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Posted by: kappa.2036

kappa.2036

I think many of you have already tried to figure out how the meta will be after the PoF’s release.
After testing the new specializations in WvW during the demo, I want to share my thoughts with you:

  • The new meta will be Firebrand – Herald – Scourge. I’m going to explain why.

Firebrand
I found the class a little “clunky” at first, but after understanding what tomes did, I realized that the firebrand is essentially a guardian who can use 15 extra skills. With tomes we can have damage, conditions, cc, cures, boons, each of these things AOE. This spec doesn’t suffer much boon corruptions since it can reapply boons really fast (See Unflinching Charge, 4 seconds of stability and swiftness no cooldown), which makes it perfect against an heavy condi-corrupt boon meta. The beautiful thing of the firebrand is that it maintains the typical support of the normal guardian, so beyond the tomes we will keep foundamental skills like “stand your ground”, purging flames, the support of the staff and the cc’s of the hammer or greatsword. I really enjoyed this specialization because it keeps the guardian’s fundamental role in zerg but at the same time increases its complexity.

Herald
I don’t think Kalla Scorchrazor will bring something interesting in wvw, although it’s still too early to say. Anyway, I believe that the mix of support and damage that the herald brings to the melee party will remain unsurpassed. Glint boonspam and Mallyx resistance mixed with firebrand support will create a very solid combination in melee parties.

Scourge
Many have already mentioned the power of scourge in zerg, I have personally tried it … and i can confirm it. The first reason why the scourge is better than necro/reaper is because besides the damage it can also support through barriers. The second reason is that the scourge never goes into death shroud, so other classes can heal him better. The third reason is … well, you can imagine what can happen inside a Stonemist lord room full of shades, marks and wells that corrupt boons and apply conditions every second. The scourge is the direct counter of the two classes I mentioned earlier, but i think anet will nerf the damage of the spec making it in line with his primary role which is support. In any case, I believe that a celestial build will be able to offer everything, from damage to conditions to support. Meta for sure.

  • BARRIERS > HEALS
    In my opinion, the barrier mechanic is stronger than the healing mehcanic. Why? Because barriers will protect our healthpool keeping it intact, while healing actually works if we have already took damage. Scourge will be so appreciated.
  • Spellbreaker will become more popular. Ele/Tempest will be less mandatory.

Spellbreaker
What to say, Winds of Disenchantment is formidable. Only this elite skill can push the class not to the level of the other 3 I mentioned, but almost. This spec can also strip a lot of boons, and finally warrior has another role from just doing damage.

Tempest Auramancer
Although I think the class will still be a strong choice, I think it will become less popular. Weaver does not seem to support better than tempest, so I think the main role of the elementalist will remain spamming auras, protection and heals. Nothing special considering how strong is the combination beetween firebrand support and scourge barriers. It will still be a solid choice.

  • A sub-meta will arise.
    So far I have spoken about 3 classes + 2 others that will be good, but..what about others? Every other class will cap camps or scout towers? I don’t think so.
    Most of the time, we can see a party full of rangers,thieves, mesmers and engies in the bottom of the squad.
    Soulbeast will be able to offer stability, resistance, condi-immunity and other boons, which can be combined very well with chrono boonshare. I can’t even imagine how much damage deadeyes and holosmiths will be able to pump out when full of boons like that. Will they be able to climb the meta this time? Probably not, but they are about to become much more effective and a lot more useful than you think.

And you? What do you think? How the meta will change with Path of Fire? What you would like to see? How the current roles will transform? Keep the thread constructive bois and girls

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Posted by: CrimeMaker.8612

CrimeMaker.8612

Its literally just going to be more condi. The meta everyone in WvW is tired of isnt going away because anet isnt choosing to nerf condis beside keep giving them buffs and give every class more and more condi…

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

Scourge will be the bulk of the class played. No one will run strip and will try to run min boons to better play with scourge and counter the other teams scourges. There will be a preamion on classes who can support with out boons with auras and super speed. Reaper and core necro will make up the power dmg side of zergs and scourge will be every thing else. You will see a few tempest in there for aura / healing support / super speed. You will see some “fire brians” for there agiese heals and condi clear as well as stab. There will still be driver classes. I am not sure how much you will see rev spam residence after the update.

Boons are bad after the scourge ships.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Trajan.4953

Trajan.4953

Melee is going to be too strong with Spellbreaker so it will be pirate ship again, only more deadly on engage.

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Posted by: Taobella.6597

Taobella.6597

if meta fall in to heavy scourge it get counter by heavy deadeye.

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

Its literally just going to be more condi. The meta everyone in WvW is tired of isnt going away because anet isnt choosing to nerf condis beside keep giving them buffs and give every class more and more condi…

But will it really?

90% of the current meta condi scourge – pun intented – come from dc reapers. If lots of corrupts on the scourge mean its “stronger” in the general then we’re gonna see alot less direct condis the more popular the scourge is. The zerg meta would shift toward less boon heavy builds and more raw power builds.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

if meta fall in to heavy scourge it get counter by heavy deadeye.

There a lot of anty projectile in the game. Deadeye more likely to kill them self then a scourge lol. Even necro of all classes has an anty projectile. Even if you get one scourge down the other scourge can rez them though Transfusion reazing and pulling the downed person to the main group. You do not seem to get how unstoppable and snowball like having more scourges and necro in wvw.

Its literally just going to be more condi. The meta everyone in WvW is tired of isnt going away because anet isnt choosing to nerf condis beside keep giving them buffs and give every class more and more condi…

But will it really?

90% of the current meta condi scourge – pun intented – come from dc reapers. If lots of corrupts on the scourge mean its “stronger” in the general then we’re gonna see alot less direct condis the more popular the scourge is. The zerg meta would shift toward less boon heavy builds and more raw power builds.

This is the problem every thing gives boons even if you do not want them to. Scoruge has the ability to convit boons into torment so all the swiftness becomes torment not cripal (all though its torment and cripal). There is no raw power in gw2 any more. There never realy was boons on every skill many runes sigl even food to a point. Very classes viability is purely due to the boons they have. At what point do you start to rage at ppl for using there skills giving you boons even though they are not with your group in wvw because boon sharing is a very uncontrollable thing out side of very tight groups. What do you do with the pugs who put boons on you. Your setting your self up and the game for boons to be torlling tools like a friendly fire system would be used. All the worst because ppl will be helping you with there boons but harming you with there boons. Its a complete shift in game phoficsly to the point of killing wvw.

If i want to be a viable tempest healer what i tend to play and will be able to a point to be more helpfull then harm. I have to give up a lot of effects tempest has build in.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAodn0XCVYiFYCOYCcYiFNAbIAMAOgEhgMwFwtvOYTsA-TVRWABxpHAg9HCU5n1KBXS9HSB43ML-w

Is the best i can come up with no aura boons no swap boons no passive boons you cant use a staff or wh becuse it puts out boons. You cant use fire overload at all and there a big risk when you do use overload that the stab you get (becuse the other 2 chose give out too many boons to your team and will kill them) ontop of swiftness and protection becomes major liability. Tell me how other classes fair with out getting any type of boon effects on there builds can you even do it?!

LOOK at meta builds atm how would you even start to mod them to be boonless. How would these classes even be viable with out these boons. Do you have any ideal what your saying and asking?

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

(edited by Jski.6180)

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Posted by: Rangerdeity.5847

Rangerdeity.5847

if meta fall in to heavy scourge it get counter by heavy deadeye.

Deadeyes will be so under appreciated because of how bad a bad one is. a good deadeye will find an eliminate that single zerker ele thats nuking the world because once that ele goes down your team can push like the enemy team doesnt exist.

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Posted by: Ravezaar.4951

Ravezaar.4951

Spellbreaker will dominate WvW Meta (u just wait and see) the Boon denial is gonna mess up alot of plays that are currently used.

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Posted by: Caedmon.6798

Caedmon.6798

Spellbreaker will dominate WvW Meta (u just wait and see) the Boon denial is gonna mess up alot of plays that are currently used.

I hope it,but i doubt it .I think most people will keep on rolling other classses regardless.But i do see huge potentional with the elite being properly used.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

Spellbreaker will dominate WvW Meta (u just wait and see) the Boon denial is gonna mess up alot of plays that are currently used.

As things stand spellbreaker going to get in the way more then help. Boon strip makes scorges crouption for there own team. You can say the same for mez strip. In a way scorges is a better spellbreaker then the spellbreaker.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
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Posted by: Scamander.5147

Scamander.5147

Herald
I don’t think Kalla Scorchrazor will bring something interesting in wvw, although it’s still too early to say. Anyway, I believe that the mix of support and damage that the herald brings to the melee party will remain unsurpassed. Glint boonspam and Mallyx resistance mixed with firebrand support will create a very solid combination in melee parties.

Why would anyone use Glint / Mallyx instead of Jalis / Mallyx in WvW? Is something changing that I do not know about?

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Posted by: NemesiS.6749

NemesiS.6749

Sadly scourge seem to be too powerful for zergs, more condi meta and boon stripping. Spellbreaker and Scourge seem to have a secure place in the meta, firebrand also as support, like he said it can apply boons fast denying maybe boon stripping a little. Other than those the rest wont be anything special, soulbeast would be an upgrade since the pet wont die with aoe now but still is not enough to make rangers useful, they will still be hated and kicked out of groups. Renegade seems bad, at least the legend i dont think will see much place, maybe the traitline will be used for the shortbow and more condi but with mallyx/Jalis or maybe shiro. I suppose we have to wait and see, one thing is certain, condi is going to still be king, probably lot better than it is now.

IMO they need to give power gear some defense, upgrade it so it match gear like dire, trailblazer which can do lot of damage while been defensive. With power you need precision, ferocity and power to do damage leaving you too squishy. No idea but there needs to be some changes how condis behave or are deal with

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Posted by: QuantumCat.9051

QuantumCat.9051

Herald
I don’t think Kalla Scorchrazor will bring something interesting in wvw, although it’s still too early to say. Anyway, I believe that the mix of support and damage that the herald brings to the melee party will remain unsurpassed. Glint boonspam and Mallyx resistance mixed with firebrand support will create a very solid combination in melee parties.

Why would anyone use Glint / Mallyx instead of Jalis / Mallyx in WvW? Is something changing that I do not know about?

Glint gives you many more offensive options, better DPS, some defense, and an amazing heal. Jalis’ defensive capabilities are decent but very situational, and the offense nearly non-existent when it counts.

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Posted by: Tongku.5326

Tongku.5326

For sustain, Ventari revs will also be very good. Their heals are powerful, consistant, don’t rely on boons (traits pending) thus limiting corruption liability, fast and easy to execute no water fields + finishers required, and some of them can be executed while stunned or disabled.

Both flavors, power and condi are going to be OK. The power heals are more powerful and overall more support focused while the condi is more of a hybrid.

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Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

Glint gives you many more offensive options, better DPS, some defense, and an amazing heal. Jalis’ defensive capabilities are decent but very situational, and the offense nearly non-existent when it counts.

jalis elite is better then every glint skill combined. its not situational. use it on every push, survive, get bags.

anyway whats with scourge hype? aren’t the shades stationary? how is that going to help?

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Posted by: Scamander.5147

Scamander.5147

Glint gives you many more offensive options, better DPS, some defense, and an amazing heal. Jalis’ defensive capabilities are decent but very situational, and the offense nearly non-existent when it counts.

That is a pretty odd thing to say tbh. How the heck is 50% less dmg for your party that can have a really high uptime situational?

How is pulsing stability field situational?

A heal that gives retal and clears conditions?

The only thing that is useful from glint for WvW is the facet that gives boon duration which you can get without taking the stance.

All the boons that Glint gives can be given reliably by other means.

So please, once again I would like to know what changes are being made to Glint to make it worth using in WvW over Jalis?

(edited by Scamander.5147)

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Posted by: Digikid.7230

Digikid.7230

Honestly for zergs it seems like only scourge/spellbreaker/ possibly firebrand will be used over their other specs, you’ll still see stuff like healing tempests and herald. The main thing is scourge/spellbreaker bring a new level of boonhate to the game, which might mean a return to pirateship meta.

Some guy on a bunch of servers, mostly Mag
Former top 50 spvp engi main.

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Posted by: kappa.2036

kappa.2036

@Scamander
I think it depends a lot on your group’s composition, total numbers, and anyway, both Jalis and Glint are strong options, they just offer different things. I forgot to mention it.

(edited by kappa.2036)

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Scourge + Soulbeast + Ventari rev. Too much corruption for guardians and major unblockable attack/burst uptime from SB/Soul Marks will shred them to pieces and will create way too dangerous of a ranged game to push a melee train effectively with Spellbreaker due to the boon hate + condition + poke. Power soulbeast can generate a lot of poke in what will definitely become be a pirate ship meta, and I don’t think the condition build will be as good because the Scourge will mostly be condi which means free transfers onto high cooldowns. Ventari rev is just strong as a backline healer and support if barriers do indeed drop.

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Posted by: Scamander.5147

Scamander.5147

@Scamander
I think it depends a lot on your group’s composition, total numbers, and anyway, both Jalis and Glint are strong options, they just offer different things. I forgot to mention it.

I suppose if you have a group in your squad with 5 rev’s for some reason in it there would be merit in one of them running Glint. Jalis is brokenly good, but meh, to each their own.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQJASmnfNWNSuJrJRJl/ksjygS4S5QJorcrkFNFSdG34HtFIANwegLshA-T1SBQBmRJ4VU6lRlBA4BAQJ1funmANcEAm4FAYf7PsgDBAe0BEAAB4m3MbezAn38m38m38QKgMXpB-w

If anyone here’s only source for builds for Rev is Meta Battle please try this instead. It is 100% better than the Meta Battle ones and on the top tier WvW servers that website is considered a bad joke that has gone too far.

I promise I am not trying to sound like an ass but if you want the best potential from your builds there are no options, just optimal.

But run Glint if you like it of course, or Shiro or Ventari or even Kalla, I aint your boss, you can be a great asset to your team with a lot of builds.

(edited by Scamander.5147)

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Posted by: Ravezaar.4951

Ravezaar.4951

Spellbreaker will dominate WvW Meta (u just wait and see) the Boon denial is gonna mess up alot of plays that are currently used.

As things stand spellbreaker going to get in the way more then help. Boon strip makes scorges crouption for there own team. You can say the same for mez strip. In a way scorges is a better spellbreaker then the spellbreaker.

NO just NO, but we both will have proof soon. Also conversion and complete denial is 2 very diffrent things.

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Posted by: Ragnarox.9601

Ragnarox.9601

Firebrand? Haha. Srry but long cds and big casting times are bad for wvw especially in blob fights and skill lag. It is good on paper with so many skills but in reality after my testing in wvw It is worse than base blob guardian in all ways.

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Posted by: Scamander.5147

Scamander.5147

Firebrand? Haha. Srry but long cds and big casting times are bad for wvw especially in blob fights and skill lag. It is good on paper with so many skills but in reality after my testing in wvw It is worse than base blob guardian in all ways.

Base Guard too stronk. And I am not just memeing it is actually so good in WvW that for every 5 people in squad we try to have 2 base guardians. I see people choosing Firebrand for the flavour the way you see the occasional Dragon Hunter but they will just not compare.

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Posted by: Ragnarox.9601

Ragnarox.9601

Firebrand? Haha. Srry but long cds and big casting times are bad for wvw especially in blob fights and skill lag. It is good on paper with so many skills but in reality after my testing in wvw It is worse than base blob guardian in all ways.

Base Guard too stronk. And I am not just memeing it is actually so good in WvW that for every 5 people in squad we try to have 2 base guardians. I see people choosing Firebrand for the flavour the way you see the occasional Dragon Hunter but they will just not compare.

Why dont we have DH tanks in wvw blobs also, cause f2,f3 double cds and no instants compared to base guards. Thats why firebrand wont be even considered in blob fights, they have all that is no needed in those squads, big casting times and big cds plus aditional tome book ammo.

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

I can see a small number of Firebrands being desired, but definitely not replacing the bulk of Guardians. Especially if the mantra targeting gets changed to something useful from the tiny cones.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

Spellbreaker will dominate WvW Meta (u just wait and see) the Boon denial is gonna mess up alot of plays that are currently used.

As things stand spellbreaker going to get in the way more then help. Boon strip makes scorges crouption for there own team. You can say the same for mez strip. In a way scorges is a better spellbreaker then the spellbreaker.

NO just NO, but we both will have proof soon. Also conversion and complete denial is 2 very diffrent things.

So a lot of scorge power is going to come from the other person having boons well for its condi dmg. If the other person has no boons then its going to cut back a lot of what a scorge can do. A spellbreaker makes sure the other person has no boons so there is nothing for the scorge to convent into a condi. Its a way to keep the condi out put from scorge balanced if every thing in the game dose not give out aoe boons but it dose. There is the problem with scorge that going to happen in wvw.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
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Posted by: AikijinX.6258

AikijinX.6258

Scourge will be meta, enough said.

Maguuma
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Posted by: Reaper Alim.4176

Reaper Alim.4176

The ultimate WvW META is when things start going rough and you are full. Just coordinate a mass hibernation. ANet will then open your already full server. Then you can just win dued to flatout having double or even triple the numbers of any other server.

Blackgate has proven this META to be absolute. ANet just needs to do away with the full server statues and give every server the opportunity to stack like Blackgate did and is.

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Posted by: Infusion.7149

Infusion.7149

I don’t feel firebrand will be mandatory.

I feel many will experiment with scourge + spellbreaker. After 3 months (one fiscal quarter) , expect skill balance changes.

Scourge & Spellbreaker : in a boon heavy meta they will be staples
—- Spellbreaker’s Dispelling Force is inherent , with hammer or offhand mace there is much potential along with combos in lightning fields
—- All the Scourge’s shade abilities provide party support

Firebrand : unless you are running condis with axe I don’t see it being very different since there’s no ranged condi weapon; it would be a tough choice over DH or honor guardian

Mirage : dodge turned into Mirage cloak makes it more or less unusable without teleports such as blink ; Chronos’ alacrity is still strong and so is Gravity Well

Renegade : without fixes to the summons, it won’t be amazing but for Mallyx legend builds that want shortbow for ranged damage it could be an option instead of power hammer

Weaver : unless it gets major buffs I think it will likely be too much attunement swapping to get the proper skillbar , Unravel hexes is interesting but the rest of the specialization doesn’t really wow me

Deadeye : lowered mobility for rifle users so it will likely be for defending structures / scouting keeps . The deadeye marks may be used with regular thief weapons

Holosmith : decent exceed utilities but unlikely to be a staple and viability depends on if rifle / pistol and kits are tweaked to work with heat

Soulbeast : not too sure on this

(edited by Infusion.7149)

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Posted by: QuantumCat.9051

QuantumCat.9051

@Scamander
I think it depends a lot on your group’s composition, total numbers, and anyway, both Jalis and Glint are strong options, they just offer different things. I forgot to mention it.

I suppose if you have a group in your squad with 5 rev’s for some reason in it there would be merit in one of them running Glint. Jalis is brokenly good, but meh, to each their own.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQJASmnfNWNSuJrJRJl/ksjygS4S5QJorcrkFNFSdG34HtFIANwegLshA-T1SBQBmRJ4VU6lRlBA4BAQJ1funmANcEAm4FAYf7PsgDBAe0BEAAB4m3MbezAn38m38m38QKgMXpB-w

If anyone here’s only source for builds for Rev is Meta Battle please try this instead. It is 100% better than the Meta Battle ones and on the top tier WvW servers that website is considered a bad joke that has gone too far.

I promise I am not trying to sound like an ass but if you want the best potential from your builds there are no options, just optimal.

But run Glint if you like it of course, or Shiro or Ventari or even Kalla, I aint your boss, you can be a great asset to your team with a lot of builds.

My guess is your guild runs very different party comps. We use glint on engage to provide: Superspeed, and AOE Knockback, Blind, Chill, Vulnerability, Weakness, and Burn. The Rev then pulses Infuse Light for a 3 sec full heal and switches to Mallyx for BE and PA. Lots of offense and damage mitigation. Honestly the boons from Glint are secondary as any Rev build can provide that to a degree.

The Dwarf elite is great but doesn’t stop condition and control effects, so the 50% reduction isn’t such a huge thing. Road is generally a useless source of stab in our parties, hammers are only useful for cleaning up after the fight. Taunt is nice but limited to one target.

I do really like Jalis, but find that with our party comps our Revs are much more able to run offensively minded builds (for example, we BE much more than PA while in Mallyx).

YMMV.

(edited by QuantumCat.9051)

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Posted by: dzeRnumbrd.6129

dzeRnumbrd.6129

After the dust settles and people explore their professions properly, there won’t be blobs of Scourges – other OP mechanics will be discovered within all the remaining professions. A lot of people love their main and won’t just switch to playing necromancer all of a sudden.

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Posted by: Reaper Alim.4176

Reaper Alim.4176

After the dust settles and people explore their professions properly, there won’t be blobs of Scourges – other OP mechanics will be discovered within all the remaining professions. A lot of people love their main and won’t just switch to playing necromancer all of a sudden.

If these players are in organized WvW guilds. They most certainly will, or risk getting kicked out. They will then be farmed by the other servers, in their PUG squad or Unorganized guild squad. Unless they are just playing WvW for the rewards and then dip. They will find no fun to being constantly farmed. Unless they are on overstacked servers whose PUGs can farm others because of superior numbers.

Right now Spellbreakers, and Scourges are looking to take the center stage. In less than two weeks.

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Posted by: Artaz.3819

Artaz.3819

OK, here you go – new zerg meta

(aka multi-target ranged pull bomb)

(edited by Artaz.3819)

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Posted by: Artaz.3819

Artaz.3819

Deadeye : lowered mobility for rifle users so it will likely be for defending structures / scouting keeps . The deadeye marks may be used with regular thief weapons

Deadeye/stealth gank squads will be a thing (just like ghost thief). The ranged Deadeye’s Mark (boon strip from stealth/daze to knock gliders out of air/mug damage/poison spam) with 1500 range basically spammable immobilize/also applies poison all while possible to do in 2x 4s Quickness burst plus multiple stealth options or multi-teleport/escape option is way too strong.

(edited by Artaz.3819)