[Guide] DPS Guardian for PVE

[Guide] DPS Guardian for PVE

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Posted by: obal.3218

obal.3218

Latest Updates
1/29/2016
Added starter build

Video Guide

Zerker – https://youtu.be/oWKSOGhLDi8
Condi – https://youtu.be/HRDZWE6fL_w

General Text Guide

Gear

Stats

  • Berserker with Assassin Weapons and 2 Trinkets – Zerker Set
  • Viper Amulet + Everything else Sinister – Condi Set (Group)
  • Viper Armor + Viper Amulet + Everything else Sinister – Condi Set (Solo)

Infusions

  • Zerker – Power
  • Condi – Condi

Weapons

  • GS – Top DPS burst weapon
  • Bow – Top DPS with GS
  • Hammer – Top sustained DPS weapon
  • Mace – Use with GS if blocks are needed or with hammer
  • Torch – Use with Mace for DPS and condi
  • Mace – Use for blocks
  • Sheild – Use for utility out of combat or more cc for raids
  • Sword – Use for condi trash
  • Scepter – Use for condi boss or larget targets when solo

Runes

  • Scholar – Zerker
  • Flame Legion – Zerker alternative
  • Balthazar – Condi

Sigils (Multiple sets is optimal)

Zerker

  • Force + Air
  • Night + Force
  • Slaying + Force or Night

Condi

  • Scepter – Air
  • Torch – Earth
  • Sword – Bursting
  • GS (Boss) – Geomancy + Earth
  • GS (Trash) – Earth + Bursting
  • Alternative Cheap Sigil – Geomancy

Consumables

Food

Zerker

  • Bowl of Seaweed Salad – Most optimal food if you like to dance and for record runs
  • Plate of Truffle Steak – Best in general
  • Fried Golden Dumplings – Best for solo
  • Birthday Blaster – Free decent alternative

Condi

  • Koi Cake – Best
  • Super Veggie Pizza – Cheap alternative
  • Fried Golden Dumplings – Best for solo

Utility

Zerker

  • Slaying Potions – The best choice if the mobs are all the same type
  • Toxic Sharpening Stones – Best when slaying doesn’t apply

Condi

  • Toxic Focusing Crystal – Best choice though slaying is fairly close so you can use that as a cheaper alternative or other condi utilities. If you stick with cheaper alternatives you should get more viper gear to account for the loss in condi duration.

(edited by obal.3218)

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Posted by: obal.3218

obal.3218

Builds

  • Use Master of Consecrations, Absolute Resolution, and Indomitable Courage when needed
  • Use Focus for fights where you need block rotations and at start for Shield of Wrath then swap to Torch or Bow

GS

  • Build – Bowbear Hunter
  • Best build for short fights due to the strong starting burst
  • Use Bow if no blocks are needed for max DPS
  • Use Mace if blocks are needed for a small loss
  • Don’t use F1 if others can’t keep up cripple unless your group has terrible vuln stacking

Scepter

Hammer

  • Build- Bowbear Hunter Minus Bow
  • Best build for longer fights since the DPS evens out with GS and is greater with quickness
  • Best for an easier time
  • Good for CC. Use mace/shield on swap for more
  • Use Mace since it’s not much of a loss over bow and you mainly run the build for support/survival anyway and offhand to fit your situation
  • Use Empowering Might instead of Pure of Heart if might is not being covered

Condi

  • Build – Group
  • Build – Solo
  • Good Alternative to Zerker
  • Best for bosses with large hitboxes and soloing bosses
  • Use Scepter for bosses and Sword for trash
  • Use Zealous Scepter instead of Fiery Wrath when solo against bosses or in low might groups
  • Use Inner Fire instead of Right-Hand Strength when solo or in low fury groups
  • Don’t hit F1!

Starter/Free Account

  • Build – Dragonhunterless
  • Drop Radiance for Dragonhunter when you get it
  • Spam virtues to get retal or take radiant fire + amplified wrath instead
  • Take inner fire when solo or group doesn’t cover fury

Weapon Skill Notes

  • Whirling Wrath hits more than 9 times if you stand in a target hitbox
  • Binding Blades hits more than once if you stand in a target hitbox with adds around it
  • Symbol of Wrath after cast can be avoided by moving right after the symbol is down, using a skill, or swapping
  • Mighty Blow is a small DPS loss compared to using auto chains only so use it if there are beneficial symbols down.
  • Protector’s Strike can be canceled by hitting the escape key
  • Cleansing Flame is a DPS loss for condi boss and zerker so only use it in desperation

(edited by obal.3218)

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obal.3218

Rotation Notes

  • Use Feel My Wrath at the start and when it comes off cooldown since it’s more beneficial to group DPS
  • Use Whirling Wrath when it comes up again ignoring the gs chain completion
  • Stand in the hitbox of a boss when using Whirling Wrath to get more hits
  • Save symbols on GS and Bow on a swap if Procession of Blades will come off cd. Use Trap -> Symbol to maximize DPS since the trap activation has a delay
  • When using hammer builds use Procession of Blades -> F1 to maximize DPS since the trap activation has a delay and they both will have the same cd
  • Try to break mace chains after the 2nd auto attack with offhand skills, F1, Trap, Symbol, and Mace block if being targeted. Faithful Strike is terrible DPS.
  • Use Zealot’s Fire off the start if using Radiant Fire so it doesn’t proc over it
  • Don’t use Zealot’s Fire for trash except the lead off one if there is more than one left. Continue to use Zealot’s Flame though.
  • Camp hammer when quickness is up. Mace would be a loss in DPS in that case.

DPS Rotations

Zerker

  • GS + Bow = Feel My Wrath (If equipped) -> Focus5(Use and swap out before fight) -> Procession of Blades (If equipped)-> F1 -> Bow4 -> Use any other traps equipped -> Bow2 -> swap -> GS2 -> GS4 -> GS5 -> GS3 -> GS Autos -> GS2 -> swap -> Bow2 -> Bow Auto -> Trap -> F1 -> Bow4 -> Bow2 -> Bow3 -> Bow Auto -> Bow2 -> swap and repeat gs and bow combo. Use symbol on GS whenever Procession comes up or after the first WW if it won’t be up. Use symbol on Bow whenever Procession comes up or before the third Bow2
  • Hammer + Mace – Feel My Wrath (If equipped) -> Focus5(Use and swap out before fight) -> Procession of Blades (If equipped) -> F1 -> Mace2 -> Use any other traps equipped -> Torch4 -> swap -> hammer auto -> swap -> Mace2 -> Mace Auto -> Torch4 -> Mace Auto -> Procession of Blades (If Equipped)-> F1 -> Mace2 -> swap and repeat hammer and mace combo. Use traps after a completed hammer chain when it comes up. Use traps after mace auto 2. Use mace symbol at start of rotation as usual
  • Hammer + Mace (Perma Quickness) – Procession of Blades (If equipped) -> F1 -> Mace2 -> Use any other traps equipped -> swap -> hammer auto. Use traps and F1 off cd
  • Scepter = Feel My Wrath -> Scepter2 -> Focus5 -> Focus4 -> Torch4 (Trait Proc) -> Torch4 -> Autos and keep using Smite, Torch 4 (Trait Proc), Torch4 off cooldown. Around 30s and when Torch4 is used swap back to focus for 4 & 5 then swap back to torch

Condi

  • Condi Trash – Summon Sword then Feel My Wrath -> Purging Flames if slotted -> GS4 -> GS2 -> GS5 -> swap -> Torch4 (don’t throw) -> Sword Auto -> Torch4 (don’t throw) and finish current Sword Chain -> GS2 -> GS4 -> GS3 -> GS Auto -> repeat sword and gs combo commanding spirit weapon whenever up
  • Condi Boss – Summon Spirit Weapons then Feel My Wrath -> Purging Flames if slotted -> Torch4 -> Scepter2 -> Torch4 -> swap -> GS5 -> GS4 -> GS2 -> GS3 -> GS Auto -> swap -> Scepter2 -> Torch4 -> use Torch4 and Scepter2 off cd/prokittenil you do a 3rd Scepter2 and 2nd Torch4(non trait proc) -> swap -> GS4 -> GS2 -> GS3 -> GS Auto -> repeat scepter and gs combo commanding spirit weapon whenever up and Purging Flames off cd

(edited by obal.3218)

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Posted by: obal.3218

obal.3218

Skills

Heal

  • Purification – Good for when blocks aren’t important which is most content now
  • Shelter – Good for dungeons, fractals, and open world when blocks are important
  • Signet of Resolve – Use when you need a big reliable heal and blocks aren’t important. Good for map completion in Tyria but not HoT

Utilities

Utility

  • Retreat – Use for running, kiting, boss fights, and just overall content if you have a free slot for a block
  • Wall of Reflection – Use when there are projectiles
  • Shield of the Avenger – Use when there are a lot of projectiles along with Wall of Reflection. Use along with retreat for Aegis spam as well.
  • Stand Your Ground – Use if knockback, stun, daze, etc are an issue
  • Hallowed Ground – Use if knockback, stun, daze, etc are a big issue
  • Sanctuary – Use when you need to keep enemies out of an objective
  • Purging Flames – Condi removal if absolutely needed

DPS for Zerker

  • Procession of Blades – Use if you have a free slot with DH. Use it before bosses trigger if possible to get more in!
  • Bane Signet – Use if you have a 2nd free slot with DH or 1st free slot without DH
  • Test of Faith – Use if you have a 3rd free slot with DH. For bosses that take time to trigger since you can place it a certain way to hit it twice
  • Save Yourselves – Situational good for power of the virtuous damage, fury, swiftness, and stun break

DPS for Condi

  • Sword of Justice – Use if you have a free slot
  • Hammer of Wisdom – Use if you have a 2nd free slot for bosses
  • Purging Flames – Use if you have a 3rd free slot for bosses or 2nd free slot for mobs
  • Signet of Wrath – Use if you have another 3rd free slot for mobs

Niche

  • Merciful Intervention – Useful for mobility
  • Judge’s Intervention – Useful for mobility

Elite

  • “Feel My Wrath!” – When you don’t need blocks
  • Renewed Focus -When you need blocks
  • Signet of Courage – Niche skill. Should be able to burst stuff down with “Feel My Wrath!” instead.
  • Dragon’s Maw – Take if quickness is covered already

Virtues

  • Virtue of Justice – Spam it with DH if you group can keep up cripple 50% or more the time. Keep it passive otherwise
  • Virtue of Resolve – Use to remove conditions with Absolute Resolution traited or if team is low
  • Virtue of Courage – Use to alternate blocks at boss fights, keep up up UC, projectile defense, and to give stability with Indomitable Courage

How Am I Supposed to Survive?

  • Blind Spam – Virtue of Justice Spam, Leap of Faith, Ray of Judgement, Deflecting Shot
  • Block Rotations – Virtue of Courage, Retreat, Shelter, Shield of Wrath, Renewed Focus, Shield of the Avenger, Protector’s Strike
  • Projectile Defense – Wall of Reflection, Shield of the Avenger, Sanctuary (if need be)
  • Crowd Control – Binding Blades for grouping mobs to kill quicker, Line of Warding or Ring of Warding when luring to a LoS spot to keep them interrupted while you attack freely and blind them from behind the line/ring
  • Dodge – You have some vigor from bow, Save Yourselves, Vigorous Precision if you choose to bring it
  • Condition Removal – Purging Flames, Absolute Resolution, Ray of Judgement, and Whirls in light fields, Cleansing Flame
  • Perma Protection if you run hammer
  • DPS – Stuff will die faster than you! Rallying off good dps is usually better than reviving.

(edited by obal.3218)

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Posted by: durend.6237

durend.6237

Looks good. Just a formatting suggestion. I feel like the text during your sigil section runs together, especially in the 1h sigil section.

1H:
Night + Force
Night + Slaying or Force + Slaying if mobs are same type for the dungeon
Accuracy + Force for daytime dungeons with a mix of mobs
Perception + Perception (2 = 2 stacks per kill) for stacking on trash when using the Hammer build or the Sword + GS build if you do DPS rotations
Bloodlust + Bloodlust if your going to use only sword with RH Strength trait or have a ranger with Spotter in the group + banner of discipline

Perhapse consider italics/underline/bullets to help improve readability?

1H:

  • Night + Force
  • Night + Slaying or Force + Slaying if mobs are same type for the dungeon
  • Accuracy + Force for daytime dungeons with a mix of mobs
  • Perception + Perception (2 = 2 stacks per kill) for stacking on trash when using the Hammer build or the Sword + GS build if you do DPS rotations
  • Bloodlust + Bloodlust if your going to use only sword with RH Strength trait or have a ranger with Spotter in the group + banner of discipline

also

Merciful Intervention – Useful for hard trash run

Did you mean Judge’s Intervention?

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Posted by: Cat Has Ducks.1982

Cat Has Ducks.1982

DPS Rotation for extend fights – GS2 -> GS4 -> GS3 -> GS5 if no pull is needed -> GS auto until GS3 is up -> GS3 -> Swap to sword -> Focus 4 -> Focus 5 if not needed for survival -> Sword auto until 1s after swap is available -> repeat GS and sword rotation
For short fights I use GS2-4 -> Sword

Shouldn’t that read auto until GS2 is up?

Lord Chuck I – Guardian
Chuck The Stampede – Engineer
[Lg] Agatha – Dragonbrand

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Posted by: Fror.2163

Fror.2163

Please mods, sticky this!

Frór (yes, with the accent!)

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Posted by: obal.3218

obal.3218

Combined condi with zerk guide above.

(edited by obal.3218)

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Posted by: Natsu Dragneel.1625

Natsu Dragneel.1625

This needs a sticky, +1 cookie from me.

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Posted by: The Mexican Cookie.3690

The Mexican Cookie.3690

Go mods go!

obal pls stay

#LoveArrows2013, never forget.

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Posted by: swiftpaw.6397

swiftpaw.6397

Sticky required.

Grandmaster Forum Mind Brain
|-Swiftpaw Sharpclaw [DnT]-|

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Posted by: Kelnis.1829

Kelnis.1829

+1’d the OP, Glad someone took the time to write up something regarding DPS guardians.

Also, very, very nice whirlwinds. I don’t have a team to do dungeons with reliably, so I don’t have a chance to use optimal buff setups like this. The most I usually see, in much less optimal situations, is 36k~38k. I’ve always wanted to test the potential in a proper, optimized setup.

Also, was this done with an ascended weapon? I can’t find any evidence either way, but I am assuming it is given the upload date. If it isn’t… go break 50k and record it too ;D!

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Posted by: obal.3218

obal.3218

+1’d the OP, Glad someone took the time to write up something regarding DPS guardians.

Also, very, very nice whirlwinds. I don’t have a team to do dungeons with reliably, so I don’t have a chance to use optimal buff setups like this. The most I usually see, in much less optimal situations, is 36k~38k. I’ve always wanted to test the potential in a proper, optimized setup.

Also, was this done with an ascended weapon? I can’t find any evidence either way, but I am assuming it is given the upload date. If it isn’t… go break 50k and record it too ;D!

I didn’t craft one at that point. I plan on doing it again when I have a full set of ascended armor.

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Posted by: Damaskinos.1263

Damaskinos.1263

Sticky required!

Great job OP. Finaly the Zerker’s fraction delivered!
Thank you very much.

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Posted by: guanlongwucaii.3162

guanlongwucaii.3162

We need one of these for every class forum as a sticky.

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Posted by: Oranisagu.3706

Oranisagu.3706

I wanted to make a thread, but since you’re already talking about dungeon builds, I’ll just tag along here, if you don’t mind.

I’ve tried one of the variants of this build yesterday in a pug group and it was horrible ;-)
I had zero sustain and since the rest of the group didn’t offer any support/defensive boons, I frequently downed and even got killed.

while I’m sure such a build would perform well in a coordinated group (or just a group of experienced players), I was wondering if you have any suggestions for a more sustainable pug build with still decent damage?
usually I run a lazy hammer/gs with pure-voice/AH with some boon duration runes (obviously zerker gear), which allows me to dish somewhat decent damage and offer a few defensive boons. it’s very easy to play and seems to keep people alive a lot better than some other guards I meet in dungeons (especially those pesky staff, scepter/focus players). I’d rather get rid of AH, though I lack inspiration =)

on another note: I always liked how running with a mace felt, but pretty much everyone here frowns upon it so I don’t use it in dungeons. is there any decent mace build for dungeons (as I said, pugging speedruns, not coordinated groups) which still does noticable damage and helps the party with some sustain? when running zerker ele in AC I often miss some steady regen/heals, especially while using conjures, which is why I’ve kept thinking about guardian mace recently. I mostly run dungeons with my mesmer (which, for some reason, has fewer problems playing full dps without much sustain than my guard), but depending group composition I’d like to use guardian sometimes – right now I mostly use him when I’m drunk, because he’s pretty much indestructible.

sorry for the wall of text and thanks for reading.

tl;dr: puggable mace-build with decent damage, or something similarly supporty while still running zerker?

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Posted by: The Mexican Cookie.3690

The Mexican Cookie.3690

I had zero sustain and since the rest of the group didn’t offer any support/defensive boons, I frequently downed and even got killed.

tl;dr: puggable mace-build with decent damage, or something similarly supporty while still running zerker?

That’s mostly a problem on your end, not the teams. Even in organized teams, the guardian is usually the only one offering defensive boons and sustain.

As for the build, try the hammer variant. You could use mace with that trait setup instead, but it’s a lot less effective (i.e. I would recommend not doing it).

#LoveArrows2013, never forget.

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Posted by: haviz.1340

haviz.1340

This is how guardian dps build looks like in action:

http://youtu.be/PfmilDFq7yQ

Endless amount of burning, three allies and really fast fight. Though, this build is really hard to master, just one stunbreaker, no stability and rather hard to manage condition removal.

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Posted by: swiftpaw.6397

swiftpaw.6397

This is how guardian dps build looks like in action:

http://youtu.be/PfmilDFq7yQ

Endless amount of burning, three allies and really fast fight. Though, this build is really hard to master, just one stunbreaker, no stability and rather hard to manage condition removal.

I’m sorry but this build offends me (somehow)

Grandmaster Forum Mind Brain
|-Swiftpaw Sharpclaw [DnT]-|

(edited by swiftpaw.6397)

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Posted by: Anicetus.1253

Anicetus.1253

This is how guardian dps build looks like in action:

http://youtu.be/PfmilDFq7yQ

Endless amount of burning, three allies and really fast fight. Though, this build is really hard to master, just one stunbreaker, no stability and rather hard to manage condition removal.

I’m sorry but this build upsets me (somehow)

Fixed that for you.

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Posted by: haviz.1340

haviz.1340

I’m sorry but this build offends me (somehow)

Don’t do it to me.

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Posted by: Oranisagu.3706

Oranisagu.3706

That’s mostly a problem on your end, not the teams. Even in organized teams, the guardian is usually the only one offering defensive boons and sustain.

As for the build, try the hammer variant. You could use mace with that trait setup instead, but it’s a lot less effective (i.e. I would recommend not doing it).

Am I missing something in obals post? as I said, I tried the full offensive build in this thread. that means, it does not offer any defensive boons whatsoever. condi cleanse comes from either purging flames, F2 if traited or signet, I didn’t find that to be a problem, nor having only one stunbreaker (who would even have more than one? I often run without one if I’m comfortable around the bosses and their tells). it offers lots of blinds (useless on champs, but still 3 vuln) and burning and quite high damage – but no def boons as far as I can tell (ok, f2/f3, but with very high cooldowns).

if you say the guardian is usually the one offering defensive boons, do you mean to say the build as stated is not useful? neither for coordinated groups nor pugs?

you are of course right about hammer, I’ll probably go back to it, accepting the loss of dps compared to a traited sword. it does seem to be more effective as it helps the group stay alive.

I don’t know what kind of pugs you’ve come in contact with, but most of the time there is no support (offensive or defensive). I try my best to do multiple roles at once but obviously that means I can’t commit to any one role completely, which is why I doubt a full DPS build for guard will ever work for me, unless I find a guild which runs dungeons somewhat seriously. sometimes I get a good group where everybody just works well together, which is extremely enjoyable but also pretty rare. besides, I’ve pretty much reached my skill cap and won’t be getting much better than I’m now – I won’t be able to solo dungeons (or specific bosses) nor will I be able to play without any mistakes. I’m a better player than a few people I’ve run dungeons with but I do know my limits (awareness/reaction being the most limiting factors, might be my age ;-) ).

thus my question:
does anyone have a suggestion for a build with decent dps and (mainly defensive) support? mace was just an idea because playing other classes I often would have liked just a bit of sustain through regen/heals from others and mace seems to be offering exactly that (and I kinda like the look of the moot, would make a larger guard than my current asura and forge moot if I find a useful build).

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Posted by: The Show Must Go On.3415

The Show Must Go On.3415

Hey Oranisagu,

The Hammer build Obal suggests probably is the best mix of DPS and support, but I am enjoying GS + mace/focus in melee combat. Mace can hit hard and I love the synergy with focus. Two symbols for condi rinse are great too. And the regen that comes with mace symbol is good when stacking (when no one else with better regen is providing the boon of course). I am no expert but having success with a 10 25 10 5 20 build. Not the highest DPS for sure, but it’s quite reasonable. And you have Strength in Numbers for more party support.

I find this build well balanced with pugs. A nice stepping stone to more hard core builds I will try when I get more experienced.

And thanks Obal for creating this great thread. I never thought I could try a DPS oriented build with my guard and I love it.

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Posted by: The Mexican Cookie.3690

The Mexican Cookie.3690

That’s mostly a problem on your end, not the teams. Even in organized teams, the guardian is usually the only one offering defensive boons and sustain.

As for the build, try the hammer variant. You could use mace with that trait setup instead, but it’s a lot less effective (i.e. I would recommend not doing it).

There is a hammer build posted in this thread. It is a more defensive setup. With this build you will maintain prot, which is a permanent 33% damage reduction. You can also maintain regen, and you have good condition cleanse. You are also stacking vuln, and you have your usual consecrations for support. I should have worded my first post differently. Guardians are usually the only ones, or main ones providing defensive utility. Boons was too specific.

If you are dying too much, or your party members are, it is not a problem of build. It is a player problem. You could swap in knights gear instead of berserker perhaps. Too many changes to the build(s) above in favor of more support and you end up with a support tank, which do more harm than good.

#LoveArrows2013, never forget.

(edited by Moderator)

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Posted by: Moderator.9532

Moderator.9532

As a reminder to everyone, please stay on topic and keep the discusison constructive and friendly.

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Posted by: Natsu Dragneel.1625

Natsu Dragneel.1625

That Sticky! #15charrs

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Posted by: obal.3218

obal.3218

That Sticky! #15charrs

I was wondering where the post went

I’ve tried one of the variants of this build yesterday in a pug group and it was horrible ;-)
I had zero sustain and since the rest of the group didn’t offer any support/defensive boons, I frequently downed and even got killed.

Sustainability comes from the blind spam, aegis, shelter, renewed focus, focus#5, and wall/sheild. It takes awhile to adjust having the low hp pool and toughness. I’d suggest running the hammer build for perma prot at first. You can run knights armor also until you get used to it as well.

while I’m sure such a build would perform well in a coordinated group (or just a group of experienced players), I was wondering if you have any suggestions for a more sustainable pug build with still decent damage?
usually I run a lazy hammer/gs with pure-voice/AH with some boon duration runes (obviously zerker gear), which allows me to dish somewhat decent damage and offer a few defensive boons. it’s very easy to play and seems to keep people alive a lot better than some other guards I meet in dungeons (especially those pesky staff, scepter/focus players). I’d rather get rid of AH, though I lack inspiration =)

The hammer 15/15/10/20/10 would probably best suit pugs. AH is a lot of points better spent to support the group. The only thing in valor worth running in a group is strength in numbers.

on another note: I always liked how running with a mace felt, but pretty much everyone here frowns upon it so I don’t use it in dungeons. is there any decent mace build for dungeons (as I said, pugging speedruns, not coordinated groups) which still does noticable damage and helps the party with some sustain? when running zerker ele in AC I often miss some steady regen/heals, especially while using conjures, which is why I’ve kept thinking about guardian mace recently. I mostly run dungeons with my mesmer (which, for some reason, has fewer problems playing full dps without much sustain than my guard), but depending group composition I’d like to use guardian sometimes – right now I mostly use him when I’m drunk, because he’s pretty much indestructible.

sorry for the wall of text and thanks for reading.

tl;dr: puggable mace-build with decent damage, or something similarly supporty while still running zerker?

The damage you give up for the lack of support mace does isn’t worth it. Mace damage isn’t comparable to gs + sword/focus rotations and the regen it does isn’t comparable to hammer’s protection. Hammer still does comparable damage while giving your team perma prot which makes a big difference especially in higher level fractals. Perma prot is the difference between being able to take 0-1 hits compared to 1-2 and regen you still will be able to take 0-1.

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Posted by: Balsa.3951

Balsa.3951

nice i didnt test my numbers like u but I myself also came to the mix s/f and gs

it just felt very right maybe bcs im so used from warrior to swap weapons for rotation.

my highest gs hit whirl thing was 24k at fractals in a random group after that i was sure its worth it.

one Question

How to u test ur builds?

I personal just learning by doin but i dont have fix numbers in my head ever

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Posted by: Oranisagu.3706

Oranisagu.3706

Sustainability comes from the blind spam, aegis, shelter, renewed focus, focus#5, and wall/sheild. It takes awhile to adjust having the low hp pool and toughness. I’d suggest running the hammer build for perma prot at first. You can run knights armor also until you get used to it as well.

The hammer 15/15/10/20/10 would probably best suit pugs. AH is a lot of points better spent to support the group. The only thing in valor worth running in a group is strength in numbers.

The damage you give up for the lack of support mace does isn’t worth it. Mace damage isn’t comparable to gs + sword/focus rotations and the regen it does isn’t comparable to hammer’s protection. Hammer still does comparable damage while giving your team perma prot which makes a big difference especially in higher level fractals. Perma prot is the difference between being able to take 0-1 hits compared to 1-2 and regen you still will be able to take 0-1.

thank you very much for your answer! it’s very true that prot is more desirable than regen. I find it kinda hard to distinguish what is lacking from a random teammember or group in general if I’m playing another profession with somewhat complicated (well, click-intensive) rotations like s/d ele. I just notice frequently how fast health is draining at the spider queen in ac – usually because someone forgot to wall of reflection in the first place. I guess it was wishful thinking that the mace could be used. maybe dec 10 or some later patch buffs it enough to warrant taking it – as you said, regen is weaker than prot, which should allow (a traited) mace to do at least equal damage to a hammer, from a balance standpoint.

in your video you explain the typical dps rotation, but you never use sword #3, why is that? rotation timing or is the damage less than autoattack?

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Posted by: Tarsius.3170

Tarsius.3170

Congrats on the sticky!

Can I suggest a title change in line with the other forum stickies?

[Guide/PVE] Guardian DPS

or something similar.

Warhaft Tarsius – Asura Guardian ( Desolation ) – [NUKE]
Guardian FAQ · BUGS · HEALING

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Posted by: Fror.2163

Fror.2163

in your video you explain the typical dps rotation, but you never use sword #3, why is that? rotation timing or is the damage less than autoattack?

This attack deals less damage than auto-attack. Also, it is a projectile attack, meaning that it can be reflected by the rare mobs able to do so. As Brazil said in his own guide, this is kind of a mini wall of reflects except it doesn’t reflect. So this attack is more situational when you’re out of blinds, aegis and rolls, which occurs… close to never.

Frór (yes, with the accent!)

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Posted by: fourhim.3584

fourhim.3584

Thank you for this. As a newish Guardian (level 34 now), I had some questions.

I had intended this to be a high crit chance build with Sword/Torch and Greatsword, but after trying out Focus I see why it is so valuable. I was doing some story quests last night and with 2 blocks and 3 blinding attacks + aegis I almost never took damage, and that was without dodging!

My question is regarding which is better between +10% to burning foes and + 15% crit chance (slightly more since it would mean + 50 precision also).

I’m debating between 0/30/0/10/30 and 10/25/0/10/25. I have the 10 there in both because I use shouts a lot. If I went all crit chance I might try Assassin’s gear, but if I gave up some crit chance to focus more on power and + 10 % to burning foes, I’d go Berzerker. The only reason I’m hesitant is because I don’t know how often I could keep an enemy burning.

Thanks for the advice.

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Posted by: Fror.2163

Fror.2163

Fourhim, you don’t rely on yourself only to set everything on fire. Usually, you’re 5 in a party and permanent fire is easily achieved in nearly any group composition with a guard. So you’d better keep the 10 in zeal. The bonus is actually huge.

Also, the builds that Obal gave allow to to reach 100% crit chance rather easily (as always: in a proper party), so I’d prefer to stay zerker instead of going assassin’s to not get too much precision.

I suppose you should play a little bit with build editors to see the stats. Make sure you type down that you have 100% fury uptime, because in an optimized party, that’s what you get. Also select your weapons/stacks according to your party because your party might provide you with a lot of what you want already. In doubt, always ask what your party does and make your build up accordingly. With experience, this will come rather easily.

Frór (yes, with the accent!)

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Posted by: Brutaly.6257

Brutaly.6257

Well deserved sticky and something these forums sorely needed.

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Posted by: obal.3218

obal.3218

nice i didnt test my numbers like u but I myself also came to the mix s/f and gs

it just felt very right maybe bcs im so used from warrior to swap weapons for rotation.

my highest gs hit whirl thing was 24k at fractals in a random group after that i was sure its worth it.

one Question

How to u test ur builds?

I personal just learning by doin but i dont have fix numbers in my head ever

I just play tested them in Arah and Fractals 48-79 using the core trait lines with variations. As far as theory crafting goes, others have tested them out and I’m just providing a summary guide to help people since so many people ask and they can just find the answers here. Nikaido’s sword build and Brazil’s hammer build pretty much paved the way for the meta.

in your video you explain the typical dps rotation, but you never use sword #3, why is that? rotation timing or is the damage less than autoattack?

There has been debates about this. The difference is so slight that it really doesn’t make a difference. I’d rather not break up the sword auto chain for this as it would be a loss. I just use it when reflections are down, the shield flickers off, or I have to stay out of range of something for a few seconds like the rampaging ice ele in the dredge fractal when it does the ground pound agony circle.

My question is regarding which is better between +10% to burning foes and + 15% crit chance (slightly more since it would mean + 50 precision also).

I’m debating between 0/30/0/10/30 and 10/25/0/10/25. I have the 10 there in both because I use shouts a lot. If I went all crit chance I might try Assassin’s gear, but if I gave up some crit chance to focus more on power and + 10 % to burning foes, I’d go Berzerker. The only reason I’m hesitant is because I don’t know how often I could keep an enemy burning.

Thanks for the advice.

I would go with 10/25/0/10/25. The 10% damage modifier would be better than the extra crit chance of a weapon that you should only be using half the time. If you play in a group and are spamming F1 enemies will almost always have burning on them except a few that cleanse themselves which isn’t many. I would stick with berserker as well since if you run with a group you should have perma fury and banner of discipline you will have around 80% chance to crit and with some cheap food like minotaur steaks and stacking perception you will have around 93%. If you had a ranger with spotter on top of that it would be over 100 so that is why I would suggest bloodlust in that case. I would only suggest running assassins gear if you want to try to beat Dub’s lupi solo record where reflection damage is around half of your damage.

(edited by obal.3218)

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Posted by: akamon.2769

akamon.2769

grats on the sticky, buddy!

Akaimon | Jolly Good Guardian
Akaigi | Warrior Made of Wood
[CDS] – Sanctum of Rall

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Posted by: OrangeSquash.7541

OrangeSquash.7541

I’m trying out this build at the moment and so far its working really well. Do you know if this build will be affected by the upcoming class balance in dec? Thanks

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Posted by: obal.3218

obal.3218

I’m trying out this build at the moment and so far its working really well. Do you know if this build will be affected by the upcoming class balance in dec? Thanks

It will just make the gs + sword/focus build even stronger since the sword trait is going from 5% to 10% damage increase. The rest of the traits being updated weren’t worth using and still won’t be.

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Posted by: fadeaway.2807

fadeaway.2807

With the new fractals, this guide is more important than ever. Let’s hope people / pugs pay attention to it.

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Posted by: ProtoGunner.4953

ProtoGunner.4953

Using this build now. I love it, though pretty risky with not-so-good-pugs with no DPS since I have problems if fights are taking too long.

With an organized guild group or good players the runs are like a breeze. Also you help the party with the usual buff-fest the Guardian provides.

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Posted by: robertul.3679

robertul.3679

Since mesmer can remove conditions with mantra and guard can add purging flames if you need even more is the traited resolve really worth it? You should be averaging 4 boons (swiftness, fury, might, vigor) so the dps gain is not that much. Maybe 25/30/0/5/10. I know 5% gs damage isn’t as big but 150 more power could be.

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Posted by: obal.3218

obal.3218

Since mesmer can remove conditions with mantra and guard can add purging flames if you need even more is the traited resolve really worth it? You should be averaging 4 boons (swiftness, fury, might, vigor) so the dps gain is not that much. Maybe 25/30/0/5/10. I know 5% gs damage isn’t as big but 150 more power could be.

Swap to unscathed contender if you don’t need resolve. You can keep it up with a good group and reflects for a decent amount of time. The 4% or so will apply to sword as well so it would be better than the gs trait.

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Posted by: Xystus.3241

Xystus.3241

Obal,

Thank you for all your effort into these guide. I know I have improved greatly over these past few months; still no where near your level, but much better than where I was.

Xyssi – Asura Guardian
Xystus Furtim – Human Theif
Server: Stormbluff Ilse

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Posted by: robertul.3679

robertul.3679

I am fully aware that you lose 1% dps on gs and gain 4% on sword but I was thinking the extra 150 power might compensate for that, obviously in situations where unscathered is not an option.

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Posted by: MastaNeenja.1537

MastaNeenja.1537

Good guide, glad it was stickied

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Posted by: obal.3218

obal.3218

I am fully aware that you lose 1% dps on gs and gain 4% on sword but I was thinking the extra 150 power might compensate for that, obviously in situations where unscathered is not an option.

I did a calc and assuming unscathed + power of the virtuous gives you a 10% buff you get about the same EP on the GS and a few hundred EP loss with a sword. The differences weren’t significant so either build would be fine if you don’t need removal.

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Posted by: CptAurellian.9537

CptAurellian.9537

Maybe you could rephrase this, obal. Afaik, the 24.5 % threshold applies only to the comparison between Scholar and Ruby Orbs, while the threshold for Ranger is much higher. I just fear that some people could misunderstand the current wording in a way that Scholar is also better than Ranger at 25 %.

Runes

  • Scholar – Best choice if you can keep the buff for 24.5% of the time
  • Ranger – The 5% bonus is bugged and is up without a companion so they are a good choice if you can’t keep up the scholar buff much
  • Ruby Orbs – Decent cheap alternative to scholar

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Posted by: Finnway.2183

Finnway.2183

Can I suggest a title change in line with the other forum stickies?

[Guide/PVE] Guardian DPS

or something similar.

This. Perhaps [Guide/PVE] Endgame Guardian or [Guide] Dungeon/Fractal Guardian would be appropriate.

btw, gz on sticky and thanks for the guide.

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Posted by: obal.3218

obal.3218

Maybe you could rephrase this, obal. Afaik, the 24.5 % threshold applies only to the comparison between Scholar and Ruby Orbs, while the threshold for Ranger is much higher. I just fear that some people could misunderstand the current wording in a way that Scholar is also better than Ranger at 25 %.

Runes

  • Scholar – Best choice if you can keep the buff for 24.5% of the time
  • Ranger – The 5% bonus is bugged and is up without a companion so they are a good choice if you can’t keep up the scholar buff much
  • Ruby Orbs – Decent cheap alternative to scholar

I went ahead and clarified it. I’d really like to know the compare to Ranger but I’m unsure how they figured out the scholar vs ruby orb number.

Can I suggest a title change in line with the other forum stickies?

[Guide/PVE] Guardian DPS

or something similar.

This. Perhaps [Guide/PVE] Endgame Guardian or [Guide] Dungeon/Fractal Guardian would be appropriate.

btw, gz on sticky and thanks for the guide.

I changed the title a little given the suggestions. I use i for open world, living story, and anything pve so I just left it for pve.

(edited by obal.3218)

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Posted by: Nike Porphyrogenita.8137

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137

In regards to scholar runes vs ruby orbs

Scholar, >90% health, EP = 7913.19
Scholar, <90% health, EP = 7193.81

Ruby EP = 7370.17

X * 7913.19 + (1-X) * 7193.81 = 7370.17

X = 0.245

—> If you are above 90% health for at least 24.5% of the time, then you are doing better with Scholar than Ruby.

You can use the same formula with any particular build and Ranger runes too in order to see the difference.

Death and Taxes [DnT]
http://www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt
DnT is Recruiting – http://www.dtguilds.com/