Dyes (Black/Whites) – 14 gold
All Bank Slots – 14 gold
20 slot bags x 4 slots – 50 gold

Total Gold investment for end-game gear (Not including Legendaries):

116 gold

CoF by itself will only cover 24 gold of that. Not including repairs / items.

As well as not including maxing professions.

Do you think this really needed a Buff.

absoeffinlutely..

if they wanted to make the runs harder then they should have at least lessen the token required to purchase a piece of armor

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Destroyer NZ.7461

Destroyer NZ.7461

Crucifer i couldn’t agree more with you. Before the patch i was doing CoF runs and i was really enjoying it! now i hate it, we keep failing and it just feels like a waste of time when you have to restart because of a bug or something else.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Spawn.7014

Spawn.7014

Who ever came up with this CoF buff needs to be fired ASAP. who ever approved it.. also needs to be fired.

What is wrong with speed runs? if people want to spend 10hrs a day running one instance let them. what difference does it make in the long run?

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: fantommen.7128

fantommen.7128

The whole dungeon system has made all my friends go back to other games already. This was maybe the last nail in the coffin for my own part.

Anet have not kept their word about “anti-grind” that they praised for months before the release, and all the press around the world took it as good bait and hailed it. Now we see the true face of Anet and how the future will be like. Korean style grind fest if not worse, no end-game content what so ever, anti farming programs to make us grind even more for crafting mats, less gold reward from events after doing X-amount in a zone and the list goes on…

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Clith.9548

Clith.9548

So much mad in this thread. All because you can’t have an easy farm. It got harder (it was needed) and was made to take longer (which it needed)
You should never be able to complete a dungeon on explorable mode in 20 minutes, and I for one am ridiculously glad ANet have fixed this.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Azirel.8391

Azirel.8391

And there goes a thing. I was actually quite bored of game according to effort that gathering some better looking gear with statistics would take, till i found out CoF u see. And there’s a point – i found out CoF, which brought me some joy that could be put to a statement “Oh okay, i can have fun in short runs, gather gear that could use for farming higher zones/dungs”. Day after, when i was aiming to get a bit of gear myself CoF was nerfed to the ground, expanding time that farming this gear would take to around 100 hours or so just for this dung set. That cannot be fun with 5 basic skills and same path for all of those, while playing CoF before nerf, seemed rewarding, satisfying and was like “Yay, i’m beeing rewarded” which is pretty much biggest impulse to play MMO. At this point i just feel beeing a bit cheated, according to lack of notifications bout nerf, time of doing a thing much longer and not beeing rewarded in gold at all, also investing gold in runs since it’s chain of endless repairs by now.

Literally by nerfing CoF Anet took only way that players could prepare for other content, have fun and earn some money, also pretty much taking away any eagerness of myself to play GW2 anymore, since not beeing rewarded at “farm” of something is pretty much thing that does kill games.
As an example i can just put Diablo 3 here – they had loads of players quitting until they fixed awarding players system.

I’m quite happy MoP is coming out soon, since Anet with that one simple move broken good endgame-preparation for all new players, totally nerfing they’re adventages compairing to players who started to farm it bit earlier, and broke well prospering game with it.

edit:
I assume all “nerf is good” posts are from players who already got all the items of CoF tokens they needed either from players who never found how fun is it to actually be well rewarded for something in MMO? Ofc, if you’ve already spent some time in CoF and got the gear nerf seems like good idea for ya, since you got the gear others won’t be able to get within next few months, just as bugged skillsets in diablo 3 set up economics and made game playable only for players who farmed gear using broken skills before.

(edited by Azirel.8391)

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Gray.9650

Gray.9650

Total Gold investment for end-game gear (Not including Legendaries):

116 gold

CoF by itself will only cover 24 gold of that. Not including repairs / items.

As well as not including maxing professions.

Do you think this really needed a Buff.

seems not enough people we buying gems for cash.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Gray.9650

Gray.9650

and was made to take longer (which it needed)
You should never be able to complete a dungeon on explorable mode in 20 minutes, and I for one am ridiculously glad ANet have fixed this.

and that’s where you’re wrong. a dungeon can take 5 minutes if the reward is appropriate. which wasn’t the case here. buffing length, difficulty AND reducing rewards is overkill.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Daboris.6730

Daboris.6730

I haven’t really done dungeons yet so I can’t speak on difficulty or variety. They did state they’re working on bosses and what not, so that’s good.

I think the counter-intuitive ideas come with exploring. If they want us to mix up the dungeons and do all of them and not farm the same ones, they should just normalize the tokens. At that point it’s borderline Justice/Valor points akin to WoW, but the system can and does work. Instead of currency specific to each instance, you just introduce the idea of a universal currency. You can still keep stuff like Molten Lodestones and what not specific to CoF; however, the idea of making someone run a specific path (which will happen if Explorable A is easier than B and C) over and over doesn’t make much sense per the philosophy.

I’m fine with how it is because I haven’t hit the wall of wanting to grind for a specific set, but I’m used to grinding dungeons anyway.

I think the easiest fix is to just look at each path, determine which is hardest/done fastest, and adjust the reward accordingly. That way the reward scales. I think they should have enough parses for each path by now to do that, and can adjust it accordingly.

If instead of buffing the current “15 minute CoF” run they just made the rewards really really minimal, it would have been funnier IMO and I would have loved the backlash there. It would have become less of “Inform us of all changes and stop messing with our fun blah blah” and more of “How dare you..adjust it..to scale with the length of the dungeon…why would you fix this….errmmm…jerks!”

“Those dolls they were making underground… Did you think they look like me?”
-Vivi

(edited by Daboris.6730)

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Holyfrog.1956

Holyfrog.1956

just 1 thing to say here, someone mentioned it earlier in another way,
when i first heard of GW2 and later as well i allways thought they are telling me, that:
1. no mindless farming
2. hard dungeons
Well i was happy, WoW, RIft, Tera, SWOTR etcetc i played, yes…but the grind was always soo enormously boring, now i thought i finally found a game where it is not necessary.
I heard of cool loooking set items you get after finishing a hard dungeon, not having to farm 1000 of tokens doing the same dungeon over and over again…sadly this is no true, you get your 1 set item at the end of story mode and then you can go explo and farm tokens over and over again…
well i’m doing pvp now noone 1 know wants to farm this hours and hours (me included)
if it was 6 explo paths each dungeon and at the end of each you get 1 set item (being very hard naturally)
just one little PS: it is actually NOT hard to farm a dungeon several times in a row this has nothing to do with difficulty it’s just boring for most people =)

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Luukator.6038

Luukator.6038

I don’t want to do long dungeon runs, and with today’s fix I’m not likely to play much GW2 anymore. I really don’t feel doing any dungeons atm. I like Wvw, but there are insane queues on Desolation. sPvP is quite fun, but gets boring with just ‘cap and hold nodes’.
I was really really excited for GW2 but now I’m not feeling like playing it much anymore.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Kherberos.2169

Kherberos.2169

Two separate issues here :

1 ) You have to get too many tokens to get an item — this may be true but items are prestige, not required for advancement. I agree this is a pain but if we’ve all got our sweet loot in a couple days, what’s to keep us interested in the game.

2 ) As a result of 1), people chose to find the ideal path to getting what they want with the least pain / effort. This in itself is perfectly fine — however the attitude of entitlement of ‘weeks of notice’ for pve changes is absurd. I much prefer the quick reaction time of Arenanet when it comes to all changes, be they bugs, balance issues or content changes. When you compare that to competitors who take weeks or months to fix simple issues that end up killing people’s enthusiasm for the game I’ll definitely take a few broken eggs over no eggs at all.

The whole method of gaining dungeon gear needs to be reconsidered; in thinking about it, things would be a lot better if dungeon gear cost Karma — BUT there was a method of requiring your participation in a run — either a Unique item on dungeon completion that allows you purchase a single armour piece of choice with your karma, or putting the vendor inside the dungeon itself at the end. That way you require the accomplishment of completing the dungeon, but you don’t have to do it 1000x times to get enough ‘currency’ for the items — you can do that in other methods and do a single or a couple dungeon runs in order to buy what you need.

Separating the dungeons from the common economy in the first place is a bit odd now that I think about it.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Danki.8940

Danki.8940

For ANets sake I wanted to put this here as I have calculated this out:

For Full Flame Legion Gear Requirements:

~1,770 Tokens – Approx 90 runs of CoF. (Depending on Weapon)
26 silver per run – Approx 24 gold return from 90 runs. (Pre-selling items / repairs)

20 min per run x 90 Runs = 30 hours of in-game time spent inside CoF not including 6 min event intervals.

If you had included a 5 run lockout system instead of ridiculous buffs then you would of made the time required to get gear from a minimum of 30 hours to a minimum of 18 days.

Do the math of which one would keep your player-base playing the game longer…

Server Side Auction Pricing for full Gear enhancements:

Guild Backpack – 5 gold
Amulet – 3 gold 50 silver
Accessories – 7 gold (for both)
Earrings – 7 gold (for both)

6 x Superior Runes for Gear – 12 gold total.
Exquisite Jewels for Accessories – 3 gold total

4 exotic Dyes (Black/Whites) – 14 gold
All Bank Slots – 14 gold
20 slot bags x 4 slots – 50 gold

Total Gold investment for end-game gear (Not including Legendaries):

116 gold

CoF by itself will only cover 24 gold of that. Not including repairs / items.

As well as not including maxing professions.

Do you think this really needed a Buff.

the best post i’ve seen about that point.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Azrael.5134

Azrael.5134

This is an excellent post Crucifer. What i don’t get was it wasn’t broken why fix it? Players were happy no one was complaining. Imho they brought this upon themselves. I expected and hoped for better with anet. Hope they do something to fix this.

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: COBRA.6095

COBRA.6095

I agree to 100%

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: NudeDude.2645

NudeDude.2645

totaly agree

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Amit.6027

Amit.6027

I demand an ANET dev/rep read this..!!..this is the best post ive read in a while and agree 100% with this

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Melphina.9035

Melphina.9035

I completely disagree with everything stated here.

Run different paths and your rewards are restored. This patch is to prevent people from farming the same path over and over.

People are saying it doesnt work that way but i agree 100% with you. Anyone that was running CoF cant tell me with a straight face they thought that wasnt going to be changed.

Melphina Kobe ~ Thief

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Azirel.8391

Azirel.8391

I can tell you i wasn’t thinking like that beacouse it was fun to do so and still get rewards. How many times can you repeat a single thing ?

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Amit.6027

Amit.6027

Best post ive read in a while ANET needs to read this

The CoF Buff: My opinions

in Dungeons

Posted by: Daboris.6730

Daboris.6730

You’re basing a lot of your current experience off of past experience and expectations. That’s not how things work.

The main idea is: A dungeon is taking too little time relative to the rest to complete, so it’s the only one being done by a majority of players. Why would they put an explorable mode dungeon in that takes 15 minutes to complete when all others are nowhere near that, relatively? I didn’t do it, I haven’t done many despite being level 80.

I think the ‘outcry’ of the public against this is kind of dumb. While I agree the idea of “the grind” is implemented for their vanity, it’s just that; vanity. They could lower costs a bit, but by how much?

It’s the same logic with events. When you find an easy event that gives a relatively good/fast amount of exp/karma, you’re going to keep doing it and avoid other events.

I think a good solution to that is implementing a scaling/descaling system, as they partially did. Besides doing something like making the same dungeon worth less exp/karma/tokens, make dungeons other people don’t do and take longer worth more karma/exp/tokens the longer you personally don’t do it. It’s like if a mob is alive too long, it’s worth more experience. My suggestion is to apply that across events as well, giving incentive to do them, and then some kind of personal timer on dungeons you haven’t done, giving more incentive to do them relative to ones you may find “easier”.

The Satchel of Mysteries or whatever idea from WoW only made me want to wait for it to pop to queue for a chance at a rare pet or mount. But, a personal timer will vary, so it won’t be much of an issue. It would still make people want to wait however long to join it, but everyone would be on a separate timer, and it would be just long enough to make you say “Hey, I should do this dungeon for a chance at more exp/karma/coins/maybeaspecialminipetorsomething!”

TL;DR – Just like mobs, have events that haven’t been done in awhile offer more reward/possibility at special rewards (mini-pets?) if up long enough. Similarily, add personal timers on dungeons not done so their rewards increase the longer you haven’t done one, then resets (timer applicable to all dungeons not done, and resets when dungeon completed).

“Those dolls they were making underground… Did you think they look like me?”
-Vivi

(edited by Daboris.6730)