Please help us understand your philosophy on grind

Please help us understand your philosophy on grind

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Posted by: Elydian.1763

Elydian.1763

The latest patch notes have left a lot of people further confused about how you want us to play the game. The vast majority of endgame desirables, as well as much of endgame crafting requires what most people would describe as a large amount of grind.

Some people are fine with grind, some are not. I won’t express an opinion either way. What I’m concerned by is the seemingly confused and conflicted philosophy that you appear to have on it. You set up endgame as a grind, yet you continue to expand upon measures to stop grinding. Right now, as a player, I’m not really sure what to do anymore, as all the things I’d like to work towards in the game require grind, yet you seem insistent upon stopping me doing so.

I understand that the change to dungeons is to encourage people to play a larger variety. I also understand that the mob-type loot-lock is to discourage botters. However, these measures infringe upon our gameplay too much, and are counter to what the endgame requires.

Can you help me and other players understand how you want us to play the game? Because right now, I’m not sure.

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Posted by: Jaric.8934

Jaric.8934

I think what they not want you to do is getting these things done within 2 days of your so called ‘grind’. Think about it!

Sure you want your special dungeon skins, sure you want your legendaries.
Would it make sense from A-Nets PoV to make it possible to achieve it all in a week?
The longer you play, the better for the company.

And from my PoV: Do what you enjoy, not what you feel like you must do. You get bored of one part then enjoy another. PvE, WvW, sPvP.
There is a lot to do, dont limit yourself!

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Posted by: Deith.7596

Deith.7596

It’s very simple. Level up as slow as possible, farm gear-skin twice as long as earlier and wait for more content because the game is just 2 weeks into release.

There is a lot to do, dont limit yourself!

I love this sentence in terms of this game cause I’ve seen almost everything and you sound like it’s a big amount of things, and it’s not.

None of good stories starts with “I was drinking my milk when suddenly…”

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Posted by: Elydian.1763

Elydian.1763

“I think what they not want you to do is getting these things done within 2 days of your so called ‘grind’. Think about it!”

Putting invisible internal cooldowns on loot is a horrible way to implement these kinds of limits. WoW did it with dailies and that was also a horrible way of implementing the same thing. What it essentially does is make players feel pressured to log in on a daily basis, when real life makes this incredibly difficult to do. Allowing players to grind on their own schedule alleviates this.

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Posted by: Zenyatoo.4059

Zenyatoo.4059

As far as I can tell, guild wars 2 is an MMO trying as hard as it can be to not be an MMO.

Which is really quite sad, because they’re squashing out any potential enjoyment to be had.

Lets run down the list of things im probably never going to do.
1. renown hearts/poi/vista’s a second time around – I have quite literally been there done that once. I dont want to do it again.
Anets response? Lol suck a bag of D’s we’re nerfing the exp from other things that arent the above
my solution? Never bother to even attempt and level another character. I’ve had a ranger sitting there at level 8 because god help me I dont want to do all the zones ive already 100%‘d, and there’s now no longer a way for me to just rush my levels (and dont give me that “the whole game is endgame” bullkitten. I need levels to actually compare in WvWvW, and also to be able to do dungeons)

speaking of dungeons
2. Explorable paths more than once per character – low rewards, high difficulty, distinct lack of fun. Too tedious to bekitten with doing them more than once.
Anets response? “lol lets nerf the non-tedious dungeons!”
My solution? Never bother with them at all. I seriously just wont bother getting the gear from them. You can buy exotics with the best stats already, and the looks are literally not worth this kitten.

Speaking of looks
3. make a legendary – needs a metric buttload of mats
Anets solution – “Hey, people are gonna need like 750 of every t6 mat. Lets nerf the drop rates for these if you actively attempt to get them!”
My solution – just not to even try. I do like the idea of legendaries being legendary. But actively hindering farming, which is the only way to get them strike me as a dumb move.

and finally, currently,
4. WvWvW
This one isnt really Anets fault, brackets are just too silly right now. In a while they’ll even themselves out and WvWvW will be more fun.

Now, i’ve put ~300 hours into this game. So ive certainly got my moneys worth. But there’s no re-playability as far as I can see, and there’s very little reason to continue playing my level 80 character anyway. (and the only reasons keep getting nerfed every patch anyway…)

Guild wars is great for a first experience going through. Lot of content for the money, but dont expect it to hold your interest past your first character.

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Posted by: ref.8196

ref.8196

Gold sink.

Makes sense to me. You still get the same amount of tokens, so if you want to grind the same dungeon over and over again, you can still get your items, but you wont become super rich, enabling you to buy loads of gems, and thus eating in to A-nets revenue.

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Posted by: Grashopa.8176

Grashopa.8176

I was gonna write a whole long thing, but i deleted it about half way….

Anet say that they provided boosters in the cash shop to accomodate players who would rather invest $$$ instead of time into the game. However they also appear to be handicapping those who have unlimited time to play. That doesnt make sense to me, If somone has that much time that they can already be to level 80 (I have been playing as much as i can since headstart and only have a 34 and a 22…) and working on legendaries and whatever else they shouldnt have thier progress slowed…

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Posted by: ref.8196

ref.8196

As far as I can tell, guild wars 2 is an MMO trying as hard as it can be to not be an MMO.

~~~~~~~~
Guild wars is great for a first experience going through. Lot of content for the money, but dont expect it to hold your interest past your first character.

Most of that is subjective.

They did not “nerf” dungeons, they just limited exp and gold, all the other loot is the same. And that’s for “speed clearing” which I don’t actually know how they distinguish it, but it must be that just doing them normally is fine, but we shall see.

I was gonna write a whole long thing, but i deleted it about half way….

Anet say that they provided boosters in the cash shop to accomodate players who would rather invest $$$ instead of time into the game. However they also appear to be handicapping those who have unlimited time to play. That doesnt make sense to me, If somone has that much time that they can already be to level 80 (I have been playing as much as i can since headstart and only have a 34 and a 22…) and working on legendaries and whatever else they shouldnt have thier progress slowed…

Why does this slow the process of legendaries?

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Posted by: Elydian.1763

Elydian.1763

My solution – just not to even try. I do like the idea of legendaries being legendary. But actively hindering farming, which is the only way to get them strike me as a dumb move.

Yup, same for me. It would just be horribly frustrating. It’s completely ruining my motivation to even bother.

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Posted by: IanAwesome.3192

IanAwesome.3192

As far as I can tell, guild wars 2 is an MMO trying as hard as it can be to not be an MMO.

Which is really quite sad, because they’re squashing out any potential enjoyment to be had.

Lets run down the list of things im probably never going to do.
1. renown hearts/poi/vista’s a second time around – I have quite literally been there done that once. I dont want to do it again.
Anets response? Lol suck a bag of D’s we’re nerfing the exp from other things that arent the above
my solution? Never bother to even attempt and level another character. I’ve had a ranger sitting there at level 8 because god help me I dont want to do all the zones ive already 100%‘d, and there’s now no longer a way for me to just rush my levels (and dont give me that “the whole game is endgame” bullkitten. I need levels to actually compare in WvWvW, and also to be able to do dungeons)

speaking of dungeons
2. Explorable paths more than once per character – low rewards, high difficulty, distinct lack of fun. Too tedious to bekitten with doing them more than once.
Anets response? “lol lets nerf the non-tedious dungeons!”
My solution? Never bother with them at all. I seriously just wont bother getting the gear from them. You can buy exotics with the best stats already, and the looks are literally not worth this kitten.

Speaking of looks
3. make a legendary – needs a metric buttload of mats
Anets solution – “Hey, people are gonna need like 750 of every t6 mat. Lets nerf the drop rates for these if you actively attempt to get them!”
My solution – just not to even try. I do like the idea of legendaries being legendary. But actively hindering farming, which is the only way to get them strike me as a dumb move.

and finally, currently,
4. WvWvW
This one isnt really Anets fault, brackets are just too silly right now. In a while they’ll even themselves out and WvWvW will be more fun.

Now, i’ve put ~300 hours into this game. So ive certainly got my moneys worth. But there’s no re-playability as far as I can see, and there’s very little reason to continue playing my level 80 character anyway. (and the only reasons keep getting nerfed every patch anyway…)

Guild wars is great for a first experience going through. Lot of content for the money, but dont expect it to hold your interest past your first character.

The grind sounds crazier than it was back in Vanilla Aion and Tera ._.

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Posted by: PawPrince.5719

PawPrince.5719

I fully agree with the OP. You cannot have a game that requires grind and then punish people for grinding, yet this is what they are currently doing.

If you opt to not group up with others to do dungeons and PvP then you are left doing the same PvE events in a zone dozens of times in order to level to the next zone, but yet this is severely hindered by the hidden codes that kill your drops and such if you spend too much time in one zone.

As the OP said, it would be nice to get a clearer picture of how they do expect us to play the game. It’s as currently as confusing as Gale Gray’s statements of “The game was made to be played, not AFKed” concerning GW1, just prior to the implementation of even more holiday events/games that required you to set around AFK.

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Posted by: Shiren.9532

Shiren.9532

I didn’t think the karma grind for Orr armour was that bad until I tried to get my second piece. Karma is hard to build up unless you grind event chains. Exploring the world naturally will net you karma over time but you will still be a loooong way away from getting that Orr armour – the density of events outside of Orr is very sporadic, it’s very easy when you see this armour as a goal to quickly get dragged away from exploring once you hit upon an event dense part of the map (much of the world is very quiet, sometimes this feels intentional and other times it feels like the zone simply sucks). I don’t know why they made everything in this game at level 80 such a grind. Sure there are plenty of people who have this stuff but they are all grinding it and with each patch the grind is getting more intense and ArenaNet are offering no solutions, they aren’t fixing problems just nerfing symptoms.

The grind has become so intense it’s pushing people away from content. When I entered a dungeon in WoW I knew I was going to walk away with at least one cool item I’d like to have (or a chance to roll on one). I can’t believe I’m saying this but I wish the loot in GW2 dungeons was more like WoW dungeons. I KNOW I’m going to walk out of that dungeon with trash. Depending on the group, I’m probably going to leave with a hefty repair bill as well. I’m definitely not going to leave with any cool gear… unless it’s my 10th run or some garbage like that. If people thought they could get a single piece of armour each run, I bet more people would be willing to try out. Right now you know you will have to do dozens of runs, and anyone who isn’t seriously committed simply isn’t interested. The grind is so bad it’s pushing people away from content.

I can’t get the Twilight Arbor set outside of that one dungeon. I can’t get the Orr armour set without karma, so if I want these things I have to focus my time and effort into farming these specific areas. The grind is so intense it’s going to take me forever to do any of this if I spread my time across multiple areas of the game, so players focus on one thing, grind one thing because the game design (the grind for any goal) has herded them that way. If I had all exotics on my ranger today I’m certain I’d keep playing. Currently I am sick of wading through all the grind and mutually exclusive carrots which divide your time and require a lot of it.

I experienced the ArenaNet grind with GW1 but I really don’t understand why everything is so intense at 80 in GW2.

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Posted by: ref.8196

ref.8196

@PawPrince

why does this game require grinding?

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Posted by: Screenager.7804

Screenager.7804

The grind sounds crazier than it was back in Vanilla Aion and Tera ._.

Rather than get into specifics as it could go on and on and on… Having played these games I can assure really the grind is minimal. this is of course subjective to my experiences but having played these games I can reasonably compare I’d hope.

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Posted by: IanAwesome.3192

IanAwesome.3192

The grind sounds crazier than it was back in Vanilla Aion and Tera ._.

Rather than get into specifics as it could go on and on and on… Having played these games I can assure really the grind is minimal. this is of course subjective to my experiences but having played these games I can reasonably compare I’d hope.

I don’t know about you, but I’m really trying to get back into liking the way Guild Wars 2 is constructed. Aion as it is now feels less grindier than Guild Wars 2. Why?
Because farming hearts and DE’s is the only way to level up and their constructed the same way. In Aion and similiar games I could at least duel buddies, inspect their gear, get into groups (which was rewarding in itself), do dungeons pre-30’s and feel that my characters power grew and that I got somewhere. If I ever got bored of “questing” I could get into building a house, do dungeons, skin items, trade, etc.

I just don’t feel like my character’s evolving, aside from the fact that I discover new areas. Skill wise I don’t gain any new skills, and dungeons are none up until lvl 30. I’ve tried two classes up to 25 and I can’t see myself hold out to 30 where the dungeon probably won’t be anything “else” from any other mmo with a dungeon. As far as I see it: I and many others didn’t buy Guild Wars 2 because the lore and story is mindblowing.

The most important aspect for me was the MMO-elements such as gameplay (which is near perfect), graphics (which are fine) and pve/pvp (which in my opinion are too segregated). They just made the WvW sound more epic and grand than it is, which in my opinion, after spending countless hours in both sPVP and WvW feels more like a zerg than anything else.
The list could go on, but my main gripe is that pvp and pve is too segregated, where the pvp feels like a lobby-based ?pvp? game, but more zergy than anything else. I have actually never experienced or joined an sPvp game where people actually communicate, never, and I’ve played alot.

I have grown tired and jaded beyond imagination, and I really can’t figure out why. Doing hearts and DE’s which all are designed the same just isn’t fun after 20 levels. It’s all the same.

As I pointed out in another post: I miss alot of socializing aspects in the game. Running around and chatting up people, inspecting them, dueling them and justkitten around. No-one can in their right mind claim that Gw2 is more socially oriented because DE’s force strangers into half-existing groups where no-one communicated anyway. Hell, even the DE’s are a ALT-TAB zerg fest. I guess I’ll stay away from Gw2 for a week or so and hope that the joy of playing returns.

(edited by IanAwesome.3192)

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Posted by: Enoch.1058

Enoch.1058

There is no way you are ‘supposed’ to play. Play the game the way you enjoy it. If/when you can’t do that, move on.

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Posted by: ref.8196

ref.8196

To the above poster, for some reason I can’t quote:

Farming hearts and DEs? Seriously? Hearts are meant to be done once. Doing hearts is not grinding, it’s part of the game. If you want to farm DEs that’s a choice. I don’t even remember doing a DE more than twice, especially after the lvl 1-15 zone.

How about instead of inspecting players, ask what they are wearing? I don’t get why people are having social issues in a very social game.

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Posted by: ref.8196

ref.8196

And now I can’t edit, that was to IanAwesome.3192

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Posted by: iKami.4950

iKami.4950

Totally agree
The most challenging PvE content like dugeons should or even must reward players for completion, not like now with 1 copper plus few blue / green items for 78-80lv. Incredibly good example right here – Diablo 3, look at it how was ruined this game with same mechanic, when you are spending like 2-3 hours to complete something and getting garbage for it… as for me ill never come there again, i just dont want to waste my time.

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Posted by: Rpgtabbycat.5869

Rpgtabbycat.5869

I think one of the reasons they did that nerf to the dungeon runs was to prevent people from consistently farming the same path over and over just because it’s the easiest. That would have prevented people from being able to complete the more difficult paths due to players being unwilling to run alternate paths. I don’t think the nerf applies if you are doing all the different paths in the dungeons. Someone can correct me on that if I’m wrong, though.

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Posted by: iKami.4950

iKami.4950

I think one of the reasons they did that nerf to the dungeon runs was to prevent people from consistently farming the same path over and over just because it’s the easiest. That would have prevented people from being able to complete the more difficult paths due to players being unwilling to run alternate paths. I don’t think the nerf applies if you are doing all the different paths in the dungeons. Someone can correct me on that if I’m wrong, though.

- instead of this not-wise-move they could do valuable reward at the end of the dungeon, with this point problem of farming first boss solved.

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Posted by: IanAwesome.3192

IanAwesome.3192

To the above poster, for some reason I can’t quote:

Farming hearts and DEs? Seriously? Hearts are meant to be done once. Doing hearts is not grinding, it’s part of the game. If you want to farm DEs that’s a choice. I don’t even remember doing a DE more than twice, especially after the lvl 1-15 zone.

How about instead of inspecting players, ask what they are wearing? I don’t get why people are having social issues in a very social game.

“Farming hearts!” was badly put of me, sure, since you can only do them once. So end-game isn’t strictly limited to farming DE’s, dungeons and content you’ve already done 1-79?

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Posted by: WasAGuest.4973

WasAGuest.4973

Dueling and Inspecting are both fine as long as I can auto decline and “block” inspections. EQ1 had this and I loved it.

Wanna know what I’m wearing? Ask. Wanna duel? No thanks.

I find I do agree with some points though. The grind in GW2 is terri-bad. Mostly it seems to come from lack of understanding on Anet’s goals vs Player goals though.

Players want to experience the content looking like a hero. Anet wants players to experience the content THEN look like a hero. Opposites.
I think Anet is fearful of players leaving when they get to finally looking like the hero. Their content and event system is solid enough to at least hold my attention… IF I didn’t have to farm it before I could finally have my avatar look like a hero.

Not why this seems to be the case though. I bought lots of character slots in GW1. Each character had “prestige” armor, most had multiple sets. I still played and enjoyed it. However here, there’s no way I’m grinding more than one character to max stat gear much less a skin. Not when I also have to grind the gold/karma plus Fine T-stones to make use of them. Two or more “sets” – don’t make me laugh. (they artificially killed a lot of the replay value for me)

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Posted by: kal.4350

kal.4350

If they want players to keep playing, give them more things to look forward too, instead of extending the time required for get the same items to a month.

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Posted by: Hedyn.5917

Hedyn.5917

Buying gems doesn’t really eat so much into their revenue. Every gem seen on that market has been bought by another player.

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Posted by: Jnaathra.6549

Jnaathra.6549

I’ve already had a few friends bow out of the pve grinding. They have opt’ed to just do Spvp until things like this are sorted out.

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Posted by: ref.8196

ref.8196

To the above poster, for some reason I can’t quote:

Farming hearts and DEs? Seriously? Hearts are meant to be done once. Doing hearts is not grinding, it’s part of the game. If you want to farm DEs that’s a choice. I don’t even remember doing a DE more than twice, especially after the lvl 1-15 zone.

How about instead of inspecting players, ask what they are wearing? I don’t get why people are having social issues in a very social game.

“Farming hearts!” was badly put of me, sure, since you can only do them once. So end-game isn’t strictly limited to farming DE’s, dungeons and content you’ve already done 1-79?

It depends on the person, at the moment for me, endgame is trying to do all the dungeon paths, which will take a long time since a lot of them are rather hard.

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Posted by: DusK.3849

DusK.3849

There’s plenty of insight into their philosophy on their blog. Lots of it, spanning several years. How did you miss all of that stuff?

Like rock and metal remixes of video game music? Check out my site and get your headbang on!
Also, Hardcore Adventure Box.
Server: Yak’s Bend | Main Character: Jaswinder Eventide

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Posted by: FarFarAway.6579

FarFarAway.6579

The grind sounds crazier than it was back in Vanilla Aion and Tera ._.

There is no grind crazier than Vanilla Aion. :p

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Posted by: Elusive.9162

Elusive.9162

@PawPrince

why does this game require grinding?

Because the costs of rares and exotics were greatly increased (be it karma or gold).

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Posted by: Viking.1950

Viking.1950

The grind sounds crazier than it was back in Vanilla Aion and Tera ._.

There is no grind crazier than Vanilla Aion. :p

Lineage 2 before the nerf in the months before f2p it took literally YEARS to legitimately reach lvl 85.

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Posted by: FarFarAway.6579

FarFarAway.6579

The grind sounds crazier than it was back in Vanilla Aion and Tera ._.

There is no grind crazier than Vanilla Aion. :p

Lineage 2 before the nerf in the months before f2p it took literally YEARS to legitimately reach lvl 85.

You may be right. I gave up at lvl 35.

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Posted by: mortem.1907

mortem.1907

Oh yes the patch, awesome increase the difficulty (CM understandable) and cut the rewards and i am not talking about the “Anti Speed-Run” generaaly it was cut.

As a Level 80 Char i got normaly in a Dungeon atleast 177.000 EP and around 20s per run.
I just didthe “improved” CM-Stor with my friends or better said just more trashmobs and harder at some points. The Reward………1/3 of the EP around 66.000 and only 9S….

Okay…

9s IN
2s OUT Fasttravel
2s OUT Repaircost
4s IN Loot i sold…. and not even ONE freaking exotic or rare…

Thats just Bullkitten its one thing to make a easy Dungeon harder no problem with that…only to cut the rewards more then half, because of those chinafarmers? Are you kitten kidding me..there are guys that has over 100g because of farming now you punish all players that didnt had the time.
Dont let me talk about that “cashshop” who in his right mind would convert gems into gold when you need to pay more then 40€ to get even 10Gold… i clearly see where this game is going….down my toilett if this keeps up

“No grinding philosphy” i see it totally…

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Posted by: Knighthonor.4061

Knighthonor.4061

hey you all mind linking the patch note?

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Posted by: FarFarAway.6579

FarFarAway.6579

You guys do realize why waypoints cost so much, why you get so little silver/gold from high level quests, dungeons, etc, right?

Its all about profiting from microtransactions.

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Posted by: azurrei.5691

azurrei.5691

I have to agree with the OP – the “game with no grind” is about as grindy as a modern day MMO could possibly become…and yet they have anti-grind countermeasures up the wazoo everywhere in the game. The “Anti-Farm code” needs to go or become MUCH less strict. I seriously should not have to stop farming mobs (that I have no choice in the matter – they are they ONLY mobs outside of a dungeon no one runs that drop the item) after 30 minutes just because Anet wants to “stop” bots – come up with a better solution rather than punishing actual players.

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Posted by: Strill.2591

Strill.2591

You forgot about the dynamic event limit. A player with a karma booster farming a good amount of events can hit the cap in less than half an hour.

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Posted by: nerva.7940

nerva.7940

The latest patch notes have left a lot of people further confused about how you want us to play the game. The vast majority of endgame desirables, as well as much of endgame crafting requires what most people would describe as a large amount of grind.

Some people are fine with grind, some are not. I won’t express an opinion either way. What I’m concerned by is the seemingly confused and conflicted philosophy that you appear to have on it. You set up endgame as a grind, yet you continue to expand upon measures to stop grinding. Right now, as a player, I’m not really sure what to do anymore, as all the things I’d like to work towards in the game require grind, yet you seem insistent upon stopping me doing so.

I understand that the change to dungeons is to encourage people to play a larger variety. I also understand that the mob-type loot-lock is to discourage botters. However, these measures infringe upon our gameplay too much, and are counter to what the endgame requires.

Can you help me and other players understand how you want us to play the game? Because right now, I’m not sure.

i’ll explain it to you. they dont want u to grind dungeons. if u must do so, grind explorables. they also want currency to matter. the end.

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Posted by: Knote.2904

Knote.2904

I think what they not want you to do is getting these things done within 2 days of your so called ‘grind’. Think about it!

Sure you want your special dungeon skins, sure you want your legendaries.
Would it make sense from A-Nets PoV to make it possible to achieve it all in a week?
The longer you play, the better for the company.

And from my PoV: Do what you enjoy, not what you feel like you must do. You get bored of one part then enjoy another. PvE, WvW, sPvP.
There is a lot to do, dont limit yourself!

This is what I don’t understand.

Why is it ok for there to be something like legendaries/dungeon skins to grind for so we have something to do/work on, but any other carrot that serves the exact same purpose (optional grind) gets hated on and people spew “it’s not gw2’s design philosophy this is not your game”?

“The longer you play the better for the company” It’s funny because this is goes against the whole “no endgame” “no grind” “no gear progression” thing.

It’s just annoying when this type of optional grind is what I want to see more of just so there IS more things to do to keep playing but yet so many people bark at you for asking for it lol. There is no reason not to have more optional carrots.

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Posted by: Gauradan.8361

Gauradan.8361

There’s plenty of insight into their philosophy on their blog. Lots of it, spanning several years. How did you miss all of that stuff?

Funny though that older posts contradict the newer ones. I guess ArenaNet are either so shameless that they went back on everything they said without asking us, the customers, or they have schizophrenia. I’m most certain it is the former, but were it the latter, the question comes to mind whether they should be developing video games.

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Posted by: Banjal.7328

Banjal.7328

New MMO,same old MMO ways.

It’s D3 all over again.

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Posted by: Cuchullain.3104

Cuchullain.3104

“I have to agree with the OP – the “game with no grind” is about as grindy as a modern day MMO could possibly become…and yet they have anti-grind countermeasures up the wazoo everywhere in the game. The “Anti-Farm code” needs to go or become MUCH less strict. I seriously should not have to stop farming mobs (that I have no choice in the matter – they are they ONLY mobs outside of a dungeon no one runs that drop the item) after 30 minutes just because Anet wants to “stop” bots – come up with a better solution rather than punishing actual players.”

QFT.

We were told this game has no grind but in fact it is a grindfest from Hell. You have to grind for just about everything in this game if you want to craft. Just to move from point A to point B in Orr is an incredibly frustrating and unfun grind in itself, let alone having to fight through 300 super-fast zombies to get 15 orichalcum..

Variable drop rates are a form of psychological torture. Grinding for hours against mobs that cc you, swarm you, and respawn on top of you just to get the things you need for crafting is demoralizing. But if it is possible to make this grind even more frustrating, unfun and demoralizing, hidden “anti-farm” code that reduces the already abysmal drop rates even further or eliminates the drops altogether would surely be the way to do it.

You force people to grind, then punish them for grinding. Let’s be real here, this is horrible game design at its worst.

At the very least you should be open about what these anti-farm measures are and how they work so we can work around them. Your alleged motive for punishing players this way is botters, but I see hundreds of botters openly and flagrantly operating in plain sight for days and nothing gets done about them. They’re not felling the heat, but we are.

I get the impression sometimes that Anet doesn’t want me to play their game. They are certainly destroying my incentive for doing so.

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Posted by: ChairGraveyard.2967

ChairGraveyard.2967

Agreed, I’m tired of getting punished for trying to play by getting constantly decreasing loot (which was already crap for the most part) and money.

The anti-farming/anti-event/anti-dungeon systems are making it so that literally any thing I can think of to do will simply get me punished and end up being a net loss due to waypoint and repair costs.

I would much much rather have bots be getting loot and items than to get none myself for actual play. The anti-farming system is unequivocally WORSE in every way than the problem it was designed to fix, and only punishes legitimate non-bot players.

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Posted by: MrsAngelD.6971

MrsAngelD.6971

I have to agree, how can you encourage grind, then make everything in the game a non grind. We have to have a happy medium Anet, people need feel like it’s not going to take eons of time to accomplish something.

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Posted by: Zay.6357

Zay.6357

I would much much rather have bots be getting loot and items than to get none myself for actual play. The anti-farming system is unequivocally WORSE in every way than the problem it was designed to fix, and only punishes legitimate non-bot players.

hm hm agreed

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Posted by: ref.8196

ref.8196

I can understand them reducing the amount of money for doing dungeons.

But does anyone know if other loot is affected, such as loot (equip) from chests?

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Posted by: Serin.3917

Serin.3917

Considering you only need to do dungeons as an OPTION to get a different cosmetic look, perhaps your viewpoint on dungeons being grindy is the problem in the first place.

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Posted by: Gareth Porlest.7209

Gareth Porlest.7209

The problem stems from the fact that the dungeon grind isn’t fun at all and there is way to much of it required to get the armor piece. They should have followed the way they did it with Obsidian armor in GW 1. That was grindy too but it didn’t feel like it at all. Even when farming shards for it. Maybe because you knew you could get a lot in a run?

In this game you know exactly what amount you’re going to get (tokens) and you always get that amount..there’s no randomness to it and that makes it kind of boring after the 15th time. If you could get a range, say 5-25 per boss encounter and then a low chance at a random token drop per mob..it probably would be a hell of a lot more fun to do the dungeons.

I just don’t understand why they went backwards in this aspect. Guild Wars had grind for the best armor but it was a fun grind because everything was random and you could get it all within a week or it could take months depending on how you did things. But you could have fun both ways.

With this game, you can get it soon or later, but trying to get it soon requires you to have no fun at all..if you can have fun doing a dungeon 20 times in a row+ then more power to you I guess but still it’s quite ridiculous.

Now this is all my opinion of course, but I had fun grinding for my armors in Guild Wars 1. I don’t have fun doing it in this game. That tells me they went the wrong way (for me) in this game when it comes to that.

The longevity that Guild Wars had isn’t present in this game when it comes to the grind/farm game. Which means as long as it stays like this, it won’t last for more than a month for me. Which is sad really because they were able to keep me entranced with GW….so why not with this game?