Why do PvE bosses seem to equate to...

Why do PvE bosses seem to equate to...

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Posted by: Zoralink.9836

Zoralink.9836

…“high health” rather than “boss”?

Just something I’ve noticed after doing various dungeons, fractals, and world events.

Any time something is intended as a ‘boss’ fight, rather than making them have interesting mechanics, high damage, or some other such thing, the simplest thing that ArenaNet has done is smash the 0 key on the keyboard until they have obnoxiously high amounts of health. This just makes bosses tedious to fight, rather than fun or interesting. Bosses typically have one or two mechanics to learn, at most, then you know the fight inside and out, yet the fight can continue for up to ten minutes simply because they have so much health. It’s not fun. It’s not challenging. It’s annoying.

Why did they choose this as a design philosophy? It makes the PvE side of the game incredibly frustrating.

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Posted by: Quarktastic.1027

Quarktastic.1027

Because, the longer a fight takes, the greater the odds of someone screwing up. I guess.

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Posted by: Rustypipes.6238

Rustypipes.6238

How is this any different from other MMOs? You are basically doing the exact same thing, mashing a few keys and moving out of the way of damage.

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Posted by: Zoralink.9836

Zoralink.9836

How is this any different from other MMOs? You are basically doing the exact same thing, mashing a few keys and moving out of the way of damage.

Except in Guild Wars 2, many of the fights there’s barely even anything to dodge. Even more so in Guild Wars 2 in contrast with other MMOs, with the way aggro and healing (Or lack thereof) works, there’s even less to do. It becomes “Smash buttons until it dies”… if you feel like it. Half the time it feels like (And sometimes you can!) just hit auto attack and go AFK for the next five minutes. Even ‘tough’ boss fights many times become ‘zerg it until it dies’. It’s silly. Fights become an absolute cluster—— with it becoming near impossible to follow what’s going on, resulting in little strategy and just hitting all your damaging abilities.

Other MMOs have structure and form of some kind. Guild Wars might be trying to break the mold, and I understand why it wants to do so, but it’s implementation of it, at least in terms of PvE, backfires and has made PvE combat extremely simplistic.

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Posted by: Minos.5168

Minos.5168

How is this any different from other MMOs? You are basically doing the exact same thing, mashing a few keys and moving out of the way of damage.

Except in other games, you have well-timed boss fight mechanics that add interest to the boss fight.

Take the Jade Maw as an example of a boss done right.

There’s a decent amount of time between each of the Maw’s attacks.

The only suggestion I’d have to improve it is: Make the “you’re targeted” notification more visible on the targeted player’s screen to ease confusion. Like maybe some text on screen to state “Quick! Grab a crystal!”

The fractal boss fights are definitely an improvement over the dungeon bosses. (Granted, I still think other games manage to do better at boss fights… but it’s a good improvement.)

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Posted by: Rainzar.6905

Rainzar.6905

so which bosses are done “right” and which are not? most seem to be “move out of red circle” types with alot of hp.

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Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

It becomes “Smash buttons until it dies”… if you feel like it. Half the time it feels like (And sometimes you can!) just hit auto attack and go AFK for the next five minutes. Even ‘tough’ boss fights many times become ‘zerg it until it dies’. It’s silly.

You say this, and I’m wondering if we play the same game.

I’m gonna list some dungeons, and bosses contained in them where I’d love to see you go AFK for 5 minutes and expect to survive. (Ignoring any exploits which allows you to afk and kill the boss, because they do exist but it’s not due to the boss mechanics.)

AC:
Kholer
Howling King
Colossus Rumblus

CM:
Sure Shot Sheamus
Wahlen

TA:
Malrona

SE:
Volkov

I’m gonna stop cuz I’m sure you get my point. And we’re missing some obvious ones like Alpha and Lupi.

On some of these bosses, I’m sure you can “Zerg” it by just wping back if you get downed. That’ll lead to a hugely inefficient time doing these bosses as opposed to, you know, learning the boss mechanics and learning how to survive.

Unfortunately, not all bosses are perfect and challenging. There are some bosses that are complete snoozefests. However, when you say stuff like “I can kill HALF the bosses in this game by AFKing for 5 minutes,” I seriously wonder if we play the same game.

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Posted by: Zoralink.9836

Zoralink.9836

You say this, and I’m wondering if we play the same game.

I’m gonna list some dungeons, and bosses contained in them where I’d love to see you go AFK for 5 minutes and expect to survive. (Ignoring any exploits which allows you to afk and kill the boss, because they do exist but it’s not due to the boss mechanics.)

I’m gonna stop cuz I’m sure you get my point. And we’re missing some obvious ones like Alpha and Lupi.

On some of these bosses, I’m sure you can “Zerg” it by just wping back if you get downed. That’ll lead to a hugely inefficient time doing these bosses as opposed to, you know, learning the boss mechanics and learning how to survive.

Unfortunately, not all bosses are perfect and challenging. There are some bosses that are complete snoozefests. However, when you say stuff like “I can kill HALF the bosses in this game by AFKing for 5 minutes,” I seriously wonder if we play the same game.

The fact that there’s ANY where it’s possible to do so is telling. I’m exaggerating, to some extent, but at the very least while leveling (I admit, I haven’t gotten heavily into explorable mode, but so far what I’ve experienced in fractals and story mode hasn’t exactly made me inclined to bother with my time in explorable), dungeons are incredibly dull and uninspired. Bosses are dull, fights devolve into ‘dodge red circles’ while spamming your most damaging attacks.

Even the fact that you can ‘zerg’, regardless of how inefficient (Not the point), is incredibly moronic. If you can die, run back to a boss, and still attack them, the fight is broken, plain and simple. There’s little to no punishment for failure in this game. It’s silly, and makes fights feel incredibly… insipid.

And of that list you made, if you can list more than a few bosses that have more than one or two mechanics that are required to be followed (Dodge fire pillar, then hide behind fire pillar) doesn’t count as a complex mechanic, for example, than I will happily eat my words. However, after playing through every fractal, and every dungeon up to the 70 dungeon, I haven’t seen a single interesting boss, I’m less than inclined to find PvE in this game very fun or interesting.

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Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

Even the fact that you can ‘zerg’, regardless of how inefficient (Not the point), is incredibly moronic. If you can die, run back to a boss, and still attack them, the fight is broken, plain and simple. There’s little to no punishment for failure in this game. It’s silly, and makes fights feel incredibly… insipid.

Significantly longer clear times and larger repair bills not punishment enough for you?

And of that list you made, if you can list more than a few bosses that have more than one or two mechanics that are required to be followed (Dodge fire pillar, then hide behind fire pillar) doesn’t count as a complex mechanic, for example, than I will happily eat my words. However, after playing through every fractal, and every dungeon up to the 70 dungeon, I haven’t seen a single interesting boss, I’m less than inclined to find PvE in this game very fun or interesting.

Sorry, you’re saying two things here.

You say most bosses have a single mechanic. That is true. I personally don’t mind it, because even if you know the mechanic just timing my dodges is exhilarating, and something I still can’t do 100% of the time. But that’s just my personal opinion. There is a few bosses who have more than one mechanic (Rumblus, Alpha, Lupi, Colossal Fractal Boss, Grawl Fractal Boss comes to mind) but they are few.

Rumblus: Rock Drop, shout
Alpha: Ice AoE, Fire AoE, Cages
Lupi: 3 stages.
Colossal Fractal: 3 Stages
Grawl: Agony arrow, shield bubble, elementals, can’t stand still

You then say bosses can be killed by AFKing for 5 minutes. This is completely and utterly false, and the biggest problem I have with one of your posts. This is true only for a small number of bosses, and it’s mainly because of an exploit of some sort.

(edited by Ursan.7846)

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Posted by: Zoralink.9836

Zoralink.9836

Significantly longer clear times and larger repair bills not punishment enough for you?

Not really, no. An arbitrary punishment unrelated to any particular failure of the fight isn’t really a punishment, it’s just an annoyance. There’s little incentive to worry too much about learning a fight, as money isn’t that big of a deal to lose a bit of, particularly when you’ll make it back after the boss dies.

Sorry, you’re saying two things here.

You say most bosses have a single mechanic. That is true. I personally don’t mind it, because even if you know the mechanic just timing my dodges is exhilarating, and something I still can’t do 100% of the time. But that’s just my personal opinion. There is a few bosses who have more than one mechanic (Rumblus, Alpha, Lupi, Colossal Fractal Boss, Grawl Fractal Boss comes to mind) but they are few.

Rumblus: Rock Drop, shout
Alpha: Ice AoE, Fire AoE, Cages
Lupi: 3 stages.
Colossal Fractal: 3 Stages
Grawl: Agony arrow, shield bubble, elementals, can’t stand still

You then say bosses can be killed by AFKing for 5 minutes. This is completely and utterly false, and the biggest problem I have with one of your posts. This is true only for a small number of bosses, and it’s mainly because of an exploit of some sort.

http://static2.fjcdn.com/comments/and+you+re+captain+Literal+_7166fe9bf9462aab608d6cb316789a9a.jpg

I think you need to learn what hyperbole and exaggeration is.

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Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

Not really, no. An arbitrary punishment unrelated to any particular failure of the fight isn’t really a punishment, it’s just an annoyance. There’s little incentive to worry too much about learning a fight, as money isn’t that big of a deal to lose a bit of, particularly when you’ll make it back after the boss dies.

Arbitrary? Unrelated to particular failure of the fight?

I’m sorry if I’m misunderstanding something you’re saying, but I think the punishment is very related to your failure in a fight.

If you miss a dodge → you get downed.
You get downed → your team does significant less damage
Sometimes you get defeated → repair bills on top of more time spent on boss fights. If armor is broken, you lose stats from that armor and makes the fight even harder.

How are you differenciating between a “punishment” and “annoyance?” I do not think they are mutually exclusive.

Money and time are both incentives. Would you rather earn 10s, or would you rather earn 4 s (10s – 6s in repair bills). Would you rather do all 3 paths of AC in under 1.5 hours? Or would you rather slave away 3 hours at it?

But I’m curious, what do you think constitutes as good “punishment?” GW2’s punishment is pretty similar to other games. If you miss a jump, you die. You have to spend more tokens/money for more lives. You have to repeat the portion where you died on, thus lengthening the time it’s taking you to clear the level.

Yes, I realize what an hyperbole is. They’re stupid and pointless to state if you’re trying to have a serious discussion. If you don’t like people calling out your exaggerations, don’t make them in the first place.

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Posted by: Zoralink.9836

Zoralink.9836

/monetary bullcrap.

I think the point has flown way over your head. The fact that you can essentially beat a boss without truly comprehending the mechanics, with no downside other than a bit of monetary loss, which is typically made up for by defeating said boss, is silly.

I have no idea what you’re spouting with jumps and whatnot, no one has mentioned them. For someone claiming to remain on topic and not wanting to make pointless statement, you’re remarkably effective at making them.

Yes, I realize what an hyperbole is. They’re stupid and pointless to state if you’re trying to have a serious discussion. If you don’t like people calling out your exaggerations, don’t make them in the first place.

I don’t expect people to be so kitten serious about it either, and to be able to recognize a bit of satire. I expect people to be able to view life through a bit of a glass, rather than glaring angrily out their window.

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Posted by: plasmacutter.2709

plasmacutter.2709

In dynamic events, you CAN have a large number of players.

I know for instance that teq and shatterer have hp that’s pretty low as-is on sea of sorrows.

I can have shatterer called at-spawn, waypoint there immediately, and by the time I’m in a position to attack it’s down 50%

In dungeons, I would love to see lower hp, but other mechanics (think arah p4)

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Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

I think the point has flown way over your head. The fact that you can essentially beat a boss without truly comprehending the mechanics, with no downside other than a bit of monetary loss, which is typically made up for by defeating said boss, is silly.

Is spending more time doing said boss not a downside? Or are you gonna choose to ignore that?

Also “making up” the repair bills with the boss drops STILL MEANS you get less money. This is a fact. Like, a fact. It is a monetary loss, no matter how you like to look at it.

Yes, you can possibly beat a boss without understanding its mechanics. But most likely, it will take a significantly longer time and have higher repair bills. That is a punishment. Please explain why this is an “arbitrary” punishment and not a good one. And what the difference, in your view, of an “punishment” and an “annoyance” is. I asked that in my previous post but apparently you chose not to answer.

I have no idea what you’re spouting with jumps and whatnot, no one has mentioned them. For someone claiming to remain on topic and not wanting to make pointless statement, you’re remarkably effective at making them.

Are you serious? Or are you blatantly not understanding/ignoring the majority of my posts for some reason? Does the fact that I use the word “jump” instead of “dodge” negate my point? Or do you choose to take one WORD out of context and attack it while ignoring the rest of my post?

BTW, if you misunderstood my analogy, I was stating that many other video games have similar “punishment” to GW2. I stated this analogy because I’m curious what kind of “punishment” you proposed. Another question in my post which you chosen not to answer…

EDIT: Forgive me if I sound frustrated and angry. I am. I’m trying to have a serious discussion and trying to make a point, but you seem intent on ignoring my points and attacking strawmen arguments. If you don’t want to have a serious discussion, that’s perfectly fine, and we can go our separate merry ways.

(edited by Ursan.7846)

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Posted by: Death Reincarnated.3570

Death Reincarnated.3570

It is the simplest method to make the game more challenging – although, does not usually equate to as much fun.

Proud member of Legion of Honour XIII

Do not click this link!

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Posted by: FacesOfMu.3561

FacesOfMu.3561

I noticed this most for the map boss for Harathi Hinterlands, the Centaur lord in the north east. Feels more like a boss fight of endurance than skill.
Long, tedious fights like these really made me notice the repetition of fighting; normal combat has far fewer cycles of my skill bar. I wonder how they can balance fun, well timed battles versus hugely variable player numbers on map bosses other than health?

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Posted by: Zoralink.9836

Zoralink.9836

Is spending more time doing said boss not a downside? Or are you gonna choose to ignore that?

Also “making up” the repair bills with the boss drops STILL MEANS you get less money. This is a fact. Like, a fact. It is a monetary loss, no matter how you like to look at it.

Yes, you can possibly beat a boss without understanding its mechanics. But most likely, it will take a significantly longer time and have higher repair bills. That is a punishment. Please explain why this is an “arbitrary” punishment and not a good one. And what the difference, in your view, of an “punishment” and an “annoyance” is. I asked that in my previous post but apparently you chose not to answer.

A punishment would be a full on reset when everyone died, and removing the ability to run back to a boss. An annoyance is having to run back to the boss. It doesn’t really force you to learn the mechanics and is unrelated to the boss in particular, hence, arbitrary. Having a full on reset if your team screws up forces you to learn what to do or risk having it all go horribly wrong once again.

Are you serious? Or are you blatantly not understanding/ignoring the majority of my posts for some reason? Does the fact that I use the word “jump” instead of “dodge” negate my point? Or do you choose to take one WORD out of context and attack it while ignoring the rest of my post?

BTW, if you misunderstood my analogy, I was stating that many other video games have similar “punishment” to GW2. I stated this analogy because I’m curious what kind of “punishment” you proposed. Another question in my post which you chosen not to answer…

EDIT: Forgive me if I sound frustrated and angry. I am. I’m trying to have a serious discussion and trying to make a point, but you seem intent on ignoring my points and attacking strawmen arguments. If you don’t want to have a serious discussion, that’s perfectly fine, and we can go our separate merry ways.

Actually I did misunderstand it. Calm down there chum. I was wondering why you were bringing jumping moments of dungeons into the equation.

But I’m curious, what do you think constitutes as good “punishment?” GW2’s punishment is pretty similar to other games. If you miss a jump, you die. You have to spend more tokens/money for more lives. You have to repeat the portion where you died on, thus lengthening the time it’s taking you to clear the level.

Not really, and that’s a large part of what I draw issue with. Bosses are long and tedious, and even if you manage to screw up, you can still run right back to the boss.

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Posted by: Aether the Nob.9172

Aether the Nob.9172

…yeah. That’s why I don’t PVE. It’s repetitive and the moves of the bosses are easy to figure out. The answer to you is simple: either PVP, where you will definitely get what you’re looking for in terms of combat, or WVW.

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Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

A punishment would be a full on reset when everyone died, and removing the ability to run back to a boss.

Most bosses in normal dungeons reset their hp fully if all party members wipe and they de-aggro.

In Fractals, there are no WPs. You can’t use the tactic you describe.

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Posted by: Zoralink.9836

Zoralink.9836

Most bosses in normal dungeons reset their hp fully if all party members wipe and they de-aggro.

In Fractals, there are no WPs. You can’t use the tactic you describe.

That’s pretty hard to pull off in dungeons, unless everyone screws up a mechanic. Even one person can survive a decent amount of time alone, let alone several, while people run back to finish a boss. I’ve been with several groups that, frankly, deserved to wipe and lose all their progress, but just continued to zerg the boss with respawns. It’s silly.

And regardless, this is beyond the scope of the point. It’s merely an additional irritation on top of bosses being tedious.

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Posted by: Ursan.7846

Ursan.7846

That’s pretty hard to pull off in dungeons, unless everyone screws up a mechanic. Even one person can survive a decent amount of time alone, let alone several, while people run back to finish a boss. I’ve been with several groups that, frankly, deserved to wipe and lose all their progress, but just continued to zerg the boss with respawns. It’s silly.

And these people who are zerging the boss with respawns are losing money by the fistful, and taking a hell of a longer time to kill said boss. I personally think this is a good enough punishment. But I guess we don’t agree on this point, so we’ll agree to disagree.

Also, full party wipes (with a bad group) happen quite often in bosses like Lupi, Alpha because the WPs are reaaaaaaaaally far away. I do agree with you on one point though, WP zerging is a bit silly. I much prefer the Fractal system of checkpoints instead of WPs, and them implementing that in Fractals shows that they (Anet) are learning and improving.

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Posted by: Chase.8415

Chase.8415

Then you must not be really doing fractals, there are vast changes in boss mechanics each tier and sometimes levels.

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Posted by: Minion of Vey.4398

Minion of Vey.4398

In high level fractals, the bosses have a lot of hps AND hit really hard.

Currently it’s really the only vaguely challenging content, though of course any of it is easy after you run it over and over.

The standard explorable dungeons don’t really compare.

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Posted by: Lorana.2468

Lorana.2468

How is this any different from other MMOs? You are basically doing the exact same thing, mashing a few keys and moving out of the way of damage.

Except in other games, you have well-timed boss fight mechanics that add interest to the boss fight.

Take the Jade Maw as an example of a boss done right.

There’s a decent amount of time between each of the Maw’s attacks.

The only suggestion I’d have to improve it is: Make the “you’re targeted” notification more visible on the targeted player’s screen to ease confusion. Like maybe some text on screen to state “Quick! Grab a crystal!”

The fractal boss fights are definitely an improvement over the dungeon bosses. (Granted, I still think other games manage to do better at boss fights… but it’s a good improvement.)

if you think Jade Maw is a boss done right then your experience of Boss fights seems extremely limited.

this game has only 1 really well done boss fight, and that’s Lupus in Arah, the fight is so well done that a dedicated enough player managed to beat him solo.
Subject alpha in CoE is also another boss whom requires you to pay attention to the fight, but he has the tendancy to bug out and not do anything half the time.

the rest of the bosses are for the most part nothing but punchbags that drop loot.

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Posted by: Sollith.3502

Sollith.3502

I think the aggro system needs to be redone a bit for bosses, because it seems that a boss will often aggro to one person half the battle (and then it just becomes run around in circles while everyone else just avoids the occasional AOE; and some of those AOEs are just ridiculous and seem to just be a cover up for not having very deep boss mechanics).

So, how can they improve?

1. I think that adjusting the aggro to have boss level enemies switch targets a bit more frequently and target “weaker” players more would be a good way to start. Certain actions, like using a heal at low hp, should easily be able to attract aggro (heck if you see a player with low hp in pvp you aren’t going to just let them get away with it; why should pve enemies do so?).

2. Better animated telegraphing; if an enemy is about to do some massive hit, you should be able to see it coming. The “windup” animations just need to be better in lot of cases. The red circles should be there still for targeting, but otherwise you should be able to clearly see an attack coming by the boss avatars animations.

3. Less reliance on large AOEs to make encounter difficult; I don’t know if it’s just me, but it seems there is an over reliance on large AOE fields to make boss battles difficult in Gw2.

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Posted by: Lutharr.1035

Lutharr.1035

well they are reworking the dungeons so maybe this is something they have already addressed internally.

Go back to WoW. Most overused brainless arguement 2012-2013

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Posted by: Minion of Vey.4398

Minion of Vey.4398

I like the Jade Maw fight. It’s not a difficult fight nor is it complex. Just find it fun.

It’s fun dodging the beam of death when you don’t have a shard nearby in fancy ways. My favorite being ele fire staff #4.

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Posted by: plasmacutter.2709

plasmacutter.2709

I’d like to see invisible barriers put up on waypoints when bosses are engaged.

This would prevent corpse-conga boss fights and force people to learn and help their downed.

other than that, I think a few more mechanics requiring intelligence such as stopping dps (projectile reflects, super-retaliation) and heals that need to be interrupted by knocking down defiance, etc should be added.

The boss fights are still far more interactive than simply ’don’t stand in fire and dish out as much dps or heals as possible’

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Posted by: Zeldain.5710

Zeldain.5710

To OP: Because the combat system has no basis for organization or roles. It’s designed to be a zerg that can be taken on by anyone passing by.

Meaning no special abilities, no punishing mechanics… just zerg for all the DPS classes (read: all the classes.)

Just bad combat design, that’s why bosses are lame.

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Posted by: Zoralink.9836

Zoralink.9836

To OP: Because the combat system has no basis for organization or roles. It’s designed to be a zerg that can be taken on by anyone passing by.

Meaning no special abilities, no punishing mechanics… just zerg for all the DPS classes (read: all the classes.)

Just bad combat design, that’s why bosses are lame.

I guess that’s where I draw issue with it. I really wish they DID have roles to some extent in this game.

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Posted by: arjeidi.2690

arjeidi.2690

This is what bosses were like in GW1. I don’t know why anyone is surprised, tbh. Bosses had more health and did more damage. But preparing for them was the same as for regular mobs. Just nuke the hell out of them and move on.

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Posted by: Zeldain.5710

Zeldain.5710

To OP: Because the combat system has no basis for organization or roles. It’s designed to be a zerg that can be taken on by anyone passing by.

Meaning no special abilities, no punishing mechanics… just zerg for all the DPS classes (read: all the classes.)

Just bad combat design, that’s why bosses are lame.

I guess that’s where I draw issue with it. I really wish they DID have roles to some extent in this game.

I’m with ya brother.

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Posted by: hharry.1967

hharry.1967

I think the reason is that this game is for more casual, normal people gameplay. You wont see elitists guides and guilds doing extremely complex and extense fights like you would see in WoW. Sometimes complex, and complicated, like WoW’s bosses, is not fun. The bosses can be easy AND fun like here, i actually enjoyed most of them, excluding a few kitten bosses ofc.

One thing i may agree, is that ressing back and keeping fighting is a bit lame, at least against bosses. And also there should be some indications about agro as well.

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Posted by: Wasabi Kitty.8247

Wasabi Kitty.8247

Because anet wants this game to be accessible which means they have to dumb it down for people.

Lets look at one boss that’s somewhat remotely challenging.

Giganticus Lupicus.

It’s really not a hard fight. For phase 1 you group up and kill any grubs that he spawns.

During phase 2 you kill the initial grub. From that point on you DPS him down. When he charges to you, you dodge. When he uses his giant AOE, you either avoid the incoming attacks, or you block them.

During phase 3 you just avoid his easy as hell to avoid attacks, dodge roll out of the circle he places you in.

It’s really not that difficult, and yet people fail it all the time. A lot of people completely avoid arah because of the fight because they think it’s “too hard”

The simple fact is anet won’t put any difficult fights or interesting mechanics in, because too many people won’t be able to handle it.

Wasabi Kittah – 80 ele, Amder – 80 thief
Level 37 fractals, Dungeon master
[EMP] – Jade Quarry

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Posted by: hharry.1967

hharry.1967

Something i love about the pve in this game is that you dont need to spend 8-10 hours on a dungeon with a specific schedule. You can just hop on your character, find a random team do a dungeon actually get useful stuff if you are needing them and then leave in less than 1 hour.

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Posted by: Zatria.5783

Zatria.5783

To me, all bosses equate to tank and spank. All of them that I have fought so far.

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Posted by: Zoralink.9836

Zoralink.9836

To me, all bosses equate to tank and spank. All of them that I have fought so far.

My feelings exactly.

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Posted by: Rhaps.8540

Rhaps.8540

Tank and spank? There are barely any bosses you can ‘tank’ in this game. Unless by tank you mean, kite & dodge? And still seeing as you cant keep aggro that won’t ‘tank’ them for long either.

As Ursan and others already pointed out there are plenty of bosses that offer a challenge and different mechanics to deal with. You like the Jade Maw? Then go play CoF and SE story mode, both of their final bosses have mechanics related to the environment and can’t be attacked directly by normal means. On top of that there are the numerous bosses that can 1-shot you, trap you, stunlock you, poison you etc etc. scattered through the dungeons/fractals.

I think you need to spend a bit more time in the dungeons to actually get an idea of what Anet put in before declaring it all high-hp boring trash.

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Posted by: Wasabi Kitty.8247

Wasabi Kitty.8247

Maybe people should run more than just AC and CoF

Wasabi Kittah – 80 ele, Amder – 80 thief
Level 37 fractals, Dungeon master
[EMP] – Jade Quarry

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Posted by: Alipius.4783

Alipius.4783

I really loved Mario with terrible bosses that throw things you need to avoid…
But it’s somehow light for Gw2.

There is one good thing about gw2. I play gw1 again.

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Posted by: Zoralink.9836

Zoralink.9836

I really loved Mario with terrible bosses that throw things you need to avoid…
But it’s somehow light for Gw2.

…What?

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Posted by: Vasham.2408

Vasham.2408

That’s the price you pay for removing the holy trinity. No mechanics, no strategy, nothing but high HP pools and fake difficulty.

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Posted by: Gehenna.3625

Gehenna.3625

A lot of bosses are afk style, but you wouldn’t actually go afk. Some bosses have one hit kills shots as part of their repertoire, but yes generally the bosses in this game are about insane hp and damage.

So what do you need then? Learn to dodge and ress team mates and auto attack usually does the trick for damage. There are a few bosses that require a little more but generally that’s it.

I agree with Vasham, but I want to go a step further. These bosses also make sure that you can win against them no matter which skills or traits you pick. There are a few expections here and there but generally it makes your skill bar and trait choices irrelevant.

This is especially important because the skills are balanced around sPvP, you know, the least played part of the game.

If you want interesting boss fights, I think it would require the whole combat system to be redone. Doubt that will ever happen.

It’s a game forum. The truth is not to be found here.

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Posted by: FourthVariety.5463

FourthVariety.5463

Interesting game mechanics need to be programmed on a per boss basis. High HP are just one value to edit.

Part of it is the lack of trinity. If you have a trinity system, it can be rubber stamped onto every encounter and no matter how boring it is, the encounter retains the trinity mechanics of players being cross-dependent. GW2 does not have this option. While the game has some bosses who have interesting game mechanics, there are far too many to expect a custom programmer’s job be done on every single one of them.

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Posted by: HiddenNick.7206

HiddenNick.7206

Interesting game mechanics need to be programmed on a per boss basis. High HP are just one value to edit.

Part of it is the lack of trinity. If you have a trinity system, it can be rubber stamped onto every encounter and no matter how boring it is, the encounter retains the trinity mechanics of players being cross-dependent. GW2 does not have this option. While the game has some bosses who have interesting game mechanics, there are far too many to expect a custom programmer’s job be done on every single one of them.

Trinity mechanic is only interesting from healers perspective (and tanks in far smaller degree). Others just stand in one spot and hit all their skills as fast as they can… From their perspective it is far less interesting then Gw2 system because they can’t die.

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Posted by: Vasham.2408

Vasham.2408

Interesting game mechanics need to be programmed on a per boss basis. High HP are just one value to edit.

Part of it is the lack of trinity. If you have a trinity system, it can be rubber stamped onto every encounter and no matter how boring it is, the encounter retains the trinity mechanics of players being cross-dependent. GW2 does not have this option. While the game has some bosses who have interesting game mechanics, there are far too many to expect a custom programmer’s job be done on every single one of them.

Trinity mechanic is only interesting from healers perspective (and tanks in far smaller degree). Others just stand in one spot and hit all their skills as fast as they can… From their perspective it is far less interesting then Gw2 system because they can’t die.

Have you ever actually played a real MMO?

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Posted by: HiddenNick.7206

HiddenNick.7206

Interesting game mechanics need to be programmed on a per boss basis. High HP are just one value to edit.

Part of it is the lack of trinity. If you have a trinity system, it can be rubber stamped onto every encounter and no matter how boring it is, the encounter retains the trinity mechanics of players being cross-dependent. GW2 does not have this option. While the game has some bosses who have interesting game mechanics, there are far too many to expect a custom programmer’s job be done on every single one of them.

Trinity mechanic is only interesting from healers perspective (and tanks in far smaller degree). Others just stand in one spot and hit all their skills as fast as they can… From their perspective it is far less interesting then Gw2 system because they can’t die.

Have you ever actually played a real MMO?

What do you mean by “real MMO”?

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Posted by: Rainu.6871

Rainu.6871

Trinity mechanic is only interesting from healers perspective (and tanks in far smaller degree). Others just stand in one spot and hit all their skills as fast as they can… From their perspective it is far less interesting then Gw2 system because they can’t die.

Yup, completely agree. Healers and to some degree tanks are the on,y ones that might have a more involved fight in normal MMOs compared to gw2. There are some good exceptions (e.g. several bosses in SWTOR operations) but for the most part those aren’t tied in to the trinity and could be implemented i gw2 as well. I agree that most bosses in the game atm are very boring but I din’t think lack of the traditional roles has got anything to do with it.

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Posted by: Vasham.2408

Vasham.2408

Interesting game mechanics need to be programmed on a per boss basis. High HP are just one value to edit.

Part of it is the lack of trinity. If you have a trinity system, it can be rubber stamped onto every encounter and no matter how boring it is, the encounter retains the trinity mechanics of players being cross-dependent. GW2 does not have this option. While the game has some bosses who have interesting game mechanics, there are far too many to expect a custom programmer’s job be done on every single one of them.

Trinity mechanic is only interesting from healers perspective (and tanks in far smaller degree). Others just stand in one spot and hit all their skills as fast as they can… From their perspective it is far less interesting then Gw2 system because they can’t die.

Have you ever actually played a real MMO?

What do you mean by “real MMO”?

One with combat that doesn’t consist of mindlessly blowing cooldowns, or one with boss encounters that aren’t just trash mobs with ridiculous health pools, or one with real PVE progression that’s an actual challenge.

You know, one not like Guild Wars 2.

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Posted by: Fiennes.9568

Fiennes.9568

I personally think that world bosses are are easy so that they can be pugged by people with no communication. If you start putting interesting mechanics in to a boss, with things that have to be timed/done at the same time, etceteras, than I can see a lack of communication making that event fail continually.

That said, I’d still like to see more interesting mechanics.