Gliding and Territories in WvW

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

I am kind of hoping you can drop bomb or something that do not do a lot of dmg but has some effect other then simply dive bombing ppl with the fall trait.

From what i am looking at EB map red has a super advantages of the 3 side green not so much blue looks good too.

blue? i dont see from where :| all the spots on blue side i can reccall where that work can be easilly avoided?

For blue you can go on the “jump” tower on the wall and dive from there. There the cliff side to hit the tower. As well as coming from the top of the keep all though green side can do that too. You maybe able to even get over the wall on the blue side and hit from more then one way over going though the choke in-frond of the keep.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Baldrick.8967

Baldrick.8967

It’s a precursor for bringing the next map to wvw which will be entirely a JP, Super Marios style, mounts enabled.

They hope it will bring the pve JP lovers into wvw…

WvW player. Doing another world completion for my next Legendary. Hater of mini-games.

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Posted by: fishoa.9648

fishoa.9648

Literally nobody asked for this.

Ironically, EotM, where this would actually be useful, won’t get this.

I’m not even surprised.

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

Long before desert BL and s a lark I once ran my warrior with a combo of the snowfall runes and death from above. It was hilarious. There only a few cliffs I could find that were too high to jump from and not survive. More then a few chased after me or QQed as to how I could survive those Jumps at hills while they perished.

(people must of thought I was nuts as I carefully went around all of Alpine BL and jumped off the highest clifs just to see which ones could be safe in the future)

Have you tried this with windfall in dbl yet? hehe

Well windfall when running means you do not get hurt at all and yes it kind of fun to be trying to flip SE camp solo, see 6 bad guys running your way from their spawn and running to jump off that cliffs edge. Unfortunately I only managed to get one to chase me and make that leap in all that time.

What DID hapen to me once was I decided to leap off a very high cliff while windfall on and had the enemy flip a shrine as I was falling.

I might have to try those runes again with Gliders and the fall trait . Imagine a group traited up with those runes and the fall traits dropping in from above as they glide over. It could be fun.

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

Literally nobody asked for this.

Ironically, EotM, where this would actually be useful, won’t get this.

I’m not even surprised.

Why do people keep repeating this when it unequivocally not the case? All you need to do is go back to the Desert BL debate. There was requests to add gliding to it several times over.

There were more then a few threads on the matter with many of those opposed concerned about it being used to Glide over the walls and into keeps and towers , a situation which was addressed in the announcement.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/wuv/Enable-gliding-in-Desert-BL

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/wuv/Need-open-Gliding-at-wvw-ex-home-map

(edited by babazhook.6805)

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Posted by: Offair.2563

Offair.2563

Literally nobody asked for this.

Ironically, EotM, where this would actually be useful, won’t get this.

I’m not even surprised.

Guess you missed the countless of posts demanding to enable gliding when DBL became a thing.

Big Babou, Ranger for life.
Madness Rises [Rise] – Banners Hold.
Don’t argue with idiots, they pull you down their level and own you with experience.

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Posted by: Malernasam.4327

Malernasam.4327

Gliding

Gliding in WvW does not require unlocking gliding through PvE masteries. Instead, you can acquire Gliding by using ability points in the new Heart of Thorns War Gliding Mastery. The War Gliding Mastery is available to those who own Heart of Thorns and allows gliding in territories that your team owns in the Mist War maps: Eternal Battlegrounds, Alpine, and Desert Borderlands. If you enter a territory that you do not own while gliding, you will be kicked from your glider.

We’ve made several map adjustments to the Eternal Battlegrounds, Desert, and Alpine Borderlands maps to better accommodate gliding. Besides map adjustments, we have also replaced Ballista’s fourth skill with an anti-air bolt skill that shoots people out of the air and immobilizes them for a short duration.

It is important to keep in mind that this is a test for gliding in WvW. If we discover with this test that gliding is not appropriate for WvW, we will disable it.

This is such a terrible idea, and only people who don’t really understand WvW are hyped for it. I hope it is disabled soon after launch. May it be even shorter lived than deployable canons, or the OP Dragon Banner, or…just stop adding PvE content to WvW.

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Posted by: Malernasam.4327

Malernasam.4327

Dear anet can you please stop kittening up wvw. People like it just the way it is right now. When you guys look back at the release of the desert bl map. Was that a great succes? No. But u guys kittened up wvw then and this will be the same. Stop putting pve crap into wvw. We the hardcore wvw players dont play pve. So please stop messing up our content. I know for a fact that lost of players will be leaving the game because of these things. They only game back when its back to normaal.

Gliding for wvw is actually going to be super fun, I don’t know how gliding offends you so much, and if someone is running away from you in your territory, they wont exactly be able to glide off, so youll probably have a better chance at catching them than before. Stop crying about something that hasnt even happened yet. xoxo

Gliding offends because certain people didn’t bother to read the whole post before they started typing.

No, I read. I honestly believe that people that go into a WvW map and want to explore it, and glide in it 1) don’t have enough to do in WvW, 2) should get their exploration and pointless mechanic fix in PvE, and 3) should not be driving content in a game mode they clearly don’t understand or appreciate. It’s been true since launch, WvW players feel ignored by Anet, but then any time Anet pays attention this kind of stuff happens…golem rush week, deployable canons, dragon banners. PvE content will never be a plus for someone that really plays WvW.

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Posted by: Malernasam.4327

Malernasam.4327

McKenna please answer this question! Will we be able to glide while in a golem? PLEASE MAKE IT SO!!!!

(e_e)

Attachments:

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Posted by: Pifil.5193

Pifil.5193

Ahhh, I truly feel sorry for the guys in ArenaNet. The complaints they are doing nothing with the mode are nothing compared to the complaints when they try to change it.

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Posted by: Warrior Xsr.1672

Warrior Xsr.1672

Love gliding! Great addition!

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Posted by: choovanski.5462

choovanski.5462

It’s coming to EotM right?

if so OMG

& also. could we get all territories there? that map would be amazing with full gliding. all it would need is npc turrets over keeps.

You will not be able to glide in EotM.

i’m not suprised, but i am disappointed. it’s big opportunity (& beta test) you’re squandering.

EotM is practically built for gliding, & the feature would add a ton to the map. it’s a real pity we won’t get to experience it.

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Posted by: Jumpin Lumpix.6108

Jumpin Lumpix.6108

I think the change is Hilarious and therefore completely necessary. Changing up the game mode is a step in the right direction, and running around wvw all day feels like a running simulator, so I’m glad they are making travel faster.

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Posted by: rpfohr.7048

rpfohr.7048

This is exactly what the game mode needed. This brings more meaning to capture in territories and areas then just putting points on a board. Players will see a more tangible benefits and this will be more engaged in the game mode.

Gives an incentive to the enemy to go out and capture a specific area to prevent them gliding in it should approve too much of a tactical advantage. Overall raising the stakes is great.

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Posted by: Shadelang.3012

Shadelang.3012

Dear anet can you please stop kittening up wvw. People like it just the way it is right now. When you guys look back at the release of the desert bl map. Was that a great succes? No. But u guys kittened up wvw then and this will be the same. Stop putting pve crap into wvw. We the hardcore wvw players dont play pve. So please stop messing up our content. I know for a fact that lost of players will be leaving the game because of these things. They only game back when its back to normaal.

Gliding for wvw is actually going to be super fun, I don’t know how gliding offends you so much, and if someone is running away from you in your territory, they wont exactly be able to glide off, so youll probably have a better chance at catching them than before. Stop crying about something that hasnt even happened yet. xoxo

Gliding offends because certain people didn’t bother to read the whole post before they started typing.

No, I read. I honestly believe that people that go into a WvW map and want to explore it, and glide in it 1) don’t have enough to do in WvW, 2) should get their exploration and pointless mechanic fix in PvE, and 3) should not be driving content in a game mode they clearly don’t understand or appreciate. It’s been true since launch, WvW players feel ignored by Anet, but then any time Anet pays attention this kind of stuff happens…golem rush week, deployable canons, dragon banners. PvE content will never be a plus for someone that really plays WvW.

Then tell me. What are they doing thats going to harm WvW with this? Is it a massive be all change? No. But its new and fairly fun.

And many of the arguments against it involve things that were addressed. Showing that people didn’t read the part concerning that or they just assumed it wouldn’t do anything to solve the problem (I.E. They decided it was wrong before even trying it)

As for “Why are you spending time on this when you should be fixing the balance of the game and improve server stability” that im seeing from some people.

As others have said it might not be the WvW teams job to do this directly. It may be there roll to provide feedback to the people whos job it IS. And I am sure they do that. But screaming at the WvW team for daring to do something ELSE seems kinda sad. Especially when they are trying to add something that might be fun.

As far as balance and server lag goes.

Arguing about balance right now is pointless. Were about to have 9 elite specs thrown into the mix. And theres supposedly a heavy balance patch coming up. Rumor has it that this balance patch may even include a nerf to the ever terrifying condi reaper. Potentially curbing some of the condition spam currently going on..

Honestly if anything things like the Spellbreaker might actually help. As it looks like it would be cutting down on the number of calculations for boons in zerg fights significantly. Which its been theorized that boon and condi calculations are a big part of what induces server lag.

But I obviously can’t say for certain. Im not an expert in the field nor would I claim to be. Just saying that maybe we should see how the balance pass and incoming elite specs change things before giving in to THAT argument.

The only other argument ive seen that sounds reasonable at first is the “Use of recources on kitten that doesn’t really matter”

On this I can’t really say. It depends on how they use the territory system from now on for example.

My current reaction to the gliding is a solid Head Nod and me thinking “Cool thatl be nice to try out” and moving on.

I mean honestly guys the fact that they are willing to try this is COOL. And I want to see what clever commanders/teams can do with this on the various maps.

Ill say one thing. Chasing that mesmer with snowfall runes who trololol off the side of a fall you can’t follow him down will be nice. Though the thought of getting magic bulleted on the way down is terrifying.

Ghost Yak

(edited by Shadelang.3012)

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Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

McKenna please answer this question! Will we be able to glide while in a golem? PLEASE MAKE IT SO!!!!

(e_e)

Taking things too seriously again?

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

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Posted by: Malernasam.4327

Malernasam.4327

Shadelang.3012:

On this I can’t really say. It depends on how they use the territory system from now on for example.

My current reaction to the gliding is a solid Head Nod and me thinking “Cool thatl be nice to try out” and moving on.

I mean honestly guys the fact that they are willing to try this is COOL. And I want to see what clever commanders/teams can do with this on the various maps.

Ill say one thing. Chasing that mesmer with snowfall runes who trololol off the side of a fall you can’t follow him down will be nice. Though the thought of getting magic bulleted on the way down is terrifying.

Seen my attitude about this described as “anti fun” elsewhere on this thread. And that response, and yours, show we are not even speaking the same language when it comes to the game mode. You say it will be nice to chase a troll Mesmer…why? People saying it will be nice to shake up the game mode and fly around instead of doing the same thing also leave me with the same question…why? My fun in WvW has nothing to do with anything you guys are thinking will be cool, interesting, nice, or fun, and all of those things you are advocating for you have in PvE. There is a massive world in which you can glide, and chase people who roll off cliffs with snowfall runes…why does that need to be in the WvW environment? What is it adding for people who like the game mode? Because it seems to be adding things for people who wish they were doing PvE…so, go do PvE.

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Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

Dear anet can you please stop kittening up wvw. People like it just the way it is right now. When you guys look back at the release of the desert bl map. Was that a great succes? No. But u guys kittened up wvw then and this will be the same. Stop putting pve crap into wvw. We the hardcore wvw players dont play pve. So please stop messing up our content. I know for a fact that lost of players will be leaving the game because of these things. They only game back when its back to normaal.

Gliding for wvw is actually going to be super fun, I don’t know how gliding offends you so much, and if someone is running away from you in your territory, they wont exactly be able to glide off, so youll probably have a better chance at catching them than before. Stop crying about something that hasnt even happened yet. xoxo

Gliding offends because certain people didn’t bother to read the whole post before they started typing.

No, I read. I honestly believe that people that go into a WvW map and want to explore it, and glide in it 1) don’t have enough to do in WvW, 2) should get their exploration and pointless mechanic fix in PvE, and 3) should not be driving content in a game mode they clearly don’t understand or appreciate. It’s been true since launch, WvW players feel ignored by Anet, but then any time Anet pays attention this kind of stuff happens…golem rush week, deployable canons, dragon banners. PvE content will never be a plus for someone that really plays WvW.

Actually, I think you’re the one out of touch. You’re trying to make an argument about gliding somehow not belonging in a PvP setting (“it is PvE crap”) without being really convincing. There’s nothing in the flying mechanic itself that is incompatible with PvP. Gliding offers another way of utilizing terrain to set up tactics. It is really odd a veteran WvW player can’t see that. Explain ArcheAge flying PvP battles please.

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

(edited by Chaba.5410)

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Posted by: Shadelang.3012

Shadelang.3012

Shadelang.3012:

On this I can’t really say. It depends on how they use the territory system from now on for example.

My current reaction to the gliding is a solid Head Nod and me thinking “Cool thatl be nice to try out” and moving on.

I mean honestly guys the fact that they are willing to try this is COOL. And I want to see what clever commanders/teams can do with this on the various maps.

Ill say one thing. Chasing that mesmer with snowfall runes who trololol off the side of a fall you can’t follow him down will be nice. Though the thought of getting magic bulleted on the way down is terrifying.

Seen my attitude about this described as “anti fun” elsewhere on this thread. And that response, and yours, show we are not even speaking the same language when it comes to the game mode. You say it will be nice to chase a troll Mesmer…why? People saying it will be nice to shake up the game mode and fly around instead of doing the same thing also leave me with the same question…why? My fun in WvW has nothing to do with anything you guys are thinking will be cool, interesting, nice, or fun, and all of those things you are advocating for you have in PvE. There is a massive world in which you can glide, and chase people who roll off cliffs with snowfall runes…why does that need to be in the WvW environment? What is it adding for people who like the game mode? Because it seems to be adding things for people who wish they were doing PvE…so, go do PvE.

We are speaking the same language. The thing is gliding does nothing to inhibit your fun. At all. And it has a small chance of enhancing it.

Do you think people are gonna be running around doing nothing but gliding when people are hitting garrison? Not likely. Atleast no more than already exists.

Im a PvX player. But I spend most of my time in PvP. The next chunk is in WvW. And a VERY small amount of my time is in PvE. usually a fractal run here and there. Or when a new story mode comes out.

As for what its adding? New ways to defend some objectives for one. Lets look at garrison. Its currently a common tactic to build arrow carts above the lord room. But when the enemy force starts to push up there you can get shafted pretty hard if they make it.

If your force up there is getting pushed by a larger force. They “before” could jump to the floor below. But the other force could just keep pushing. Now those 4-5 people on top can glide off likely all the way to the inner wall or even to some parts of outer in order to escape and then regrp with there commander. As it is its normal for those 4-5 people to die.

Lets look at red keep in ebg next. It is in a position to facilitate fast movement through gliding between the keep and some of the side towers. Say ogre-watch assuming they own those towers. It makes TAKING those towers more difficult true. But a ballista sitting between the tower and the lower cliff can use the new 4 skill to kill incoming defenders. It creates another thing to watch out for.

SMC If you know a large force is going to push into inner shortly you can glide off the third floor in order to flank in behind the force. Repair the gate behind them and destroy the siege before they realize its happening. Yes this could bed one before. But this again offers another option.

Im not saying your anti-fun. Obviously your not your here talking on a forum about a video game. If you didn’t want to have fun you wouldn’t BE here. Im just saying the two point of views aren’t mutually exclusive.

I am CERTAIN you can think of an interesting way to use this feature to your advantage. If you want to. But if you don’t thats fine too. Thats how opinions ARE.

Try it and if you decide you actively hate it after a couple weeks then I hope to see you here on the forums stating your opinion clearly as well as putting forth what you consider a FUN alternative would be for them to work on. Something that fits your vision of wvw. Hell when you do send me a message and ill make sure to look and leave my own opinion for you to consider/dismiss at your leisure.

We could play the “Why is this fun” game all day. The truth is if you have decided flat out that it won’t be fun there is nothing I can do to convince you except state what I would have fun doing with this tool. There is no reasonable way to force someone else to see something as “fun” as the concept of fun as arbitrary and varies wildly from person to person.

Even as a PvPer I consider myself a wvwlder. I am in there for 3+ hours 5 days a week with a reasonably organized guild. So Im not just talking from no experience either. Nor am I a non wvwlder trying to ruin the game mode by bringing loads of PvE into it.

I enjoy wvw. And I want to enjoy it more. And to me, this is an interesting way of doing that.

Ghost Yak

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Posted by: HazyDaisy.4107

HazyDaisy.4107

I’m wondering about the territory portion of this change, does it involve reinstating the DBL barriers and perhaps adding them to ABL to define these territories? If so, it should be interesting to retry those obstacles after so long, but if not, what else would define a territory border?

Sorrows Furnace
[HaHa] Hazardous Hallucination

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Posted by: ThunderMiller.7685

ThunderMiller.7685

I think anything that adds new/more tactics can only be good for WvW. Seems cool and the devs are basically saying if it does not/is broken they will pull it so why not give it a try?

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Posted by: MithranArkanere.8957

MithranArkanere.8957

Literally nobody asked for this.

Ironically, EotM, where this would actually be useful, won’t get this.

I’m not even surprised.

That kind of bugs me. Edge of the Mits could really benefit from several strategically placed jump pads and leylines, enabled by taking certain objectives, and available only to those who control them.

SUGGEST-A-TRON says:
PAY—ONCE—UNLOCKS—ARE—ALWAYS—BETTER.
No exceptions!

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Posted by: SnowMochi.7602

SnowMochi.7602

I’m gonna adopt a wait-and-see attitude until I’ve tried it. For all I know, it might be fun. I often find myself trying to glide from frighteningly places in WvW only to get reminded – fatally – that there is no gliding in WvW.

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Posted by: Malernasam.4327

Malernasam.4327

We are speaking the same language. The thing is gliding does nothing to inhibit your fun. At all. And it has a small chance of enhancing it…

Im a PvX player. But I spend most of my time in PvP. The next chunk is in WvW. And a VERY small amount of my time is in PvE. usually a fractal run here and there. Or when a new story mode comes out.

As for what its adding? New ways to defend some objectives for one. Lets look at garrison. Its currently a common tactic to build arrow carts above the lord room. But when the enemy force starts to push up there you can get shafted pretty hard if they make it.

If your force up there is getting pushed by a larger force. They “before” could jump to the floor below. But the other force could just keep pushing. Now those 4-5 people on top can glide off likely all the way to the inner wall or even to some parts of outer in order to escape and then regrp with there commander. As it is its normal for those 4-5 people to die.

I am CERTAIN you can think of an interesting way to use this feature to your advantage. If you want to. But if you don’t thats fine too. Thats how opinions ARE.

Try it and if you decide you actively hate it after a couple weeks then I hope to see you here on the forums stating your opinion clearly as well as putting forth what you consider a FUN alternative would be for them to work on. Something that fits your vision of wvw. Hell when you do send me a message and ill make sure to look and leave my own opinion for you to consider/dismiss at your leisure.

We could play the “Why is this fun” game all day. The truth is if you have decided flat out that it won’t be fun there is nothing I can do to convince you except state what I would have fun doing with this tool. There is no reasonable way to force someone else to see something as “fun” as the concept of fun as arbitrary and varies wildly from person to person.

Even as a PvPer I consider myself a wvwlder. I am in there for 3+ hours 5 days a week with a reasonably organized guild. So Im not just talking from no experience either. Nor am I a non wvwlder trying to ruin the game mode by bringing loads of PvE into it.

I enjoy wvw. And I want to enjoy it more. And to me, this is an interesting way of doing that.

I shortened your quote, not to cherry pick it, but just to find the right demonstrations that we are certainly NOT speaking the same language. Gliding in WvW has no chance of enhancing my fun. Strangely, though you speak about doing PvP and being in an organized guild, almost everything you described disproportionately affects the PvE components of WvW (defending objectives). Where is any mention of what this will do for players learning builds, and rotations? How about positioning with commander? How to play backline? Anything? Because if the answer is that this does nothing for that, then we don’t need it. And no, I am not talking about gliding off to regroup with commander.

Almost every addition during past year or two has been PvE elements…the air shrine buff so you don’t take falling damage when you jump, or whatever, is a great example. I use it because it’s there…if tomorrow Anet took that away, it would do NOTHING to my game.

You know what changes were made that I thought were pretty brilliant? Capping how many people could rally off of a down. Stability changes that ended the hammer train as we knew it. Those were tweaks to battle mechanics directly related to making fights be better decided by skill.

And I do not PvP, by the way. I am sure I am terrible at PvP. What I like about WvW is that it is PvP in a PvE environment. Taking or defending an objective is a means of getting a fight, as a group. That is the game mode I complain is being ruined when the changes made are about siege and objectives and…gliding.

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Posted by: HazyDaisy.4107

HazyDaisy.4107

It’ll be nice to be able to spend extra points on a new skill. This is something we asked for btw.

If it all flops, it’ll be hard for people to re-adjust to no gliding, I guarantee it, and it’ll probably weaken the population even more. But if it does flop, I would hope they don’t trash other key elements mentioned in this update, like the ability reset vendor.

Opinions are going to be mixed, we learned this with deployable cannons, repair hammers etc. I kind of hope this doesn’t have a poll, because while polls can provide valuable feedback, they are also easily manipulated by subsets that are dead set against something before even really giving it a chance.

Sorrows Furnace
[HaHa] Hazardous Hallucination

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Posted by: Shadelang.3012

Shadelang.3012

I shortened your quote, not to cherry pick it, but just to find the right demonstrations that we are certainly NOT speaking the same language. Gliding in WvW has no chance of enhancing my fun. Strangely, though you speak about doing PvP and being in an organized guild, almost everything you described disproportionately affects the PvE components of WvW (defending objectives). Where is any mention of what this will do for players learning builds, and rotations? How about positioning with commander? How to play backline? Anything? Because if the answer is that this does nothing for that, then we don’t need it. And no, I am not talking about gliding off to regroup with commander.

Almost every addition during past year or two has been PvE elements…the air shrine buff so you don’t take falling damage when you jump, or whatever, is a great example. I use it because it’s there…if tomorrow Anet took that away, it would do NOTHING to my game.

You know what changes were made that I thought were pretty brilliant? Capping how many people could rally off of a down. Stability changes that ended the hammer train as we knew it. Those were tweaks to battle mechanics directly related to making fights be better decided by skill.

And I do not PvP, by the way. I am sure I am terrible at PvP. What I like about WvW is that it is PvP in a PvE environment. Taking or defending an objective is a means of getting a fight, as a group. That is the game mode I complain is being ruined when the changes made are about siege and objectives and…gliding.

Alright. I can see a bit more where you are coming from. I suppose I still don’t see why your upset that they are adding gliding. They aren’t taking away anything that you have enjoyed. There adding something that someone other than you may enjoy sure. But that may be the thing that convinces people to try wvw. I know one person who constantly gets annoyed when he goes to glide and it just isn’t there for him. Its become an integral part of his skill set.

As for what this will do for people learning builds and rotations? It won’t. But that isn’t arena nets job is it? Its not there responsibility to force players onto specific builds or rolls. We the community decide what is meta and isn’t. And if we want people to play the way we decide its up to us to convince them to. (Note i said convince not FORCE…screaming at people to get off x class or on x build is how you get people to LEAVE wvw not join it)

You say everything I talk about refers to pve elements. I disagree. A mechanic isn’t inherently pve or pvp…sorry. Its how its implemented and how the playerbase uses it.

Lets use the lords. The best example of PvE in WvW. But they AREN’T PvE. A fight in a lord room rotates around the lord. It adds to the dynamic and pressure of the fight. It gives both sides an objective to fight for.

As for positioning with a commander. Hell yes you have to take gliding into account. Commanders are going to have to remember that they are running with people who may not have HoT. So they need to take routes that are accessible to both. However people with HoT can cross terrain more easily. Making it easier to get BACK to the commander.

Gliding will play a roll in scouting. Especially in DBL. Speading up travel across the map and making it easier for someone to follow an enemy zerg in territory they own depending on the map.

that isn’t PvE. Thats a core aspect of WvW. The windfall buff? You had better BELIEVE that is WvW based. Ive seen smaller forces push larger forces ENTIRELY because they know if it starts to go bad they can retreat off that cliff. Otherwise they would have run back to air keep and started setting up siege. Does it work out for them? Not always but if gives them something to TRY. And the knowledge that htey have windfall and the enemy doesn’t makes them much more willing to push along that cliff edge.

WvW Isn’t just PvP in a PvE environment. Its both combined. Aspects of both merged into a new whole. Taking/Defending objectives can be used to get fights yes but they are also GOALS if you want your server to win or lose a matchup.

I agree the stab changes and rally changes were good. And I would like to see more changes. But those are the kind of changes that can only be made RARELY. Because they cause huge sweeping changes in how the game mode is made. Not all of which are for the better. They had to rebuff stability later due to how changes had affected things. Allowing hammer trains to reform because those trains were what allowed groups to function in an organized fashion. Hammer trains give both sides something to orient around. Where at the height of the pirate ship meta it was simply two clouds swinging around eachother until one lost enough people they bailed.

You say the game mode is being ruined by changes made about siege, objectives, and gliding.

I say thats your opinion man…and I also say that its a very narrow minded one. Siege and objectives for example are core aspects of WvW. They are what your fights orient around. Like it or not. Believe me I HATE grinding into a keep filled to the brim with ACs. But gods below when we do and we hunt down and crush every single AC and there operator into paste before slaughtering there zerg it is SATISFYING. It feels GOOD and makes that stress worth it.

As for gliding. How in the hell is gliding going to ruin your game mode. You still havn’t answered that. What is gliding going to do that is going to damage WvW so badly.

Ghost Yak

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Posted by: Malernasam.4327

Malernasam.4327

that isn’t PvE. Thats a core aspect of WvW. The windfall buff? You had better BELIEVE that is WvW based. Ive seen smaller forces push larger forces ENTIRELY because they know if it starts to go bad they can retreat off that cliff. Otherwise they would have run back to air keep and started setting up siege. Does it work out for them? Not always but if gives them something to TRY. And the knowledge that htey have windfall and the enemy doesn’t makes them much more willing to push along that cliff edge.

WvW Isn’t just PvP in a PvE environment. Its both combined. Aspects of both merged into a new whole. Taking/Defending objectives can be used to get fights yes but they are also GOALS if you want your server to win or lose a matchup.

I agree the stab changes and rally changes were good. And I would like to see more changes. But those are the kind of changes that can only be made RARELY. Because they cause huge sweeping changes in how the game mode is made. Not all of which are for the better. They had to rebuff stability later due to how changes had affected things. Allowing hammer trains to reform because those trains were what allowed groups to function in an organized fashion. Hammer trains give both sides something to orient around. Where at the height of the pirate ship meta it was simply two clouds swinging around eachother until one lost enough people they bailed.

You say the game mode is being ruined by changes made about siege, objectives, and gliding.

I say thats your opinion man…and I also say that its a very narrow minded one. Siege and objectives for example are core aspects of WvW. They are what your fights orient around. Like it or not. Believe me I HATE grinding into a keep filled to the brim with ACs. But gods below when we do and we hunt down and crush every single AC and there operator into paste before slaughtering there zerg it is SATISFYING. It feels GOOD and makes that stress worth it.

As for gliding. How in the hell is gliding going to ruin your game mode. You still havn’t answered that. What is gliding going to do that is going to damage WvW so badly.

O.K. let’s try this. How about I get to play Anet developer for a day, and I end the megaserver, and from now on if you are on a different server I can kill you in Queensdale, in Orr, in Auric Basin, etc., as I could in the PvP or WvW environment. So, like, you might be rallying to fight Balthazar or some unchained champion in Siren’s Landing or whatever, and my guildies and I come along and kill you. I mean, you have the choice to also run with guildies for protection, or to avoid us, and ignore us…move servers, jump to a different map, etc. You are full of options! The other elements of your game (champions, events, etc.) are still there, I took nothing away from you. Are you happy with this change?

If the answer is “yes,” for whatever reason, then we are speaking the same language…we just have different worldviews. If the answer is “no,” for whatever reason, then we weren’t even speaking the same language.

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Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

How about I get to play Anet developer for a day, and I end the megaserver, and from now on if you are on a different server I can kill you in Queensdale, in Orr, in Auric Basin, etc., as I could in the PvP or WvW environment. So, like, you might be rallying to fight Balthazar or some unchained champion in Siren’s Landing or whatever, and my guildies and I come along and kill you. I mean, you have the choice to also run with guildies for protection, or to avoid us, and ignore us…move servers, jump to a different map, etc. You are full of options! The other elements of your game (champions, events, etc.) are still there, I took nothing away from you. Are you happy with this change?

If the answer is “yes,” for whatever reason, then we are speaking the same language…we just have different worldviews.

How does this support your assertion that gliding is going to ruin WvW? It sounds the opposite if what you are saying: that you would enjoy PvP inside PvE maps with even more so-called PvE stuffs. This just goes to my point that all those “PvE” things allow PvP players to utilize the terrain for setting up tactics. Gliding is really no different.

Real PvP problems arise when there is a lack of opponents and balance. If gliding is not balanced for PvP, that will be the issue with it. You can see the care being given to balance by the change to ballista skills and also that hard CC will provide a counter.

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

(edited by Chaba.5410)

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Posted by: The Guild Keeper.5421

The Guild Keeper.5421

I think this is going to be too fun actually. Now let me ask this. Will we be able to fight from the air? I mean if your changing ballista’s to being able to shoot us out of the sky then we should also be able to counter. Say for example, how about since Engineers use bombs can they drop them from the sky. Be too fun to have a squadron (squad) of engi’s fly over and bomb the crap out of an enemy tower or other encampment. Or better yet to soften up a large Zerg so a small group on the ground can go in and finish them off. Just some thoughts that came to mind as I read this. But it could be interesting and I think a lot of fun.

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Posted by: reddie.5861

reddie.5861

i didnt really read all post but look, for example Red EBG keep > orge watch deffending.

so now red players can simply glide from keep to orge to deffend? so theres noway for attackers to stop em if they didnt break tower open yet? while deffenders can get to tower without any harm?
i find it lame cus often (our server) we slap doors just to lure them out to have a fight with no intention to take anything..

i dont really want gliding its crap it has no use in WvW, even if the above wont be possible i simply dont see any use of it in WvW

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

i didnt really read all post but look, for example Red EBG keep > orge watch deffending.

so now red players can simply glide from keep to orge to deffend? so theres noway for attackers to stop em if they didnt break tower open yet? while deffenders can get to tower without any harm?
i find it lame cus often (our server) we slap doors just to lure them out to have a fight with no intention to take anything..

i dont really want gliding its crap it has no use in WvW, even if the above wont be possible i simply dont see any use of it in WvW

Red is typically for the lowest ranked server. I have no problem with them getting this tiny defense bonus, if it does indeed work that way and you don’t hit the territory border and fall down.

In fact I’d get great joy from watching someone hit the invisible territory wall and splat I certainly hope it works this way if the two territories have different owners.

L’enfer, c’est les autres

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Posted by: HazyDaisy.4107

HazyDaisy.4107

that isn’t PvE. Thats a core aspect of WvW. The windfall buff? You had better BELIEVE that is WvW based. Ive seen smaller forces push larger forces ENTIRELY because they know if it starts to go bad they can retreat off that cliff. Otherwise they would have run back to air keep and started setting up siege. Does it work out for them? Not always but if gives them something to TRY. And the knowledge that htey have windfall and the enemy doesn’t makes them much more willing to push along that cliff edge.

WvW Isn’t just PvP in a PvE environment. Its both combined. Aspects of both merged into a new whole. Taking/Defending objectives can be used to get fights yes but they are also GOALS if you want your server to win or lose a matchup.

I agree the stab changes and rally changes were good. And I would like to see more changes. But those are the kind of changes that can only be made RARELY. Because they cause huge sweeping changes in how the game mode is made. Not all of which are for the better. They had to rebuff stability later due to how changes had affected things. Allowing hammer trains to reform because those trains were what allowed groups to function in an organized fashion. Hammer trains give both sides something to orient around. Where at the height of the pirate ship meta it was simply two clouds swinging around eachother until one lost enough people they bailed.

You say the game mode is being ruined by changes made about siege, objectives, and gliding.

I say thats your opinion man…and I also say that its a very narrow minded one. Siege and objectives for example are core aspects of WvW. They are what your fights orient around. Like it or not. Believe me I HATE grinding into a keep filled to the brim with ACs. But gods below when we do and we hunt down and crush every single AC and there operator into paste before slaughtering there zerg it is SATISFYING. It feels GOOD and makes that stress worth it.

As for gliding. How in the hell is gliding going to ruin your game mode. You still havn’t answered that. What is gliding going to do that is going to damage WvW so badly.

O.K. let’s try this. How about I get to play Anet developer for a day, and I end the megaserver, and from now on if you are on a different server I can kill you in Queensdale, in Orr, in Auric Basin, etc., as I could in the PvP or WvW environment. So, like, you might be rallying to fight Balthazar or some unchained champion in Siren’s Landing or whatever, and my guildies and I come along and kill you. I mean, you have the choice to also run with guildies for protection, or to avoid us, and ignore us…move servers, jump to a different map, etc. You are full of options! The other elements of your game (champions, events, etc.) are still there, I took nothing away from you. Are you happy with this change?

If the answer is “yes,” for whatever reason, then we are speaking the same language…we just have different worldviews. If the answer is “no,” for whatever reason, then we weren’t even speaking the same language.

So your idea of perfect is you and a few guildies ganging up on 1 person trying to kill an NPC?

If the idea that this person will now be able to disengage and fly away taking their bag with them, ruins the mode for you, then I have to ask, how do you think the one person that’s been in those scenarios over the last couple of years feels?

Sorrows Furnace
[HaHa] Hazardous Hallucination

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Posted by: Malernasam.4327

Malernasam.4327

How about I get to play Anet developer for a day, and I end the megaserver, and from now on if you are on a different server I can kill you in Queensdale, in Orr, in Auric Basin, etc., as I could in the PvP or WvW environment. So, like, you might be rallying to fight Balthazar or some unchained champion in Siren’s Landing or whatever, and my guildies and I come along and kill you. I mean, you have the choice to also run with guildies for protection, or to avoid us, and ignore us…move servers, jump to a different map, etc. You are full of options! The other elements of your game (champions, events, etc.) are still there, I took nothing away from you. Are you happy with this change?

If the answer is “yes,” for whatever reason, then we are speaking the same language…we just have different worldviews.

How does this support your assertion that gliding is going to ruin WvW? It sounds the opposite if what you are saying: that you would enjoy PvP inside PvE maps with even more so-called PvE stuffs. This just goes to my point that all those “PvE” things allow PvP players to utilize the terrain for setting up tactics. Gliding is really no different.

Real PvP problems arise when there is a lack of opponents and balance. If gliding is not balanced for PvP, that will be the issue with it. You can see the care being given to balance by the change to ballista skills and also that hard CC will provide a counter.

Chaba, dude…stop. You think my hypothetical was advocacy? I don’t want anything I said in that post to happen. I was asking the person I was talking to to envision what would happen to his quality of PvE play if PvP or WvW elements snuck in. Just, go build a golem or something.

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Posted by: Nikkinella.8254

Nikkinella.8254

It could end up being something horrible, it could open up new strategies in fighting. I guess we wont know until it happenes. Made me think of something though. Upgraded towers and keeps have cannons on them. Why not also make cannons able to shoot upwards? Or maybe also add some SAM sites that can only shoot upwards that can take out people flying?

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Posted by: Lord Trejgon.2809

Lord Trejgon.2809

PvE components of WvW (defending objectives).
[…]
Where is any mention of what this will do for players learning builds, and rotations?
[…]
How about positioning with commander? How to play backline?

picked up these specific part because that’s pretty much essence of your post over here that I wish to adress.

1. Defending objectives in WvW IS NOT “PvE” aspect of the mode.
2. Builds and rotations are NOT “PvP” aspect of the WvW
3. stacking up huge lot of people ontop of commander is not that hard, and is not ONLY aspect of the PvP in WvW

you need to understand here that WvW also refered in game as “war in the mists” is the game mode revolving around factions fighting over a land – attacking/defending of towers, keeps, camps are not “Player versus Environment” aspect it’s the core point of the mode – and is even PvE’ish only when you attack undefended objective

also builds and rotations have just as much to do with PvP as it does with PvE – and ironically high-end PvE puts much more emphasis on this one, than any sort of encounter you will ever get in WvW environment – to quote a freidn from WvW centric guild I used to be “stack up 25 might and everyone gets dps-y” [note: quoted statement was made some time ago when main zerg meta was bringing up alof of bunker builds with AoEs, stack up might onto them and then run throught enemy group while throwing all the AoE’s in their general direction [with ocasional blasting off water fields to keep your bunkers alive]

Speaking of zergs: I am deeply sorry for bursting your bouble here – but zerg clashing is not the only type of PvP encounters that occurs within WvW – there is alot of people roaming, hampering supply lines and taking up objectives behind the line to overally reduce scores while zergs are busy clashing.
To visualise how important it is I will name here things that were happening today when I was playing WvW – on one of borderlands we have kept the bay and for most – emphasis on “most” of time at least one camp attached to said keep – and due to activity of hostile zerg along this keep, there was constant shortage of supplies – to repair walls, set-up siege engines in place of of destroyed ones – and for quite big chunk of time during that one supplies from the camps was just barely arriving in enought numbers to fill into those needs – and it would probably all go much smoother for said keep defence if not for small groups – 4-5 enemies oftenly harassing the camp I was at – and since more often than not defending force in the immediate area was inferior in stranght-numbers to harassing ones in quite a few ocasions all I could do was to keep their attention for long enought for dolyak to reach the keep [not the very long route it was] – and actually once our zerglings have showed in force, the only way I was gratefull for their presence was because they have pushed enemy zerglings and took the battle to their garri, allowing us a breathing room to fully repair and resupply the keep. other than that, the best thay were doing to my effort in that evening was lag generation… which isn’t really a merit at all.

And yes I was engaging just as much into PvP aspects on WvW as anyone else on said borderland at a time, and my effort was just as needed for score of our servers as of those zerglings .

PS. and I can promise you that there would be much more fun for everyone if those zerglings instead of amassing 90% of map population into one place for one “major battle” have split up into task forces, each responsible for their own piece of region – be it capturing and defending it or harassing instead. and the odds are that such gameplay meta of WvW would also be less stressfull for the servers

“-Shield is meant to be broken!”
“-and on this occasion I keep mine plate armors”
discussion about offensive/deffensive playstyles

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Posted by: Siska.8102

Siska.8102

I can’t believe this is where anet decided to concentrate their efforts. It seems obvious to me they don’t want to make improvements to wvw that will bring back the people that play this game mode, they’re trying to appeal to the pve crowd.

I’ve basically quit playing but popped on for some saturday afternoon entertainment and found though I was playing in T4 the lag is ridiculous, as usual, condi’s, well nothing has changed about that disaster, class balance…yadda yadda. And yet Anet is trying to get me to pre-purchase PoF? Ya not likely.

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Posted by: Kovu.7560

Kovu.7560

To prevent falling to your death, the capture bar for any given objective should be visible throughout the objective’s territory, not just directly around the objective itself. This will provide an opportunity for people to land if something is being flipped.
Just a thought.

~ Kovu

Fort Aspenwood, Sea of Sorrows, Maguuma.
Charr Ranger, Necromancer, Thief

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Posted by: ThunderPanda.1872

ThunderPanda.1872

Not sure if asked before, but how big will the territories be? Will there be neutral territories, so that any teams can glide in it at the same time?

Send me 1000g and I will stop trolling WvW forum.
I have a dream – Our Anet Senpai will make WvW Great Again!
WvW Forum is more competitive than WvW

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Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

How about I get to play Anet developer for a day, and I end the megaserver, and from now on if you are on a different server I can kill you in Queensdale, in Orr, in Auric Basin, etc., as I could in the PvP or WvW environment. So, like, you might be rallying to fight Balthazar or some unchained champion in Siren’s Landing or whatever, and my guildies and I come along and kill you. I mean, you have the choice to also run with guildies for protection, or to avoid us, and ignore us…move servers, jump to a different map, etc. You are full of options! The other elements of your game (champions, events, etc.) are still there, I took nothing away from you. Are you happy with this change?

If the answer is “yes,” for whatever reason, then we are speaking the same language…we just have different worldviews.

How does this support your assertion that gliding is going to ruin WvW? It sounds the opposite if what you are saying: that you would enjoy PvP inside PvE maps with even more so-called PvE stuffs. This just goes to my point that all those “PvE” things allow PvP players to utilize the terrain for setting up tactics. Gliding is really no different.

Real PvP problems arise when there is a lack of opponents and balance. If gliding is not balanced for PvP, that will be the issue with it. You can see the care being given to balance by the change to ballista skills and also that hard CC will provide a counter.

Chaba, dude…stop. You think my hypothetical was advocacy? I don’t want anything I said in that post to happen. I was asking the person I was talking to to envision what would happen to his quality of PvE play if PvP or WvW elements snuck in. Just, go build a golem or something.

Your argument so far is that gliding is “PvE” but you haven’t been able to define exactly how it qualifies as PvE. You ignored my ArcheAge example where PvP and gliding co-exist already. Gliding is a movement skill and nothing more. You don’t need gliding to perform exploration in a PvE map. You haven’t addressed either the concept of gliding as another form of utilizing terrain for setting up a tactical play from earlier posts by myself and others. I think you believe PvP is performed on a flat play area and that terrain doesn’t matter. That’s not WvW.

Also, golems are one tool used in WvW to generate fights in and around objectives, as per a “PPT for fights” strategy. The old epic three-way fights in SMC or a good ol’ garrison lord’s room bash would not have been possible without such tools. If you are looking for PvP without the need to utilize such a strategy, WvW may not be for you. You could try sPvP or guild hall GvGs.

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

(edited by Chaba.5410)

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

How about I get to play Anet developer for a day, and I end the megaserver, and from now on if you are on a different server I can kill you in Queensdale, in Orr, in Auric Basin, etc., as I could in the PvP or WvW environment. So, like, you might be rallying to fight Balthazar or some unchained champion in Siren’s Landing or whatever, and my guildies and I come along and kill you. I mean, you have the choice to also run with guildies for protection, or to avoid us, and ignore us…move servers, jump to a different map, etc. You are full of options! The other elements of your game (champions, events, etc.) are still there, I took nothing away from you. Are you happy with this change?

If the answer is “yes,” for whatever reason, then we are speaking the same language…we just have different worldviews.

How does this support your assertion that gliding is going to ruin WvW? It sounds the opposite if what you are saying: that you would enjoy PvP inside PvE maps with even more so-called PvE stuffs. This just goes to my point that all those “PvE” things allow PvP players to utilize the terrain for setting up tactics. Gliding is really no different.

Real PvP problems arise when there is a lack of opponents and balance. If gliding is not balanced for PvP, that will be the issue with it. You can see the care being given to balance by the change to ballista skills and also that hard CC will provide a counter.

Chaba, dude…stop. You think my hypothetical was advocacy? I don’t want anything I said in that post to happen. I was asking the person I was talking to to envision what would happen to his quality of PvE play if PvP or WvW elements snuck in. Just, go build a golem or something.

Your argument so far is that gliding is “PvE” but you haven’t been able to define exactly how it qualifies as PvE. You ignored my ArcheAge example where PvP and gliding co-exist already. Gliding is a movement skill and nothing more. You don’t need gliding to perform exploration in a PvE map. You haven’t addressed either the concept of gliding as another form of utilizing terrain for setting up a tactical play from earlier posts by myself and others. I think you believe PvP is performed on a flat play area and that terrain doesn’t matter. That’s not WvW.

Also, golems are one tool used in WvW to generate fights in and around objectives, as per a “PPT for fights” strategy. The old epic three-way fights in SMC or a good ol’ garrison lord’s room bash would not have been possible without such tools. If you are looking for PvP without the need to utilize such a strategy, WvW may not be for you. You could try sPvP or guild hall GvGs.

Ya i head that from some one else gliding is pve i realty do not understand that point of view. Its like saying moving or jumping is pve even though they are used during pvp. So its very confusing. Its all different types of movement there more to pvp then running into the other team spamming skills till the other team is dead.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

How about I get to play Anet developer for a day, and I end the megaserver, and from now on if you are on a different server I can kill you in Queensdale, in Orr, in Auric Basin, etc., as I could in the PvP or WvW environment. So, like, you might be rallying to fight Balthazar or some unchained champion in Siren’s Landing or whatever, and my guildies and I come along and kill you. I mean, you have the choice to also run with guildies for protection, or to avoid us, and ignore us…move servers, jump to a different map, etc. You are full of options! The other elements of your game (champions, events, etc.) are still there, I took nothing away from you. Are you happy with this change?

If the answer is “yes,” for whatever reason, then we are speaking the same language…we just have different worldviews.

How does this support your assertion that gliding is going to ruin WvW? It sounds the opposite if what you are saying: that you would enjoy PvP inside PvE maps with even more so-called PvE stuffs. This just goes to my point that all those “PvE” things allow PvP players to utilize the terrain for setting up tactics. Gliding is really no different.

Real PvP problems arise when there is a lack of opponents and balance. If gliding is not balanced for PvP, that will be the issue with it. You can see the care being given to balance by the change to ballista skills and also that hard CC will provide a counter.

Chaba, dude…stop. You think my hypothetical was advocacy? I don’t want anything I said in that post to happen. I was asking the person I was talking to to envision what would happen to his quality of PvE play if PvP or WvW elements snuck in. Just, go build a golem or something.

Your argument so far is that gliding is “PvE” but you haven’t been able to define exactly how it qualifies as PvE. You ignored my ArcheAge example where PvP and gliding co-exist already. Gliding is a movement skill and nothing more. You don’t need gliding to perform exploration in a PvE map. You haven’t addressed either the concept of gliding as another form of utilizing terrain for setting up a tactical play from earlier posts by myself and others. I think you believe PvP is performed on a flat play area and that terrain doesn’t matter. That’s not WvW.

Also, golems are one tool used in WvW to generate fights in and around objectives, as per a “PPT for fights” strategy. The old epic three-way fights in SMC or a good ol’ garrison lord’s room bash would not have been possible without such tools. If you are looking for PvP without the need to utilize such a strategy, WvW may not be for you. You could try sPvP or guild hall GvGs.

Ya i head that from some one else gliding is pve i realty do not understand that point of view. Its like saying moving or jumping is pve even though they are used during pvp. So its very confusing. Its all different types of movement there more to pvp then running into the other team spamming skills till the other team is dead.

And the other movement skills in this game also have counters for balance from a PvP aspect. You can apply several different types of conditions to affect running/walking along the ground such as chill and immobilize. Dodges with evade frames are limited by endurance. Gliding will be counterable by hard CC, territory control, and the new ballista shot.

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

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Posted by: Kovu.7560

Kovu.7560

That not all. If anything you’re at a disadvantage while in the air because ranged opposition can deal damage to you while you aren’t able to attack in return, or defend yourself. There won’t be any updrafts to save you.
Flying won’t give you some inherent advantage, it will just allow you to traverse the maps more quickly in certain situations. And even that’s situational.

I do agree you shouldn’t be able to begin gliding whilst in combat in wvw.

~ Kovu

Fort Aspenwood, Sea of Sorrows, Maguuma.
Charr Ranger, Necromancer, Thief

(edited by Kovu.7560)

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Posted by: Lord Trejgon.2809

Lord Trejgon.2809

That not all. If anything you’re at a disadvantage while in the air because ranged opposition can deal damage to you while you aren’t able to attack in return, or defend yourself. There won’t be any updrafts to save you.
Flying won’t give you some inherent advantage, it will just allow you to traverse the maps more quickly in certain situations. And even that’s situational.

I do agree you shouldn’t be able to begin gliding whilst in combat in wvw.

~ Kovu

didn’t they mention something about bloodstone fen-like gliding skills for Wargliding?

not that it changes alot – for most of current WvW maps it will probably just serve as a sort of opener for defending zerg to initiate running throught assaulting zerg…. at least for large scale engagements – but then for small scale I can’t see it being anyhow game breaking either – even with ability to initiate gliding while in combat already thiefs and mesmers are running away much faster than glider would hope in such territories….

“-Shield is meant to be broken!”
“-and on this occasion I keep mine plate armors”
discussion about offensive/deffensive playstyles

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Posted by: Swamurabi.7890

Swamurabi.7890

There’s been some comments about how gliding would work in the current maps. When you look at it there are very few spots where gliding is an advantage. Remember, gliding ONLY helps defenders.

ABL:

Hills spawn to hills….no benefit. Hills to SE camp could be a benefit IF the glide time is faster than the ground speed.
Does swiftness affect glide speed?
Can you apply swiftness in mid-glide?
If no then it might be that ground speed is faster than glide speed. As for defense at hills, is there anywhere where a force can glide to get an advantage? When is gliding to a lower location than your attacker give you an advantage? I can see gliding from the south part of the cata wall down by the bridge to trap attackers at S gate but you’d be at a disadvantage going up the stairs. Cata wall? No. N gate would be same as S gate but you would be seen earlier.

Bay. There is only one glide path for defenders. From S gate bay towards S inner or Mid inner and that’s all.

For the home side of BL there are a couple of advantages. You can glide to the north towers from spawn side exits. You can bypass the switchbacks to get to the NE and NW camps. Garri to hills you can glide instead of jumping into the water. Garri to Bay, not much help because the ground path is not different than the air path.

For EBG, Red side gets the bonus. Overlook to OW, OW to Vel. That’s it. Overlook to Anz is faster gliding down from overlook wall, bypassing the water. The hill between overlook and Anz offers the ability to get inside anz, but wouldn’t it be faster to bypass the hill?

EBG Blue….again, if you wanted to take the time to climb up to the highest spot to glide, wouldn’t it be faster using the ground method? The only spot gliding might be used is the path from blue keep to QL, where you wouldn’t have to be careful jumping down right before QL.

EBG Green…useless. I mean, you could jump from Jerri to keep or Jerri towards Klovan, but wouldn’t it be faster by ground?

DBL:

Towers..mostly useless except after capping you might save a second or two by gliding out.

Air spawn to air keep really helps to glide over the chasm. I really hate to have to go sideways to get there. After that Air to NE tower or NE camp isn’t helped much and it’s also not much help going from air to SE camp.

Fire spawn to fire keep isn’t going to be faster by gliding. Anyone who goes up top to get to fire keep is wasting time. However, bypassing fire keep and gliding from up top towards NW camp and NW keep will be helped by gliding.

DBL home to garri, gliding might help get to the keep portals but not by much.

Remember also, the maps are changing, we’re all going to have to relearn the maps.

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Posted by: Korgov.7645

Korgov.7645

There’s been some comments about how gliding would work in the current maps. When you look at it there are very few spots where gliding is an advantage. Remember, gliding ONLY helps defenders.
<snip>
Remember also, the maps are changing, we’re all going to have to relearn the maps.

Good analysis, Swamurabi.

Adding one: In DBL air keep defenders can combine Windfall with gliding to deal devastating damage on enemies while not suffering the 1 second self-stun. A defender can easily wipe 200 health from upto 5 enemies below making it trivial to finish them off.

Oh and the maps have already (partly) changed. Mesmer Blink skill fails with No valid path to target errors in more locations now. There is something wrong with ANet’s version control that seems to leak test branch changes to the live branch.

Sulkshine – Mesmer
This won’t hurt [Much]
Ring of Fire

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Posted by: Sykper.6583

Sykper.6583

Just to further add, while gliding adds a defensive benefit, in the situations it can be used to move faster wouldn’t that be good for any side to get back into the fray?

I would like to think people who enjoy fighting would encourage any aspects that improve mobility, and gliding under these circumstances and with some drawbacks such as the hard CC almost seems like a decent pro for WvW.

Besides, although people can say Archeage was garbage, trust me when I say it wasn’t because of the gliding in PvP. It was very smooth there, mixing between mobility skills and engaging from a cliff and watching out for any other reinforcements, open world PvP was pretty decent (and unfair at many times).

Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”

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Posted by: edora chicazzdovecasto.3546

edora chicazzdovecasto.3546

come on… i hope this madness will ends in 2or 3 days…
u’re adding kittenous machanic in a game mode that have JUST 1 tactical component…. the territory usage….

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

Reflecting upon this,

It could be considered insulting to the competitive community that the new expansion contains no WvW or PvP content at all, and that the only new WvW feature announced for WvW is something taken out of the previous expansion…

I mean, whatever Anet want’s it’s their business, but it’s not going to convince me, someone who was part of the exiled GvG community, to come back to a game and buy an expansion just to get the elite spec of my main class.

You need to do WAY more still. Starting with a serious player and guild ranking system and complete merging of all maps and servers.

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Posted by: ugrakarma.9416

ugrakarma.9416

I like the territory concept, its used on old rts game like Empire Earth 2. The Glid is just embellishment. ….. The Glid is just an ornament for the player base formed by bouncy and colorful dancers, i despise it.

Fun fact: I suggested territories long, long ago to fix an issue in the game – outmanned. Rather than having global outmanned, it would be local and the map split into like 15 “zones of influence” around objectives. That way 50v50 could fight at bay and not be outmanned, while 5v25 could fight at hills and be outmanned.

Anet done stole my idea! Lol.

And they will be enabled to do a cool looking match history, with log in this style: “battle of xxxterritory 20 × 30 winner: red side; commanders: xxxcommander; casualties: red: 15 dead;”.

It would be a small prize for commanders who do a great job, and I say another option: to download this history, to be saved, this history would be reset every match or skirmish, to avoid problems of performace.

In matter of software performance, will not cost so much, it is totally server side, if they implement the triggers correctly.

If developers take a look at old and new RTS (especially Hearts of Iron 4), they’ll be able to catch lots of cool ideas with low cost performance.

(edited by ugrakarma.9416)

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Reflecting upon this,

It could be considered insulting to the competitive community that the new expansion contains no WvW or PvP content at all, and that the only new WvW feature announced for WvW is something taken out of the previous expansion…

I mean, whatever Anet want’s it’s their business, but it’s not going to convince me, someone who was part of the exiled GvG community, to come back to a game and buy an expansion just to get the elite spec of my main class.

You need to do WAY more still. Starting with a serious player and guild ranking system and complete merging of all maps and servers.

You do realise tha locking wvw gamemodes maps or diff kinds of food and armor behind an exoac would split the playerbase right?

Look at ESO they have the rvr settup in the base game and for the only for of competitive spvp you need to buy their “Chapter”.

They moght not be massive updates but anet is providing then for free to all players so the players base wont be split between the locked bihind the various expacs content.