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Posted by: lokyst.7213

lokyst.7213

What irks me most is the proposed time frame to fix this issue. All the while it’s the players that suffer.

Imagine that instead of coding in DR to catch potential exploits, they had instead just coded an alarm that went off in their offices that indicated that there was a potential exploit that needed to be investigated. The number of false alarms would have had them tweaking the dials in hours, not weeks. Instead they can take their sweet time about it because they aren’t the ones being inconvenienced.

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Posted by: Lysidian.4653

Lysidian.4653

… The option that does nothing constructive, however, is to keep shouting the same arguments. A dialogue is a two-way exchange of information. Arenanet has said they heard you, and are working on it. Continuing to yell as though they said nothing will not make the fixes come any faster. You’re just making more work for the mods who spend their days closing botting and DR rant threads.

Listen. Wait. Do something else if you must. But continuing to rant about this accomplishes nothing.

16 years of experience with previous MMO’s and previous MMO developers disagrees with you, tolunart. Specifically, those that rant the loudest and most often, -always- get their way.

With no monthly fees required to play, Arenanet sets themselves apart as a different kind of company with a different kind of game. I sincerly hope that you are wrong.

Say, for example, that 25% of the game population stops playing in protest. A month later, they announce they have fixed the DR problem and the majority of those players come back. What have they lost? They did not lose a single subscription payment.

Even players who refuse to return nevereverever may come back after their butts stop hurting, when new content is released or when they get bored enough to dust off the disk and reinstall.

Its like the thing with a bad resturant….. if 1 person has a bad experience with a resturant, they will go off and tell 10 people its bad. Word of mouth, can really have a large impact. How many players have been kitten off over DR? Even if it was only 10,000, that could imply that 100,000 people got told this game blows due to DR.

Fixing the issue might get some of those people to come back……but then again how many wont? I think most of the issue after the red post is that the DR shouldnt have been put in to start with. It shouldnt take weeks to fix. Its really shady to say this was put in to help deal with bots. We only got one response in 3 weeks. No updates, no nothing. Hell it took 2 weeks of kittening just to get acknowledged. After getting burned, its really hard to trust ANET. Its also very frustrating that they seem to be taking their time with it, like its no big deal.

Because GW2 doesnt have a subscription doesnt make ANET immune from delivering a quality product and trying to provide for their player base. They might have less incentive to do so, but thats a double edged sword. Players will have less incentive to keep playing and to make future purchases.

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Posted by: tolunart.2095

tolunart.2095

I dont think people should have the right to tell other people how to play. I dont think people should have the right to tell people that if they dont like it they can leave. I dont think people should jump to ANET’s defense on every little issue, even more so when ANET is clearly in the wrong. I especially dont think people should tell other people that they dont have a right to dissent.

I’m not telling you to leave, I’m telling you that, with no monthly fee to worry about, you can go away and come back without actually losing anything. I cannot make the decision for you, but calling Arenanet employees liars and continuing to make demands as though they never said anything will not get results.

Hey, if spitting into the wind is your thing, go ahead.

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Posted by: Twigy.1527

Twigy.1527

Well I for one love this game it’s freaking awesome…. I told all my friends “dude you need to come play this game it’s the best thing ever”

Then they added the DR mechanic now I tell my friends “I’m not playing anymore till they fix the broken mechanic” which makes them less likely to ever play.

The other affect ANET will get is, well the less people that are playing means the less money they make from people buying gems from there store, subscription based mechanics are not always the best way to make money off these games. If you can get anything you want in a game now instead of later, and all you need to do is spend a little bit of money to get it, heck why not I don’t need to pay for a subscription to play so I can spend a few dollars to get more gold or bag/bank space.

The point is the less people are playing lowers the potential for the company to make more money.

On another note if they are counting on making money off there sales when they release the next expansion, what will make me want to buy that expansion if I’m just going to run into DR again? Sorry I wont waste my time or money on the next expansion either.

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Posted by: tolunart.2095

tolunart.2095

Its like the thing with a bad resturant….. if 1 person has a bad experience with a resturant, they will go off and tell 10 people its bad. Word of mouth, can really have a large impact. How many players have been kitten off over DR? Even if it was only 10,000, that could imply that 100,000 people got told this game blows due to DR.
.

If 10,000 people were posting rants, you might have a point. But it’s the same 10 people saying the same rants over and over and acting like it’s the end of the (game) world.

I think people may have an artificially inflated sense of their own importance. For a counterexample, see the “is the game worth the $60?” thread and look at how many people are enjoying it vs. how many people quit due to DR.

Update: happy now?

(edited by tolunart.2095)

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Posted by: JonPeters

Previous

JonPeters

Game Design Lead

An update! By popular demand and because it was a simple numbers change we lowered the net on any systems we felt were too harsh. These are not the last number changes, but this should help a lot an you can expect to see this change in the very next live build which should be in the next few days. We are not currently adding any new systems now or in the foreseeable future. There was an update a little while back that limited oricalcum farming via server and overflow swapping. This update was too harsh on normal players and we will try to increase the supply of these resources again soon. This requires some more number crunching and testing than the other change we made so it might take a bit longer.

Thanks,

Jon

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Posted by: Lysidian.4653

Lysidian.4653

Thanks Jon,

could you by chance be more specific on what systems are being changed? You were a bit vague, we talking about dynamic events? farming mobs? wvw?

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Posted by: Manifoldgodhead.2356

Manifoldgodhead.2356

An update! By popular demand and because it was a simple numbers change we lowered the net on any systems we felt were too harsh. These are not the last number changes, but this should help a lot an you can expect to see this change in the very next live build which should be in the next few days. We are not currently adding any new systems now or in the foreseeable future. There was an update a little while back that limited oricalcum farming via server and overflow swapping. This update was too harsh on normal players and we will try to increase the supply of these resources again soon. This requires some more number crunching and testing than the other change we made so it might take a bit longer.

Thanks,

Jon

Thank god, can the QQ about this stop now? Will people on Anvil Rock please help me take Temple of Grenth now?

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Posted by: SHM.7628

SHM.7628

… The option that does nothing constructive, however, is to keep shouting the same arguments. A dialogue is a two-way exchange of information. Arenanet has said they heard you, and are working on it. Continuing to yell as though they said nothing will not make the fixes come any faster. You’re just making more work for the mods who spend their days closing botting and DR rant threads.

Listen. Wait. Do something else if you must. But continuing to rant about this accomplishes nothing.

16 years of experience with previous MMO’s and previous MMO developers disagrees with you, tolunart. Specifically, those that rant the loudest and most often, -always- get their way.

With no monthly fees required to play, Arenanet sets themselves apart as a different kind of company with a different kind of game. I sincerly hope that you are wrong.

Say, for example, that 25% of the game population stops playing in protest. A month later, they announce they have fixed the DR problem and the majority of those players come back. What have they lost? They did not lose a single subscription payment.

Even players who refuse to return nevereverever may come back after their butts stop hurting, when new content is released or when they get bored enough to dust off the disk and reinstall.

Its like the thing with a bad resturant….. if 1 person has a bad experience with a resturant, they will go off and tell 10 people its bad. Word of mouth, can really have a large impact. How many players have been kitten off over DR? Even if it was only 10,000, that could imply that 100,000 people got told this game blows due to DR.

Fixing the issue might get some of those people to come back……but then again how many wont? I think most of the issue after the red post is that the DR shouldnt have been put in to start with. It shouldnt take weeks to fix. Its really shady to say this was put in to help deal with bots. We only got one response in 3 weeks. No updates, no nothing. Hell it took 2 weeks of kittening just to get acknowledged. After getting burned, its really hard to trust ANET. Its also very frustrating that they seem to be taking their time with it, like its no big deal.

Because GW2 doesnt have a subscription doesnt make ANET immune from delivering a quality product and trying to provide for their player base. They might have less incentive to do so, but thats a double edged sword. Players will have less incentive to keep playing and to make future purchases.

You are 100% correct.

They do have something to lose. Something irreplacable = their name and rep.

Word of mouth means everything. Look at Diablo 3. I played 1 and 2. I would have bought 3 just beacuse I played and liked the first 2. Word of mouth killed it for the. Once a few people started telling me the same thing, it was a no brainer.

There is of course something else on the line, expansions if they happen and the cash shop.

PS- I don’t like calling people fanboys or trolls. Suffice it to say, I did warned you about wasting your breath on Tolunart.

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Posted by: dalendria.3762

dalendria.3762

Thanks Jon and the rest of the Arenanet team for listening and taking action.

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Posted by: Castiel.2485

Castiel.2485

I was on henge of denravi and never really seen overflow in 80 zones. maybe its time to stop free transfers. so why is it some people can mine all nodes without any issues. I have 2 80’s and hit all orichalcum nodes about 3 times a day on hod and did no transfers or overflow. I personally see nothing wrong with that

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Posted by: Futuro.8036

Futuro.8036

Good work …. But will there be more Information and specifics on what is being changed or will that be in the patch notes ?

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Posted by: bowsaway.3928

bowsaway.3928

The whole system can be fixed rather simply.

Botters use programs. These programs have a pattern. A system could be put in place to watch patterns. Bots can be more optimized to follow different patterns, but they will ALWAYS create a traceable pattern.

You know how easy it would be to code in a couple lines that every so often it breaks up the pattern by doing something random, or has a scripted conversation on map chat, or any number of other things would break any noticeable “pattern”?

A human will not just stand there and wait for spawns, a human will never return to the exact same coordinates to check for X (close but never exact), a human farmer will move to the next place quickly after a kill.

Seen people wait for spawns. Specially in Orr where veterans respawn constantly, because some people think vets give better loot.

People will, sometimes through sheer luck, keep lannding on the same coordinates.

The problem here is that people can, without meaning to, emulate a pattern. Let’s say you build your bot detecto-script. As soon as Johnny Justplayingthegame moves just right (or wrong, depending on how you look at it), BAM! He gets banned. And comes (rightly so) to the boards to kitten.

Why can’t a system put in place that monitors movements? It would not be hard. The other day I was in a place and a Ranger was just firing arrows at nothing, went back 3 hours later same person doing the same thing (reported). That is how bots work. They stand and wait or move in exact patterns.

The lazy ones do. If Anet bans them, writers will just script smarter bots. On the other hand. I was bored waiting for a friend to come back from Afk the other day, and kept dropping an aoe field in the same place every time it was off cooldown for a while. I’m pretty sure I’m not a bot. Will your program know the difference?

Your idea is admirable. It’s just that

A) it won’t fix anything in the long run as botters will just modify their scripts to get around the security (this btw is why Anet won’t divulge the exact numbers behind DR, so that botters/exploiters kitten near anyone else at this point won’t just find ways to get around them.)

B) It will punish legitimate players without meaning to the moment they jsut do something wrong.

I’m not saying DR is the right choice either. But your idea won’t work well enough to be worth it.

Still easy to fix. Suspected bot (May be player), pops up a message are you human? You have 5 seconds to click “yes”. Then after you click “yes” it pops back up and says “If you are a human player please move with the left arrow”, so you move. Then if the system is still not sure you are a human it says “We have spawned a free teleport, three steps to your left. Please take this free port to Lions Arch and pm: Blah Blah when you arrive and you will be freely teleported back to your original spot”.

This would be good. The human actual player loses nothing. The bot would be screwed by the second question more then likely.

(edited by bowsaway.3928)

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Posted by: Castiel.2485

Castiel.2485

treating normal gathering nodes like they were rich nodes on a 24hr timer is just crazy

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Posted by: Stardrinker.9402

Stardrinker.9402

While I appreciate that you’re being more vocal about the DR issues and are willing to make changes, I feel that the DR system is the wrong type of system to be using since it will always affect players before (if ever) it will affect bots.

The advantage that bots have over players is they are able to perform simple tasks over a long period of time, much longer than any human can stay awake for or have the patience for.

The advantage players have over bots is that they are able to do complex tasks and do it faster and more efficiently, but they have limits like having to sleep, eat, boredom.

The DR system is basically having the opposite effect of what you’re aiming for.

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Posted by: SHM.7628

SHM.7628

People are bringing up various ways to to deal with bots, exploiters, goldsellers. It’s not really all that complex. If the account gets reported 10 to 20 times in a short period, they need to check the activity. do their due dilligence and then ban them.

I’ve been getting between 2 and 10 gold seller emails a day. Put in a report button. When people report them = ban them. I don’t know why they are doing mental gymnastics on this. Its a fairly simple and straightforward process.

Before anyone says they have no idea what you are doing on your account, oh really? Remember those people who crafted and sold to the merchant for profit and they banned them? they can do it.

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Posted by: tolunart.2095

tolunart.2095

“If the account gets reported 10 to 20 times in a short period, they need to check the activity. "

In a game with guilds of like-minded miscreants, it’s very easy to get a group of people to spend 2 minutes spamming reports about innocent players. They get a good laugh out of it, the staff responsible for checking the reports wastes the next several hours, and sometimes innocent players get banned because they do something that seems suspicious but is later revealed to be a mistake.

I suppose they don’t teach kids about the McCarthy Era or how easy it is to get innocent people into a lot of trouble.

(edited by tolunart.2095)

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Posted by: Stratzvyda.3921

Stratzvyda.3921

I can’t really give you the benefit of the doubt on this, but hopefully you changed the loot DR and not just the easily screenshottable karma DR.

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Posted by: tolunart.2095

tolunart.2095

JonPeters: “you can expect to see this change in the very next live build which should be in the next few days.”

It didn’t happen yet, Stratz.

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Posted by: SHM.7628

SHM.7628

“If the account gets reported 10 to 20 times in a short period, they need to check the activity. "

In a game with guilds of like-minded miscreants, it’s very easy to get a group of people to spend 2 minutes spamming reports about innocent players. They get a good laugh out of it, the staff responsible for checking the reports wastes the next several hours, and sometimes innocent players get banned because they do something that seems suspicious but is later revealed to be a mistake.

I suppose they don’t teach kids about the McCarthy Era or how easy it is to get innocent people into a lot of trouble.

@tolunart,
stop trolling. I said If the account gets reported 10 to 20 times in a short period, they need to check the activity. do their due dilligence and then ban them. what part of that did you not understand?

The report function is there already. So now you are suggesting it be removed? I have yet to see you add anything valid to the discussion. If someone says Black you respond white". Do you just enjoy trying to get a rise out of people?

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Posted by: tolunart.2095

tolunart.2095

Sigh, this lack of comprehension isn’t even amusing, kid.

“Hey, so-and-so killed me in PvP, guildies, let’s all report him for botting!”

(a dozen guildies): Sure, bro.

GM spends the next hour investigating innocent player for botting.

Guildies: LOL

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Posted by: tolunart.2095

tolunart.2095

Hey, if a dozen people say it’s a bot, then that means it’s a bot, right?

That’s the biggest reason why the staff behind these games tend to go easy on the banhammer – griefing exists, and it’s very easy to make it seem like people are doing something wrong when groupthink sets in and people go along with the leader because it’s easier than thinking for yourself.

At the very least, you waste a lot of time and resources chasing down false leads. At worst, innocent people lose their accounts and the companies lose paying customers.

(edited by tolunart.2095)

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Posted by: TRON.1085

TRON.1085

An update! By popular demand and because it was a simple numbers change we lowered the net on any systems we felt were too harsh. These are not the last number changes, but this should help a lot an you can expect to see this change in the very next live build which should be in the next few days. We are not currently adding any new systems now or in the foreseeable future. There was an update a little while back that limited oricalcum farming via server and overflow swapping. This update was too harsh on normal players and we will try to increase the supply of these resources again soon. This requires some more number crunching and testing than the other change we made so it might take a bit longer.

Thanks,

Jon

Sorry but it was still a stealth nerf and your still planning on nerfing ori ore? Why do you guys keep nerfing gold income but dont take back the gold exploited due to bugs and other things which is harming the economy more than ori ore is….

That nerf / change should of been in the patch notes. What other things have been changed that were not in the notes?

Also take away 24 hour server transfers, make it permenant or it costs money / gems to change servers. Problem solved.

Please stop putting in game mechanics that instead of stopping exploiters / botters / gold sellers is actually damaging the game and hurting the normal player base.

Thanks.

(edited by TRON.1085)

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Posted by: Stratzvyda.3921

Stratzvyda.3921

Hey, if a dozen people say it’s a bot, then that means it’s a bot, right?

That’s the biggest reason why the staff behind these games tend to go easy on the banhammer – griefing exists, and it’s very easy to make it seem like people are doing something wrong when groupthink sets in and people go along with the leader because it’s easier than thinking for yourself.

At the very least, you waste a lot of time and resources chasing down false leads. At worst, innocent people lose their accounts and the companies lose paying customers.

They had no problem going crazy with the ban hammer the first couple of days for names etc. so it’s clear that they don’t care about banning paying customers. Even if they did minimal investigation just pop an observer on highly reported players and move down the list, they’re doing the same circles day after day it’s not rocket science if there’s the slightest doubt just move on for now.. While more advanced bots do exist, there are swarms of insanely moronic bots in every zone. Just getting rid of those would do wonders. Banning these wouldn’t give away your detection methods and as such there isn’t a reason to ban them in waves.

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Posted by: tolunart.2095

tolunart.2095

Ah, I was thinking of the cheap karma weapons thing… didn’t they just ban everyone then back off and restore the accounts of the people who bought less than like 10,000 weapons?

Anyway, they are doing something about the bots. You just won’t see the results because most of it is happening behind the scenes. I’m an old feller, and when you get old you realize that everything doesn’t happen when you want it to happen.

Ok, done with this subject… well, done with the forums in general.

(edited by tolunart.2095)

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Posted by: sanadin.8317

sanadin.8317

An update! By popular demand and because it was a simple numbers change we lowered the net on any systems we felt were too harsh. These are not the last number changes, but this should help a lot an you can expect to see this change in the very next live build which should be in the next few days. We are not currently adding any new systems now or in the foreseeable future. There was an update a little while back that limited oricalcum farming via server and overflow swapping. This update was too harsh on normal players and we will try to increase the supply of these resources again soon. This requires some more number crunching and testing than the other change we made so it might take a bit longer.

Thanks,

Jon

Awesome. My gratitude to you and the team.

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Posted by: Ravnodaus.5130

Ravnodaus.5130

Thanks for the reply Jon. We can only hope that the adjustments you will be making resolve your customer’s complaints. More specifics would be nifty keen…but, starting to expect a shortage on those. Who knows? Maybe you don’t have those details nailed down yet. /shrug

On a totally irrelevant (sorta) side note. I kinda miss just mind control/fearing bots into terrain they get stuck in, and /lol ing at them… they’d get stuck for hours until someone came to manually fix it.

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Posted by: Don Zardeone.8730

Don Zardeone.8730

I love you Jon

<3

This post has been edited to remove a violation of the forum code of conduct.

(edited by Moderator)

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Posted by: raito.4085

raito.4085

I hope DR will be increase soon , because i feel bad that i wast a lot of time and gold to make a full set of magic find it’s like playing with 0% MF while my gear give 204% MF -.-’ .
FIX it Anet !

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Posted by: Nighthawk.6453

Nighthawk.6453

I hope DR will be increase soon , because i feel bad that i wast a lot of time and gold to make a full set of magic find it’s like playing with 0% MF while my gear give 204% MF -.-’ .
FIX it Anet !

Same here… And what is much more frustrating, I’ve bought a Magic Find Booster and it works only for about 15 minutes even though it has a duration of an hour – because of the DR. Today was farming armored scales for a half of an hour, got 13 in total, 7 of them in first 7 minutes and in the last 10 minutes – only 2 (sic!).

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Posted by: Lothu.9830

Lothu.9830

Jon, I appreciate you taking the time to respond to us multiple times in this thread and keeping us up to speed with what is in the works on the DR issue. I really love what you guys have done with this game and can’t remember having a better experience with any other MMO during the first two weeks until DR was introduced on this scale.

I have spent over $200 in the cash shop since launch but will be boycotting any future purchases until DR is completely removed from the game….not tweaked or adjusted. I’m sure that the purchases made from my account can be easily verified and that it can be determined quite easily that I am not botting but simply playing the game. This system in my opinion is not designed to combat botting but to reduce the ability of players to generate in game currency and be forced to turn to the cash shop to buy gold. This is simply my opinion after having observed the DR system in action.

The DR system is an insult to players and has really put a bad taste in my mouth for this game and your company. Again I do appreciate the communication and the work that your team has done to bring us a great game…please don’t allow DR to ruin this experience for everyone.

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Posted by: queen of recovery.2378

queen of recovery.2378

i dont understand why there is dr on karma, karma cant hurt the economy cause all items bought with karma is account or soulbound.
i completly understand why there is dr on loot and dungeons (maybe not dungeon tokens cause those or account bound aswell).
but on karma is just strange, i hit dr in 30 minutes, i cant even use my karma booster to its full potential (and they arnt cheap) unless i log out and come back in what 40 minutes or so?

i am dissapointed that they did this.

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Posted by: SHM.7628

SHM.7628

I think not moving to totally remove DR was a mistake on the dev’s part. However, I’m willing to at least look at the game with the new changes to DR. I am by no means hardcore. If I am hit with it at all, I’ll know there’s still a problem and the game is broken.

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Posted by: Mara.2314

Mara.2314

Jon, Please consider a full discussion or explanation of when and how DR starts to impact farming when you do the next patch. As mentioned several times in this post. There are many different play styles and definitions of farming in the community. You have a wide range of legitimate players/customers with no intention to botting trying to determine if the random number generator is being cruel to them or has some new DR coded impacted their drops. And now…a new element..bugged DR code. Paranoia is a very strong human emotion you don’t want that factoring into a persons decision to play the game. Once gone…getting players back it tough.

Personally I hate random number generators and loved the fact you have magic find in this game. Was super excited about it as a mechanic. Really gave a MMO player hope that they could combat all those awful experiences from the past where they had to hope for drops based on RAN. But the DR mechanic kind of opposes Magic Find for players. One seems to be canceling out the other….doesn’t make sense, especially if you plan to sell magic find boosters for gems. Or is the DR mechanic not functioning the way we think it is? Another reason to explain what is happening and how. It will improve your sales.

Finally, I think I get the idea that DR is suppose to cut the botters off from a source of their income…before they can turn it into gold. Typically, I think of the Botter as the toon sitting in one spot or in one general area…Aoeing, and picking up loot from its kills. And doing this for hours on end. Normally it is a cyclical process that never deviates. I think everyone agrees…we want these botters gone from the game. But, as pointed out…this is not a very efficient short term approach….great long term..terrible short term. A smart person behind the keyboard can do much better. But unfortunately, it appears that the DR implementation you have in place, penalizes the efficient person behind the keyboard before it ever gets to the botters. If it not suppose to work that way. Tells us how to avoid it please. What guidelines are there? and how does ore mining play in DR? Isn’t harvesting self regulating and impossible to bot (or at least not cost effective)? Why is Ori in the DR discussion?

So many questions and grey areas…help fight off the conspiracy theory folks please =)

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Posted by: Athanasius.3875

Athanasius.3875

“There was an update a little while back that limited oricalcum farming via server and overflow swapping.”

I’ve never seen overflow on Gunnar’s Hold for Malchor’s Leap or Cursed Shore, yet I’ve been seeing problems with the Orichalcum respawns there. Nor did I server-hop at all. Was this possibly incorrectly triggering through either Lion’s Arch Overflow (i.e. code only checks if you’ve been in any overflow recently), or my going through Chantry of Secrets to get to Straits of Devastation ?

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Posted by: dirtyklingon.2918

dirtyklingon.2918

anet talks big about respect for one another in the community, sometimes spamming fb with posts about it 3-4x within a single 24 hour period.

and yet, anet refuses to have the simply respect for it’s entire customer base by being upfront about changes and posting a proper and complete change log, as well as obfuscating so many things.

ncsoft has a long history of hurting legit players mainly in the quest to hurt botters. but these systems never affect botters in the slightest. anet and gw2 is no different. it’s the quintessential stereotypical ncsoft game when it comes to a lack of respect for legit customers/players.

cut out the coy vagueness, have the respect for us, the people keeping the money coming in, and be upfront and open with us.

this will not be so much a favour to us, as it will be a favour to yourselves to start to undo the damage this policy of obfuscation has done.

wether it’s the anti farming code, the undocumented changes in patches, or the gem store currency being tuned to make it less than clear the value of items and gold for real life money, it’s like we’re in a toxic relation ship where the person we’re dating continually tries to hide trivial things from us for no reason at all.

who doesn’t love wow clones?

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Posted by: Havana.8625

Havana.8625

Sounds like the change ONLY applies to Ori node respawn. That means nothing will change with the Karma DR and nothing with the drops from killing lots of mobs.

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Posted by: Twigy.1527

Twigy.1527

I don’t think the DR is meant to save the economy it’s meant to discourage BOT’s, but in reality all it does is discourage players.

A BOT can be changed, hmmm they added in Diminishing Returns after I farm karma for about 30mins I start getting less loot and karma, and oh look after logging off for an hour the diminishing returns are reset. So lets put a timer in the BOT lets make it log of for an hour every 30mins, and well just keep letting this cycle run for 24hrs and still make a killing on karma and gold.

On the other hand a player cant change, “ooo hmmm I start getting less Karma and loot after 30mins????” what the hell (Rage) log off for 15mins, log back in what the hell still not reset (rage more) come back in an hour “oh finally reset” (farm for another 30mins) “garh again” (more raging) (go to bed for 7 hrs) (wake up go to work for 10hrs) "ok lets try this again, (farm for 30mins) “RAWR again????” (rage somemore and Quite Game.)

See the difference? DR is not a BOT deterrent it’s a player deterrent, I spend more time at work and sleeping then I get time to play the game, not to mention time I want to spend with my wife/friends, or do chores and errands that need to get done, playing games for me is not a career its entertainment to fill my boredom when I have nothing better to do, if I must schedule my game time around DR it takes away from the entertainment of the game, and oh wait now in order to be efficient with the game I need to set up a BOT to automatically log in and out at the right times? But why play the game if you need to use a BOT to play it? Easy to make money. I don’t play games for a profit so I will just play a different game.

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Posted by: Ossus.9231

Ossus.9231

Thanks Jon. Any word on when you plan to to roll out a fix for the bug effecting DR on risen drops that some of us are experiencing.

These porous bones just aren’t cutting it.

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Posted by: Sovngarde.2740

Sovngarde.2740

1. Please Fix this asap… Turn off what you turned on its that simple.
(until you decide the fix; not while we suffer or sit contemplating if its time to give up…)
This is not some lil speed bump to game play it’s a flat out road block.
At the least give us the ability to reset (log out) Karma DR again.
I think drops are just as important in needing attention though.
(This has become very FFXIV or D3 -esk of being forced to play a specific way.) It will lead to the same result…
Its well hidden until you approach 80s. So as more and more of the population catches up it will only get worse in the QQ n Rage departments.

2. Your communication (and momentum of such) has noticeably dropped.
This is the number one way to keep your player base in good spirits…
You made a strong start in this area and have now slowly faded. More timely, clear and less obscure statements would be a good start. Even if just on the update page yall started. (which is hardly updated now by you…)

To leave off…Like many are saying with the way u set up Karma how can farmers be exploiting it. People find ways of dealing/accepting the items drops (or lack of). (I sure the heck don’t; its almost a game killer for me personally. Because I enjoy farming.) It seems rather that its because you try to find ways to extend the game…

Either way you didn’t at first, just like the dungeons exploiters you punished the player base. (even if that is temp) your hinting at this not being temp, just not balanced yet. (And for all we know you meant 1 certain area, event, or etc. Not across the board. You had players getting 100k plus honor a day (even more…) so now we all get thrown a slap in the face again.

I lol’d when I hit a rich vein and got 1 ore. Some were saying even hitting normal…
Its just bad structure.

I and im sure thousands of players do not appreciate being forced into playing a certain way or with such strict limits being enforced. Don’t balance it, scrap it. Or come up with a cap or something… Not a flat out hey I did one or 2 events now I don’t get any drops and less karma then a lvl 1.

Sry I’m bad at keeping it simply and short…

As someone above said, This is bad Karma!" lol.

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Posted by: Sovngarde.2740

Sovngarde.2740

Lol, I said Honor… *Sigh
I haven’t even played wow in 3 years…
See what this problem has done to me Anet!

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Posted by: Sovngarde.2740

Sovngarde.2740

…The offical post going around on sites is lol…It focuses on Karma more then drops/ nodes when ref the botters. How can the farmers ruin the money via Karma? Its all useless outside own toon. I find it all lol when ref the economy anyway. Pretty hard to abuse this economy… Just seems like they are doing to much and killing the fun and limiting, directing game play now.
To add I agree, should be rebalanced across the board not caps. I hate that to after seeing what was there; but better then cap.
Main reason for my issue is this is account wide…I play 2 toons so can hit even faster…
Limiting in many other ways. (Esp since logging out no longer resets karma Dr.)
They say a few bounced into it? Yet tons of players are hitting it…. *lies

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Posted by: haya.3506

haya.3506

Thank you for your prompt response Jonpeters.

I seriously hope you have taken what I suggested into consideration if you really want to combat botters, or help your company make a lot more money, or make the player base happy.

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Posted by: Kain Francois.4328

Kain Francois.4328

As a farmer trying to grind a goal of 80g for The Hunter of Rage, I spent lots of time in Straits of Devastation.

I get yellow/rares for the first event but then my loot starts becoming close to non-existent.

I am not farming the same event over and over again, but actually moving around, doing an array of events (Such as the “Plinx” chain)

Please fix the loot scaling, ANET. The endgame IS farming for our desired weapon skins, and it’s not fair for us to get punished when you try to crack down on bots.

Thank you!

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Posted by: Dinks.2478

Dinks.2478

Sounds like the change ONLY applies to Ori node respawn. That means nothing will change with the Karma DR and nothing with the drops from killing lots of mobs.

Not how I read it at all. If anything they said the only thing it isnt going to effect right now is ori nodes.

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Posted by: ChaosKirin.1328

ChaosKirin.1328

I really think that ANet is catering to what people want and is working on a nerf of their own Diminishing Returns systems. I don’t think they would post so candidly in this thread if they weren’t intending on bringing drops back up and making people happier.

I am trying to look at this logically and stay optimistic about the game, while in the meantime finding other things I like about it to play while I wait. I don’t feel as if anyone here has an ‘entitlement’ complex, but I do believe that many people have been spoiled by games over the years where you could essentially ‘talk with your wallet’ and stop paying subscription fees.

This is not one of those games. I am not a hard-core gamer, my highest character is at level 60, ankittenep inviting my fellow casual gamers to play, and they like it. Because people walking away from the game in no way hurts their profits, there’s no reason to change if they don’t want to, and yet, they are.

To back up my claim that there’s no necessity for them to change, let’s look at games on Facebook, like Farmville or Dragon City. These are games where your progression actually stops until you pay. And while most people won’t play the Pay-to-Win game, there are a select group of people with a lot of dispensable income (And who are also bored) that continue to throw money into those games into infinity. I know one person who plays Dragon City who immediately spent a couple hundred dollars on the game before she even really started playing it, because she didn’t want to be limited by the mechanics as she played.

There are people out there who have already thrown hundreds of dollars into Guild Wars 2. While I haven’t done that, I HAVE spent $30 on the game just this month, which essentially means, if this game had a subscription, that I’ve covered someone’s subscription fee. The only thing walking away from the game is going to do is deny you any enjoyment you may get out of it.

I am unhappy with the current state of DR. I had hundreds of Risen to fight for a story quest that cut my drops to nothing. And last night in the Dragon Brand, I had the same problem. However, I will reserve judgement as to whether or not ANet will fix the problem until after they implement their fixes. If, in several months, the problems are not fixed, instead of raging, I will probably just naturally get bored with the game and walk away from it.

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Posted by: SHM.7628

SHM.7628

I never realized how hard Dr hits (per kill) XP until today. I solo killed two different level 50 monsters on the same map. The One I hadn’t killed before gave 400% more XP. I watched it on the Combat chat. That hurts, i never thought of checking that before.

All I can say is…………. OUCH!

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Posted by: ChaosKirin.1328

ChaosKirin.1328

DR does not effect XP you get from killing mobs. You get more XP for a mob you kill that has been in the world longer.

Please don’t use fear tactics.

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Posted by: ChaosKirin.1328

ChaosKirin.1328

My edit link has vanished, so.

*affect.

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Posted by: Cuchullain.3104

Cuchullain.3104

Great. So right on the backs of the DR fiasco and all the anger that caused, they nerf the hell out of mithral and ori nodes by putting them on a 24 hour timer. This is world class cluelessness, but thanks for the confirmation that DR was never about bots, but limiting players’ ability to gather resources. What’s the excuse for the massive nerf this time, bots? They seem to be trying to out-Bioware Bioware in destroying their reputation and credibility. I’ve never seen any other game out there with as many bots as this one, are they really that hard to get rid of? You have to wonder if they tolerate them to have an excuse for the anti-player initiatives they keep adding to the game.

Once again they make it harder to grind for gear because grinding for gear is pretty much the endgame in this game.

As for Mr Peter’s comments, this is classic Blizzspeak. The vague, non-commital “we will look at the numbers over the next few weeks” crap was always Blizzard’s way of dodging problems and refusing to fix them promptly. They also played the game of always overnerfing things that didn’t need to be nerfed then tweaking them upwards afterwards to where they wanted it in the first place “in response to the community” as if input from the community had anything to do with it.

So they overnerf DR and then adjust the DR upward to a level they are comfortable with so all the fanbois can say “See! they listened!” In reality, if they were listening, this anti-player crap wouldn’t be in the game at all because people complained about it in GW1 and have asked for it to be removed here.

I mentioned Bioware above, but it is a fine example of how a company with a stellar reputation can find that reputation flung down into the gutter through mistreating and lying to its customers.