Why do you not WvW?

Why do you not WvW?

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Posted by: SoulstitchMMO.1396

SoulstitchMMO.1396

Full servers, Outmanned Buff in every map.
How is this happening? What is so exciting about grinding cursed shore or dungeons for hours as opposed to WvW?

Asked this in the WvW forums, but it was pointed out that’s not the best place for this question.

Honestly though, why do you not WvW? This game is going to lose it’s wvw population to Planetside2 or some other persistent pvp game, and I want to perhaps shed some light on this problem.

Why are so many people on full servers avoiding wvw?

Co-GM (WvW Commander) Calculated [CC] http://www.calculatedguild.com
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Posted by: Tito.3270

Tito.3270

Because it doesn’t give me joy winning in WvW just because my server has the higher numbers, there is no skill involved and it doesn’t mather how good you play, the more numerous faction is always gonna win. So there is no point in dooing WvW.

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Posted by: Rhyse.8179

Rhyse.8179

I don’t like not being in control. Therefore, I don’t like pvp. There’s not much more to it than that.

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Posted by: Darx.9842

Darx.9842

When I tried it was just two massive zergs ranging eachother. Turned me off.

If I want pvp I’ll do spvp.

And if I want a big battlefield I’ll go play BF3.

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Posted by: someoneinatree.9104

someoneinatree.9104

Not saying this is the case for everybody, but I imagine for many players story-based PvE and Dungeons are more fun than any form of PvP.

It’s simply a matter of personal preference.

SoS: [RED] Crimson Mind

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Posted by: SoulstitchMMO.1396

SoulstitchMMO.1396

Is it the keeping score part? The fact that it has a beginning and an end? That there’s “no point” if you’re going to lose?

What would make you WvW more? How can Anet make WvW more desirable? It’s supposed to be casual friendly, and it appears that WvW participation is dropping with each week.

Co-GM (WvW Commander) Calculated [CC] http://www.calculatedguild.com
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Posted by: drifter.8453

drifter.8453

I use to WvW a lot but when you are in a guild and they want you to defend constatly, instead of earning Karma. Not that I do not mind defending. But if you get steamrolled from trying to defend you are basicly going into WvW to waste coin on repairs constantly, and siege equipment that gets destroyed. It is basicly a faster way to throw coin out the window. Not worth it anymore. Nor the coin wasting.

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Posted by: GregT.4702

GregT.4702

I don’t WvW much because:
(a) Takes forever to run from the spawn point to the action. Too much downtime before I get to have fun.
(b) Things are rarely balanced at the macro level. Too often we either control the entire map or we control none of the map and are penned up at our spawn point. Either way, not fun.
© Things are rarely balanced at the micro level. Either I’m part of a huge zerg and everything’s already dead before I get to it, or I’m on my own and I get hunted and killed by the first enemy to spot me.
(d) I’ve done it already. Same reason I don’t go back and replay the zones I’ve finished much – I’ve seen the content and moved on.
(e) No recognition of personal effort. I pull out my big AoEs and things die – but everyone else was doing the same thing. Was my AoE helpful? Or did I miss entirely? Am I just sitting here being useless? How would I know?
(f) Costs of being relevant are too high. I don’t want to spend my silver buffing outposts or buying siege plans when we’re just going to lose all the terrain again overnight. I have better things to do with that silver that I’ll see the benefit of personally.
(g) The map’s confusing. The shortest path from a spawn point to the action is rarely a straight line – there are cliffs and bridges and water and falling damage and gates and it’s just a pain trying to actually find the battles and take part in them.
(h) PvP players are the worst. They’re exactly the people I’d least choose to hang out with of my own accord.

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Posted by: Praenomen.3245

Praenomen.3245

I don’t WvW much because:
(a) Takes forever to run from the spawn point to the action. Too much downtime before I get to have fun.
(b) Things are rarely balanced at the macro level. Too often we either control the entire map or we control none of the map and are penned up at our spawn point. Either way, not fun.
© Things are rarely balanced at the micro level. Either I’m part of a huge zerg and everything’s already dead before I get to it, or I’m on my own and I get hunted and killed by the first enemy to spot me.
(d) I’ve done it already. Same reason I don’t go back and replay the zones I’ve finished much – I’ve seen the content and moved on.
(e) No recognition of personal effort. I pull out my big AoEs and things die – but everyone else was doing the same thing. Was my AoE helpful? Or did I miss entirely? Am I just sitting here being useless? How would I know?
(f) Costs of being relevant are too high. I don’t want to spend my silver buffing outposts or buying siege plans when we’re just going to lose all the terrain again overnight. I have better things to do with that silver that I’ll see the benefit of personally.
(g) The map’s confusing. The shortest path from a spawn point to the action is rarely a straight line – there are cliffs and bridges and water and falling damage and gates and it’s just a pain trying to actually find the battles and take part in them.
(h) PvP players are the worst. They’re exactly the people I’d least choose to hang out with of my own accord.

Nailed it on every point, for me(Except maybe the last one). This guy gets it.

I like WvW. I was a -huge- advocate and fan of Warhammer Online when it was going strong and WvW in GW2 is as close as any game has gotten to capturing that feeling for me since Warhammer Online, but it honestly feels much less refined for me. If you asked me what my big problem with GW2 WvW is I couldn’t tell you, because there is no big problem. Just far too many small, annoying problems that turns most people I know off from it.

If I could add to that list, I would say I can’t fathom why people spend large amounts of time -and- resources on it, because all it takes is one evening of no one particularly coordinated logging on and everything is gone.

SPVP at least has the rankings and such that give me some form of feeling of achievement even if I lose match after match.

(edited by Praenomen.3245)

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Posted by: Flyfunner.2093

Flyfunner.2093

Because thieves own me because I can’t render them so they’re always invisible to me.

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Posted by: SoulstitchMMO.1396

SoulstitchMMO.1396

What if the cost of upgrading was removed, and the price of siege removed (or changed from costing money?)

Co-GM (WvW Commander) Calculated [CC] http://www.calculatedguild.com
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Posted by: Hawkmoon.5849

Hawkmoon.5849

My answer might differ slightly, because I’ve only had the game for about a week or so.

There’s no direction. To be honest, I stumbled upon the WvW screen and thought, “oh, that- cool. Let’s check it out.” I get ported to an area, and that’s that. I have no idea what’s going on next. Okay, let’s run through one of these Asura Gates and see what happens… 30 seconds later, I’m dead, because I walked into some place (I have no clue where) and ran around aimlessly until I was slaughtered by a small band of players.

There’s no real introduction to WvW. I feel like because I missed the beta for GW2, I’ve somehow missed out on understanding this entire aspect of play. I don’t know what the objectives are, how the score is kept, what the cost is, what the point is.

Maybe I missed something glaringly obvious, but I think that’s the biggest issue for me: If I can’t see the point to doing WvW, then why would I do it?

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Posted by: GregT.4702

GregT.4702

What if the cost of upgrading was removed, and the price of siege removed (or changed from costing money?)

That would be an improvement but (for me) it’s just tinkering around the edges. It’s that time it takes to get to the battle, and then get back to it after you die, that’s the killer.

I realise the time’s there for balance reasons but there should at least be a minigame or something I can do while I’m jogging.

I’d also like to add to my list above:
(i) No closure. There’s no in-game notification of who won the weekly match up – no congratulation mail to players who helped win, no suggestions for improvement to players who sucked. I like this style of play, but I like it in discrete units. It needs either shorter matches so I can stick around till they’re over, or a bigger fanfare when it finishes so I’ll get reminded of what I did to help two days later when I’m off PvEing somewhere.

(edited by GregT.4702)

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Posted by: Latinkuro.9420

Latinkuro.9420

Why are so many people on full servers avoiding wvw?

I got one word for yah mate

culling

other than that zerging, supply camp cap exploit by thieves and permastealth due to culling.

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Posted by: Clark Skinner.4902

Clark Skinner.4902

terrible fps, invisible opponents, stealth spec’d thieves, bad matchups, guilds hopping servers

that and anet not doing anything to improve it

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Posted by: MrsAngelD.6971

MrsAngelD.6971

I don’t understand Why Orr is full of waypoints that can become contested, but none of the important places in WvW have way points? I mean why can’t there be waypoints at each place accessible to you only when your side owns it. It really sucks having to run all over the map.

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Posted by: Wasselin.1235

Wasselin.1235

It’s a lot of running. It’s so annoying trying to get to the commander icon or combat icon, and then getting there and the action is over. Even when I do find a siege or something fun it usually turns out to be me casting meteor shower over and over.

I basically only go there to do my dailies when I need a change of pace and to get the wvwvw kills for the monthly achievement.

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Posted by: Greyfeld.7104

Greyfeld.7104

Is it the keeping score part? The fact that it has a beginning and an end? That there’s “no point” if you’re going to lose?

What would make you WvW more? How can Anet make WvW more desirable? It’s supposed to be casual friendly, and it appears that WvW participation is dropping with each week.

I would play WvW more if they restructured the map in such a way to encourage smaller team play.

As it stands, you basically run around in a huge zerg pack, spam AOES, dodge the bigger red circles, and dog-pile the enemies who are a little too slow it getting back behind their group line. There are no player-versus-player tactics involved, there is no real skill involved. It’s all about who has the most bodies to pile up. This just isn’t fun.

The only “small group” activities on the field are boring. Escort the Dolyak, clear out the centaurs, kill the krait, etc etc. The most fun I ever had in WvW was when I was soloing the krait in the central lake to finish the quaggan event, and somebody from one of the other servers saw we were going to win the event, and came to stop me. That 1v1 underwater battle expanded into 2v2, then 3v3. In the end, there were about ten of us fighting each other and the krait at the same time, trying to win the event, while keeping our enemies from doing so at the same time.

If there were more events that could be done with small groups, and they actually made an impact on the map, we’d see a lot more small-group skirmishes, instead of just three giant zergs running across the map, trying to dog-pile each other to death.

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Posted by: SoulTrain.2157

SoulTrain.2157

i dont like any type of pvp really, but i agree with what alot of you have said. especially the part about when you die you have to walk so far back. when i die i usually say to myself im not walking way back over there and leave back to la for some pve fun. but like i said im not much into pvp anyway so even if they spawned me right back where i died id still find it boring.

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Posted by: Strelok.3051

Strelok.3051

It isn’t fun, and I have zero incentive to actually want to do it anyway.

That, and the sheer hostility of the player base that does WvW has completely turned me off from wanting to do it.

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Posted by: Katreyn.4218

Katreyn.4218

I try to. But my server seems to only do good at WvW late at night/early morning. And either way we lose about every week, except maybe one week out of a month, and usually pretty outnumbered in every case.

That said, the real turnoff for me is how long it takes to get around the maps usually, by the time I get to the combat its either already won or lost >.<; and the cost of dying (aka repair bill), I just don’t like wasting money in a situation where I am obviously going to die a lot, its hard not to expect a lot of deaths in a pvp environment.

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Posted by: DallsBeep.7294

DallsBeep.7294

Problem for me basically lies in the structure of the fight, in that instead of feeling like you are in an endless war with the same enemies, you know you are essentially just in a points based match that leads to one team winning at the end of the round and then a new anonymous enemy being plucked out of nowhere.

I really hate to become one of those people who always bring up DAoC, since they annoy me even as an ex player, but the system there just made me want to fight more. Having a constant enemy created more of an adversarial feeling, as ultimately you would begin to get to know and recognize the people you were fighting. This also helped to deal with many of the issues people have here with Guild Wars, groups are much less likely to gank soloers when their names will be remembered and the community can dish out some kind of punishment (like their own team not helping them in future or something). When people did behave in a way that pissed people off? Great, we all got a pantomime villain, since you would encounter them regularly. A persistent battle would definitely interest me more.

Also on an unrelated note it really felt like the emphasis on points got in the way of fun, most groups are much more interested in empty towers and camps than actual pvp. Technically the better option for winning of course, which is all anyone seemed to care about, but not really for me. Take away the points aspect and people will prioritize having a laugh more than what is more likely to secure victory.

Having said all this, i’ll soon be logging on for some WvWvW, as I will probably for a long time to come, it’s still the best form of mmo pvp out there now.

(edited by DallsBeep.7294)

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Posted by: NoOneShotU.3479

NoOneShotU.3479

I got 30 kills the other night and only saw a few of them. I’m guessing they hadn’t rendered me yet before they ran into my bombs either.

I <3 bombing empty air and getting world invader kills. /sarcasm.

When they fix this I won’t have any more complaints (except a little lag that I can likely fix with lower settings).

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Posted by: Bubbles.1047

Bubbles.1047

For me, it’s all the invisible people.

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Posted by: roguenub.1409

roguenub.1409

My excuse is, I get 2-10 fps in WvW, and people do not draw on my screen until I’m dead.

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Posted by: Humposaurus.5764

Humposaurus.5764

Karma per hour is higher in WvWvW borderlands maps, then it is when farming in Orr. Ofc you need the outmanned buff and a party for raiding supply camps.

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Posted by: Tosha Daydreamer.9251

Tosha Daydreamer.9251

Because I don’t like zerging. I know it is fun in a small, coordinated group, but so far I have not found a fun, small, coordinated group to play with.

will probably get into it later, when my friends reach level 80.

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Posted by: Sprinkles.6748

Sprinkles.6748

Culling, performance, exploits.

Plus, I prefer tPvP much more. I do like WvW, but I feel like I would need to sink all of my GW2 time into it to really make any kind of difference. I’m happy just visiting it every so often.

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Posted by: Mimizu.7340

Mimizu.7340

i prefer pve because npcs dont whine if i dont play with them, or accuse me of hacking if i do.

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Posted by: AsteriskCGY.5931

AsteriskCGY.5931

Don’t need no mo badges.

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Posted by: Paradox.5498

Paradox.5498

Pretty much everything what GregT says. Add to that the annoying Commanders spamming one-word “orders” on the chat:
“Bridge!”
“Ballista!”
“ATTACK!”
and the bad performance of my mediocre PC in WvWvW (especially bad in Eternal Battlegrounds) and I end up enduring WvWvW for 2 nights a month to get the kills for karma and mystic coins but not any more than that.

A lot of ppl complain about Orr being a pain in the behind but WvWvW sucks about a trazillion times as much.

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Posted by: Ailar.7941

Ailar.7941

I don’t WvW much because:
(a) Takes forever to run from the spawn point to the action. Too much downtime before I get to have fun.
(b) Things are rarely balanced at the macro level. Too often we either control the entire map or we control none of the map and are penned up at our spawn point. Either way, not fun.
© Things are rarely balanced at the micro level. Either I’m part of a huge zerg and everything’s already dead before I get to it, or I’m on my own and I get hunted and killed by the first enemy to spot me.
(d) I’ve done it already. Same reason I don’t go back and replay the zones I’ve finished much – I’ve seen the content and moved on.
(e) No recognition of personal effort. I pull out my big AoEs and things die – but everyone else was doing the same thing. Was my AoE helpful? Or did I miss entirely? Am I just sitting here being useless? How would I know?
(f) Costs of being relevant are too high. I don’t want to spend my silver buffing outposts or buying siege plans when we’re just going to lose all the terrain again overnight. I have better things to do with that silver that I’ll see the benefit of personally.
(g) The map’s confusing. The shortest path from a spawn point to the action is rarely a straight line – there are cliffs and bridges and water and falling damage and gates and it’s just a pain trying to actually find the battles and take part in them.
(h) PvP players are the worst. They’re exactly the people I’d least choose to hang out with of my own accord.

Pretty much all this (thx for saving me the time to type a very similar list), with a focus on items a, f and g. The only items I’d modify are

(d) while I haven’t seen it all yet, I spent 3-4 hours in WvW so far, which was enough for me to see that while it’s got the potential to be fun, it’s not my kind of thing in its current incarnation.
(h) I’d rephrase that to “I’ve found that usually the people I’d least choose to hang out with of my own accord are found in PvP”. Slight but important difference.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

I’ve been very disappointed in WvWvW in comparison to GW1 Alliance Battles or WAR’s PvP instances. In Alliance Battles, numbers were/are equal (except for Luxon MM swarms), in WvWvW they never seem to be, and the more numerous server has the orbs, so it’s an uphill battle that you really can only win if your side gets numerical superiority, which isn’t going to happen.

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Posted by: Paradox.5498

Paradox.5498

Ow, also add to the list:

Repair costs are too high. People are taking no risks because they have to pay hefty repair bills to repair their exotics. Last night me and 1 other guy reported a supply camp being under attack by 4 characters. 3 ppl showed up, I assumed to help kill the attackers. But no, those 3 just stood there watching while me and that other guy attacked and got killed. How is 5 versus 4 a risk? I suggest removing repair costs from WvWvW because some ppl will never grow a spine.

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Posted by: vox.5019

vox.5019

  • Culling
  • Repair
  • Rewards

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Posted by: Rozbuska.5263

Rozbuska.5263

I personaly played RvR in WAR for years every day so I love WvW system but what I missing here is some progress thats all.
I mean some like: capture zones, capture main castle, raid capitol city and defeat king or something like that. Here its only endless pointless switching of capture points.

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Posted by: Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713

  • Rewards (50% useless junk, other 50% loot bags with junk)
  • Zerg (2 groups of 100 people running back and forth between 2 forts/keeps shooting ranged weapons is boring)
  • <map> is currently full, would you like to queue up for it?
  • Costs too high (Siege weapons, upgrades, repairs, let alone new armor/weapons)
  • Matching/balance (No matter what happens, next week will be vs the same 2 French worlds again)
  • Giant Grub
IT’S A SWORD. THEY’RE NOT MEANT TO BE SAFE.

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Posted by: LadyRhonwyn.2501

LadyRhonwyn.2501

Pretty much everything what GregT says. Add to that the annoying Commanders spamming one-word “orders” on the chat:
“Bridge!”
“Ballista!”
“ATTACK!”

Yes, it does improve a lot if you have a few competent commanders. It’s actually fun when there are some people who know what they are doing and why they are doing it.

The thing I don’t like about WvW is the fights for those keeps. I find it boring and tedious. If I go in (which isn’t too often), I prefer going for supply posts and the wandering foe instead of “laying siege” to a fortress. The only thing I can hit is that gate and that doesn’t really help….

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Posted by: Fenrir.4915

Fenrir.4915

I don´t play WvW because i find boring as hell.
Mass players vs mass players, zerg fest…
It´s not a real pvp, is just… bleh.
I miss a real and good pvp at this game.

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Posted by: beren.6048

beren.6048

Honestly mostly because I have still lots of stuff to do in PvE and PvP is not THE thing that pulls me to games. I like character building, I like the sims element of GW2. New armors, new weapons etc. and exploration is nice also.

What turns me down from WvW is the fact that you die like nothing and armor repair is costly. But its not a biggy, I mostly didn’t feel like WvW, I do more sPvP. Yes, because sPvP costs me nothing but some time.

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Posted by: Sabo.1485

Sabo.1485

I have enjoyed what WvWvW I’ve done, but I don’t intend to go back anytime soon because it kills my framerate to the point that, if there are a lot of players around, I can’t do anything.

Finnegan Bhaird – Human Mesmer
Tarnished Coast

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Posted by: Denim Samurai.2379

Denim Samurai.2379

Mesmer portals are stupid powerful for WvW. You can literally move an entire server of WvW players to wherever in an instant. With a mesmer at each front you could have your entire server just sit in your home camp wait for them to call an inc and have 190+ people show up in an instant to stomp them and be back to the home camp ready to portal wherever else they’re needed.

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Posted by: monepipi.5160

monepipi.5160

I really wish there is an option to turn off particle effects or something. When I run into the zerg my fps just drops to like 2 and it becomes like microsoft powerpoint.

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Posted by: Ryuujin.8236

Ryuujin.8236

I spent a week hardcore playing WvW and two things grated on me:

1) Zergs were too effective. Far too frequently it was a simple case of “smash the door down with an overwhelming amount of warm bodies”. There wasn’t much strategy involved.

2) The rewards in the end wern’t worth it. After fighting super hard for a week and finally winning it what’s the reward?… oh… there isn’t. You’re just meant to be happy with your repair bills some random greens and a sense of satisfaction.

…so, yeah. I won’t be spending much time in WvW from now on.

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Posted by: Nerelas.8572

Nerelas.8572

Simple for me, it’s not PvP, it’s SvS (Siege vs Siege).

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Posted by: Algreg.3629

Algreg.3629

culling, battles being rigged by server switching that anet promoted for far too long, no real feeling of accomplishments and also long queues – I still like to go to WvW, but whenever I hit a 20 minutes queue, something else comes up in this time and I rather bypass the WvW invite then.

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Posted by: tasaunders.3746

tasaunders.3746

For me, it’s a general lack of interest in PvP in general. I PvP’d heavily in Everquest and WoW; it (PvP) simply no longer brings anything captivating to the table when it comes to gameplay. I find nothing challenging about killing other players enmasse and I honestly could care less about the world bonuses. I may do sPvP or if they do true Guild vs. Guild I may do that but WvW I’m only going to end up doing for map completion. Conversely, I love the heck out of the PvE and am quite content with that.

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Posted by: Quaz.4931

Quaz.4931

Because it is lazy design “lets get a bunch of players in the same map, stick some forts in and let them go”

That many players in a game designed around party’s of 5? Nice one guys.

Framerate drops and no single person contributes a significant amount.

I say bring back GW1 Alliance Battles, 3 teams of 5 v 3 teams of 5 capturing points on an appropriately sized map. If you win you win points for your world. Or some fort aspenwood type gamemode, where one team defends a fort while the other attacks.

I find it weird how they made the above, and they were a step in a really fun and interesting direction. Then try and plug this WvW rubbish.

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Posted by: Noviere.7309

Noviere.7309

I only enter WvW for the monthly, and that is it. I think all of the issues have been covered already… But for me, the main ones are:

Travel times: Getting back into the fight after dying takes forever. I get that it’s necessary in order to make defense possible… but it doesn’t mean it’s fun. Especially when you spend 5 minutes running back, and then die to an invisible swarm and have to do it all over again.

Rewards: I feel I never get rewarded for the time I put into it. This may just be a side effect of me being bad or playing a class that cannot tag enemies fast enough in a zerg.

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Posted by: Windwalker.2047

Windwalker.2047

My PC cant handle more than 20 people on the screen at one time