[Build/Guide] The Immortal Mesmer v2.0

[Build/Guide] The Immortal Mesmer v2.0

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Introduction

Well, it’s been a while since I’ve posted a build guide here. Between the trait reworks and the substantially larger pool of people exploring builds, having a build actually unique enough to discuss in a guide is a rather rare thing. This build is for organized group WvW and is what I consider to be the Holy Grail of Mesmer WvW builds. It provides usable and powerful utility that truly feels good and enjoyable to play, which to me is the perfect build.

Mesmer has never had good damage, so we’ve attempted to make up for that by providing strong utility. Unfortunately, that has always taken the form of either one-off skills with long cooldowns and questionable impact (portal and veil) or overpowered gimmicks that require zero skill or coordination to be monstrously powerful (old boonshare). The build I’m presenting here provides powerful defensive and offensive utility in a form that requires both personally skilled play and effective group coordination to be fully effective.

Overview

This build is designed for use in an organized WvW group. If you try and use this in pugs, you’re going to have a bad time. If you try and use this without your group being aware and on board, you’re going to have a bad time.

This build is designed to do 2 primary things: share boons and share distortion. You accomplish this through the use of signets with boon duration gear while being supported by the appropriate team composition.

The Build

Traits
Domination: Rending Shatter, Blurred Inscriptions, Mental Torment

Inspiration: Medic’s Feedback, Restorative Illusions, Illusionary Inspiration

Chronomancer: Delayed Reactions, Improved Alacrity, Seize the Moment

Domination is chosen primarily for the signet trait. Traited signets are the highest frequency way to produce distortion. Rending Shatter is primarily taken because the other two are pretty useless. Mental Torment is taken for the same reason.

Inspiration is chosen for the obvious defensive utility, but also because it enables the distortion share through the minor trait Inspiring Distortion. Medic’s Feedback is a fantastic trait in WvW groups as well.

Lastly, Chronomancer is taken for reasons that I probably shouldn’t need to explain. Delayed reactions is taken because it’s the only trait that has an effect, even if that effect is rare. Same thing for Improved Alacrity, since you do get alacrity from shatters. Take Seize the Moment because it provides on-demand access to quickness that “primes” your boons prior to using Signet of Inspiration.

Weapons: Sword/Shield + Focus

I use double mainhand sword because blurred frenzy is by far the strongest mainhand defensive skill we have. Offhand shield is incredibly strong, and offhand focus is the best offhand other than shield for group play.

Utility Skills
Heal: Signet

Utilities: Blink, Signet of Midnight, Signet of Inspiration

Elite: Gravity Well

The focus on signets here is to proc distortion as often as possible. The heal signet also has the extremely handy effect of refreshing your shield block, so that enables a lot of defensive capability. Blink allows you to get out of sticky situations, and gravity well is simply the best elite for group play unless you specifically need the MI stealth.

Build Variations

Domination Traits: swap out mental torment for power block. This trades a small but reliable damage amplifier for a substantially larger spike with added utility…but at the cost of reliability.

But Pyro, my commander says I need to use Veil!

Your commander is stuck in the past and should feel bad. Think about actual situations in WvW. How many times have you actually been caught off guard by another group because of a Veil? It’s obvious when groups use it, it’s obvious where they’re going during it, and literally nobody is surprised by a veiled group unless you’re just afk ramming a gate without paying attention to anything. It’s a garbage skill that was useful years ago due to culling and has stuck around because critical thinking is apparently not a strong point of most drivers.

But Pyro, you don’t have portal either!

That’s true. Portal, unlike Veil, is a legitimately powerful and useful skill. However, its pool of useful situations is exceedingly limited. Due to this, I don’t keep portal on my bar; Mesmer utilities are simply too valuable to have a slot go mostly unused. If we’re approaching a situation that could benefit from portal, the driver will ask for it and I’ll swap Signet of Midnight for portal (and usually gravity well for MI at the same time).

(edited by Fay.2357)

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Gearing Specifics
Stats: Commander’s

Runes: Durability

Sigils: Energy x2 in offhands, Concentration in mainhand

Food: Something with boon duration

The idea here is to hit 100% boon duration. With full commander’s and 20% food, you’ll be at ~80% static, overcapping to 110% on swap. For this reason, the sigil of concentration is not strictly required, but it is nice to have that fully capped duration for a good portion of the fight. Runes of durability are also not strictly required, but the stats they provide along with the surprisingly strong passive boon support makes them BiS.

Gear Variations

Stats: For a tankier variation, swap out pieces of Commander’s gear for wanderer’s gear instead. This provides the same boon duration and toughness bonuses, but with extra vitality. Make this swap with gear until you reach an hp level that you personally feel comfortable with.

Sigils: Instead of double energy in the offhand, you can use sigils of draining instead. This reduces your available dodges, but provides another source of damage and sustain linked to your cc. Alternatively, drop the sigil of concentration for a sigil of draining. To make up the lost boon duration, you’ll want to use a bountiful utility food, as well as potentially an exotic backpiece with a platinum doubloon.

Playing the Build

Distortion

With the minor trait Inspiring Distortion, you provide 1 second of distortion to 5 nearby targets with a 5 second internal cooldown. Using this effect properly is basically the whole point of this build, so it’s exceedingly important that this is done correctly.

The 1 second distortion isn’t very long, so you need to provide it at appropriate moments. Here’s a list of the most common situations where distortion is appropriate to use.

  • Use distortion as the enemy group engages to avoid their heavy damage and cc
  • Use distortion as your driver paths through the enemy group
  • Use distortion when a res is called
  • Use distortion in a hot area when static dps pressure is called

All of these uses require heavy situational awareness. You need to be carefully watching both your group and the enemy group to gauge when the appropriate time for distortion is. Follow the movements of both groups and pay attention to positioning to make sure you don’t get caught off guard.

Remember that non-midnight signets have a cast time, so you need to pre-cast them!

Additionally, you need to track the internal cooldown of inspiring distortion. Using distortion too quickly means that it won’t proc the share and will be wasted. The way I personally do this is by counting to 5 in my head every time I proc distortion, that way I’m continually aware of when the cooldown is ready.

Boons

With proper group composition, this build facilitates high uptime of most boons. Excepting quickness, stability, and resistance, you can have all other boons permanently available. Quickness can have ~90% uptime with the addition of 2 feel my wrath shouts. Resistance doesn’t really have high uptime, but you can maintain about 15 seconds of it after the beginning of a fight if you bring a mallyx rev.

Obviously, boonshare is accomplished by using Signet of Inspiration, but you can’t just use it and the trait off cooldown because that would waste the distortion. Instead, you need to use them as appropriate within the guidelines of distortion sharing. Simply prioritize them first, using the other signets only when the trait and SoI are on cooldown.

Videos

I’m actually still putting together a more detailed guide video for this build, but this video is from the perspective of a revenant in my sub squad, providing the important view of what the other members are actually getting out of the distortion sharing. This video is mainly uncut raid footage so feel free to skip through it, but keep an eye on the boon upkeep (particularly quickness) and invulnerability floaters that get procced during fights.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=LmYhIKIfcQA

(edited by Fay.2357)

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Reserved Post because I haven’t reserved a post in like 3 years and I heard it’s a cool thing to do.

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Posted by: SloRules.3560

SloRules.3560

You are way too tanky for the party you are playing in.

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Posted by: bearshaman.3421

bearshaman.3421

You are way too tanky for the party you are playing in.

This build seems to be for WvW. Vitality and Toughness are perfectly normal to have there. Half the builds for WvW use celestial gear that I’ve seen (across all classes, not just mesmer).

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Posted by: Silverkey.2078

Silverkey.2078

I would feel better if the video was not your group destroying my server, but this being said, Pyro did give me this build a little while back, and from my testing it works great, and is also very survivable even if you find yourself isolated for some reason.

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

You are way too tanky for the party you are playing in.

Full commander’s gear is the only reliable way to hit high boon duration in chaotic WvW fights. The tankiness it provides through toughness is a secondary consideration.

That being said, ‘too tanky’ is an absurd sentiment for a Mesmer build in a WvW group. What are you going to get by sacrificing tankiness? Another 30 damage on your crappy autoattack? Mesmer is best optimized for a WvW group in the way that keeps it alive the longest so that you can provide your utility to your group.

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Posted by: Ghotistyx.6942

Ghotistyx.6942

It is truly beautiful

Fishsticks

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

I would feel better if the video was not your group destroying my server, but this being said, Pyro did give me this build a little while back, and from my testing it works great, and is also very survivable even if you find yourself isolated for some reason.

It’s definitely very survivable on its own. Something you can do is if you’re trying to catch or bait a group that’s close to blink range, just blink into them for the bait (note: don’t do this without driver approval). You can sustain through an arbitrary-sized group attacking you by blowing invuln and block cooldowns, and your team catches up and gets a priority attack after they’ve wasted cooldowns on you.

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Posted by: Ithilwen.1529

Ithilwen.1529

This build did not work at all for me. I got repeatedly pounded into the soil, even worse than power shatter.

Mesmerising Girl

(edited by Ithilwen.1529)

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Posted by: Ansau.7326

Ansau.7326

Sorry, but I don’t see how this build can be effective in a meaningful way.

- Boonshare has been limited a lot since its nerf. You’re at most giving every ~20s: 6s of protection, 6s of quickness, 4s of resistance,10s of fury, 1 stack of stability and 10s of vigor as useful boons. And this is the ideal, but the reality makes boon sharing even worse.
- Distorion share is a nice feature, but it is extremely limited. We are talking about 5-6s every 50s. That is laughable.

So yeah, the build is basically throw some boons and a bit of distortion every a while. And by going with these mechanics, you’re removing the best mesmers get to bring into zergs, glamours and boon ripping.

Ansau – Sylvari Mesmer – Exiled Warriors [wE] – Gandara

i7 5775c @ 4.1GHz – 12GB RAM @ 2400MHz – RX 480 @ 1390/2140MHz

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

This build did not work at all for me. I got repeatedly pounded into the soil, even worse than power shatter.

Ithilwen…

Is it really too much to ask that you read the build description before complaining about it? Let me quote 2 pertinent bits here:

This build is for organized group WvW

This build is designed for use in an organized WvW group. If you try and use this in pugs, you’re going to have a bad time. If you try and use this without your group being aware and on board, you’re going to have a bad time.

Ok? You obviously tried to use this build in PvP and failed because this is not a PvP build. Granted, I didn’t actually say “don’t use this in PvP”, but I honestly didn’t think I needed to be quite that explicit with my disclaimers past stating the direct purpose and proper use of this build.

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Sorry, but I don’t see how this build can be effective in a meaningful way.

Well, if your numbers were correct I would agree, but they’re not really accurate at all.

- Boonshare has been limited a lot since its nerf. You’re at most giving every ~20s: 6s of protection, 6s of quickness, 4s of resistance,10s of fury, 1 stack of stability and 10s of vigor as useful boons. And this is the ideal, but the reality makes boon sharing even worse.

You’re forgetting that SoI is also procced from a trait. What you actually give is as follows…

On a 24 second cycle:

  • 12 seconds of quickness (50% uptime)
  • 20 seconds of vigor and fury (83% uptime)
  • 12 seconds of protection (50% uptime)
  • 2 stacks of stability
  • 8s of resistance (40% uptime)

The actual numbers are quite a bit more impressive than what you stated there.

- Distorion share is a nice feature, but it is extremely limited. We are talking about 5-6s every 50s. That is laughable.

Again, this is totally incorrect. There are 2 metrics you can use for the distortion share: long duration average and realistic average. The long duration average is ~1 use every 7 seconds. However, a realistic fight has ebb and flow, meaning that you’ll easily produce 1s up for every 4 or 5s down during high pressure and recover cooldowns during low pressure.

To use your 50 seconds metric, that’s 10-12.5s of invuln, or 20-25% uptime. 20-25% uptime on invulnerability is pretty insane if you think about it, and substantially higher than your estimate.

So yeah, if your numbers were accurate, I’d agree that the build isn’t worth running. However, your numbers are actually about 50% of the realistic values that this build produces, making that analysis invalid.

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

This would probably work extremely well in small groups as well up to 5 people.

I say that because I’ve seen boonshare mesmers with a bunker ele and condi necros be almost unkillable together while being able to condi spike unorganised roamers. Add in an eternal champion warrior and thief and you got a roaming group with permanent protection/swiftness/regen/fury, high healing/regen, stealth and group condi management.

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Posted by: zinkz.7045

zinkz.7045

… that require zero skill or coordination to be monstrously powerful (old boonshare). The build I’m presenting here provides powerful defensive and offensive utility in a form that requires both personally skilled play and effective group coordination to be fully effective.

LOL, since HoT the combat in this game for WvW has become the most tedious, low skilled, one dimensional, gimmicky crap it has ever been, which is why GvG collapsed and the game has hemorrhaged WvW & PvP players, to the point even with what are effectively server merges it is still in the worst state is has even been in.

WvW was far more skilled (and fun) before, HoT killed the combat, baddies of course love being able to roll round in a melee ball of damage reduction, silly healing, etc as they can now facetank kitten which with their bad positioning and poor movement that used to get them killed.

(edited by zinkz.7045)

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

The video is pretty crazy, but most of all shows some glaring balance issues in this game. I mean the player who filmed this was basically 100% immune to conditions the entire time thanks to permanent Resistance. I’ve always thought it was stupid that this buff was 100% reduction, as any such thing is bound to be OPd unless it is extremely limited in duration. (Such as invulnerability is, or the Distortion sharing you’re doing. Neat yes, effective when used right, but far from OPd due to it’s short duration. Even stacking 2-3 Mesmers wouldn’t improve it’s uptime nearly enough to be worth the loss in damage/healing/etc, so it’s clearly balanced.)

Unfortunately, Anet has been handing Resistance out like candy and stupid crap like this happens. Watching a guy be 100% immune to all conditions for several minute long fights is plain silly…not to even mention the out of control condition cleansing and ludicrous healing on top. Clearly that is a strong reason to forego even running Condition builds in WvW.

Now I realize you guys are anything but average skill level, and it’s fun to watch, and it’s not meant to trivialize that fact…but this looks like a far cry from a balanced game mode.

Build looks interesting, but I was missing the flare of the old Immortal Build…letting idiots kill themselves was just too much fun! :-)

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

While I largely agree with you zinkz as to what the state of combat has devolved into, the nature of running this build does require organized play and good management of abilities. A pug using this build will quite arguably be less impactful and beneficial than gasp a longbow ranger who understands the concept of projectile reflection.

I claimed such a concept (although suggesting Portal and Veil + MI/Moa over Blink and SoM) as being a reasonably powerful ZvZ option a very long time ago but got laughed out of whatever thread I was in for claiming that the mesmer can bring worthwhile utility if it actually bothers to try and gets people to play into its strengths. I’m glad to see something like it working.

The concept is a cool one, and I’m glad to see more people running more out-of-the-box builds and succeeding with them.

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Posted by: DuckDuckBOOM.4097

DuckDuckBOOM.4097

Unfortunately, Anet has been handing Resistance out like candy and stupid crap like this happens. Watching a guy be 100% immune to all conditions for several minute long fights is plain silly…not to even mention the out of control condition cleansing and ludicrous healing on top. Clearly that is a strong reason to forego even running Condition builds in WvW.

Now I realize you guys are anything but average skill level, and it’s fun to watch, and it’s not meant to trivialize that fact…but this looks like a far cry from a balanced game mode.

Build looks interesting, but I was missing the flare of the old Immortal Build…letting idiots kill themselves was just too much fun! :-)

The previous and current builds look similar at first glance but are very different. The old team comp had chronos sharing some really long boon duration. If that chrono went down, the team still had plenty of resistance for a long time. The current one is consistent short duration boons spammed. While that might not seem important at first glance, keep in mind that it still requires skilled players in organized groups. It should also require skilled players in organized groups.

Unlike the old necro meta which uses well of corruption to only corrupt 1 boon per second on 5 people, a new meta needs 2-3 necros to all focus corrupt boon (3x corrupted boons, unblockable, 1200 range and 10 second CD) on the chrono or herald. Chrono because it needs to constantly cast SoI to keep boons up on the group or the Herald because it pulls all the conditions from its allies to itself when it provides aoe resistance. Corrupt the chrono and boon uptime for the whole group goes down a ton. Corrupt the herald and it explodes from 15+ burning stacks and whatever else your 2-3 necros toss at it. Then the necros epidemic to a group that no longer has resistance. The game is much more balanced right now than you think it is.

I too also expected something a bit more similar to the build’s namesake.

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Posted by: Haematic.4913

Haematic.4913

The build does require a skilled / practiced mesmer. Running a composition to compliment this build also requires selfless, practiced and skilled players to effectively reap the benefits of this build in team comp.

The thing that makes this build unique is that it allows players to experience a much more exciting fight in WvW; not to carry “bad players” or to intentionally compensate for positioning mistakes.

As the commander in the video, I make specific invuln calls to give us an edge in a fight, or to make for a risky play that yields extremely satisfying results. It makes WvW feel like the good old days with a melee ball, a ranged team, and a pick squad (all of which we have dedicated squads).

I’m extremely proud of Pyro and what we’ve done with our composition.

Fort Aspenwood – Haematic, Inclina Deus
http://youtube.com/haematic4913
http://twitch.tv/haematic

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Posted by: adelaide.6213

adelaide.6213

Some suggestions to consider:

- Signet of Illusions instead of Midnight for alternative means of providing distortion
- Phantasmal Disenchanter since you’re running Signet heal. Remember it recently got buffed to strip/cleanse 2 boons/condis on cast.
- Not sure why you’re not choosing PowerBlock with focus/shield/gravity well providing interrupt sources.

- Greatsword over focus with the appropriate traits in Domination. With SignetHeal + iZerker, and high quickness uptime combined with (recently buffed) GS auto, you can output heavy pressure on enemy squishies, despite running commander gear.

One of my favorite new combos to pull off since the SoI rework/GS auto buff is iZerker → (Shatter2 mid-cast for quickness) → SoI trait proc → continue GS auto spam with quickness.

(edited by adelaide.6213)

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Posted by: Ansau.7326

Ansau.7326

Sorry, but I don’t see how this build can be effective in a meaningful way.

Well, if your numbers were correct I would agree, but they’re not really accurate at all.

You’re forgetting that SoI is also procced from a trait. What you actually give is as follows…

On a 24 second cycle:

  • 12 seconds of quickness (50% uptime)
  • 20 seconds of vigor and fury (83% uptime)
  • 12 seconds of protection (50% uptime)
  • 2 stacks of stability
  • 8s of resistance (40% uptime)

The actual numbers are quite a bit more impressive than what you stated there.

Again, this is totally incorrect. There are 2 metrics you can use for the distortion share: long duration average and realistic average. The long duration average is ~1 use every 7 seconds. However, a realistic fight has ebb and flow, meaning that you’ll easily produce 1s up for every 4 or 5s down during high pressure and recover cooldowns during low pressure.

To use your 50 seconds metric, that’s 10-12.5s of invuln, or 20-25% uptime. 20-25% uptime on invulnerability is pretty insane if you think about it, and substantially higher than your estimate.

So yeah, if your numbers were accurate, I’d agree that the build isn’t worth running. However, your numbers are actually about 50% of the realistic values that this build produces, making that analysis invalid.

Quite a bit more impressive? You’re still unable to solo perma a single boon for yourself with all the traits and skills used. For a build that is purposely focused on boon creation that is rather disappointing. You’re just doing what everyone else is doing with the small boon generation of all members of a party.

As a realistic fight, let’s take the first fight of your video. That rev gets 1s at 0:18, 0:24, 0:49, 0:56, 1:11, 1:24, 1:42, 1:56, 2:13, 2:42, 2:48, 2:58, 3:14, 3:22 and 3:30, being a total amount of 15s of distortion.
The first fight takes about 180s, here I only count combat time, not the time while disengaging or stacking, this is the time the rev takes damage or can take it.

So there we have, in a real case, your build with your own guild is only able to bring around 8% uptime of distortion during combat. And sorry to say it, but that’s laughable. That rev still has to rely on his evades, blocks and healing to survive.
In fact, your distortion has even less effect as that rev often evades with distortion on him. Also, several times he loses more than 10k health and there is no distortion to mitigate that. The effect is so random and short that a lot of times it is lost.

Don’t get me wrong, the idea is cool, but it’s just suboptimal. It’s nothing better than whatever zerg orientated mesmer build you can design nowadays, and sure it is not the “Holy Grail of Mesmer WvW builds” as you claim…

  • For doing what you pretend to do, you have to sacrifice a lot of the build to achieve it being crap on other aspects, like damage, healing, boon ripping or reflects.
  • What you’re pretending to do has little real impact, as zergs don’t need to be more tanky and boon generation is already good enough.
  • And the effectiveness you have showed us revels it only succeeded because the personal skill of your guild is vastly greater than the mindless pug blobs you faced.
Ansau – Sylvari Mesmer – Exiled Warriors [wE] – Gandara

i7 5775c @ 4.1GHz – 12GB RAM @ 2400MHz – RX 480 @ 1390/2140MHz

(edited by Ansau.7326)

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Posted by: Justine.6351

Justine.6351

Use power block. More utility and more dmg sources for slow procing. Also makes use of your condition duration.

Pickup scepter and pair it with focus. Use into the void and burn multiple people with confusing images. Also comes with a free block. Will also place clones at range (cannons and stuff too) for setting up shatters.

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Posted by: Me Games Ma.8426

Me Games Ma.8426

Nice guide pyro (as expected from a veteran mesmer player)

I actually play something quite similar for roaming.
The major difference is that my stats are much more aggressive (fullzerk) and that I use SoDomination instead of SoInspiration because it’s not supposed to be a group/zerg spec.

You might consider using a Sigil of Draining because your builds’ aoe CC potential is quite high and a good Tides of Time or Gravity well can get you a really nice amount of health back.
I totally agree that Energy/Concentration is a great option though.

~ Me Games Ma

Mindblossom – Sylvari – Mesmer – Jumpingpuzzler
Equinox [EqnX]
Riverside[DE]

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Posted by: Justine.6351

Justine.6351

Sigil of draining is not very good anymore.

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Posted by: Ansau.7326

Ansau.7326

Sigil of draining is not very good anymore.

Of course it is. Why it shouldn’t?

Ansau – Sylvari Mesmer – Exiled Warriors [wE] – Gandara

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Posted by: Justine.6351

Justine.6351

Sigil of draining is not very good anymore.

Of course it is. Why it shouldn’t?

It’s like 666 dmg/life steal on interupt. It’s not always easy getting interupts in scenarios where the enemy has stability in mass and you are not taking boon strips yourself (no nullfield). There are better sigils to take and sigil of draining is only slightly better than sigil of fire which IS garbage.

Now if you are just rolling a bunch of K-train noobs then sure, ya its “good”. The only reason I would take it is if your build has lots of rupts and is starved for heals. This build isn’t starved for heals.

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Posted by: Ballads.2509

Ballads.2509

This build is OK but i have a few issues with it.
-It requires a group comp exactly like the one in the revs video. I love our place in the Meta but this leaves no room for Necros or Warriors…and maybe drewd?
-Whats up with the second rate oil? Yeah, bountiful is expensive, but the stat gain op, suck it up.
-If this build is support not damage why Commanders/knights over Wanders/Soldiers. (Even then 56% at 50% Rate/damage Vrs 11k hp and 300power.)
-Lastly, as great as Sword is the ranged harassment and clone generation of Staff’s cds out weigh Focus alone.
If your Looking for an “Immortal Mesmer” build stick with Chaos over Domination With Wanders/Soldiers. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW8encfClphFrBGoBEgiFij6sBugPzMASgFq+S/0SF-T1xHQBVUJIAuIA57JA8Dlf0T9nwt/A50NEAAB4m3Mb2mBH9oH9oH9od0je0je0jWKgMnaB-w
If your lucky enough not to have to run Veil i like Arcane Thievery or Phantasmal Disenchater. As far as elite skills go its hard to wrong for Mesmer. Well for open field, TW for tight spaces, MoA for GvG/scrims. Even MI can be goodish.

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Posted by: Ansau.7326

Ansau.7326

Sigil of draining is not very good anymore.

Of course it is. Why it shouldn’t?

It’s like 666 dmg/life steal on interupt. It’s not always easy getting interupts in scenarios where the enemy has stability in mass and you are not taking boon strips yourself (no nullfield). There are better sigils to take and sigil of draining is only slightly better than sigil of fire which IS garbage.

Now if you are just rolling a bunch of K-train noobs then sure, ya its “good”. The only reason I would take it is if your build has lots of rupts and is starved for heals. This build isn’t starved for heals.

No, it’s about 1100-1200 damage and 1000 healing per interrupt with no internal CD.

And the fact that you’re not taking Null Field or Shattered Concentration isn’t a problem of the sigil, it’s just you deciding not to take them. And then you should know draining would be the least of your worries.

Ansau – Sylvari Mesmer – Exiled Warriors [wE] – Gandara

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Posted by: Justine.6351

Justine.6351

Sigil of draining is not very good anymore.

Of course it is. Why it shouldn’t?

It’s like 666 dmg/life steal on interupt. It’s not always easy getting interupts in scenarios where the enemy has stability in mass and you are not taking boon strips yourself (no nullfield). There are better sigils to take and sigil of draining is only slightly better than sigil of fire which IS garbage.

Now if you are just rolling a bunch of K-train noobs then sure, ya its “good”. The only reason I would take it is if your build has lots of rupts and is starved for heals. This build isn’t starved for heals.

No, it’s about 1100-1200 damage and 1000 healing per interrupt with no internal CD.

And the fact that you’re not taking Null Field or Shattered Concentration isn’t a problem of the sigil, it’s just you deciding not to take them. And then you should know draining would be the least of your worries.

oh I am wrong, I don’t know why but ive seen mine dmg or heal for 666 recently so I figured it was nerfed. Maybe poison or protection boon. Is ~1k dmg and heal.

https://youtu.be/RhSn2tgjKrI

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Posted by: Ithilwen.1529

Ithilwen.1529

This build did not work at all for me. I got repeatedly pounded into the soil, even worse than power shatter.

Ithilwen…

Is it really too much to ask that you read the build description before complaining about it? Let me quote 2 pertinent bits here:

This build is for organized group WvW

This build is designed for use in an organized WvW group. If you try and use this in pugs, you’re going to have a bad time. If you try and use this without your group being aware and on board, you’re going to have a bad time.

Ok? You obviously tried to use this build in PvP and failed because this is not a PvP build. Granted, I didn’t actually say “don’t use this in PvP”, but I honestly didn’t think I needed to be quite that explicit with my disclaimers past stating the direct purpose and proper use of this build.

Fay,

First, you assume too much and are not correct.

Having said that; This is clearly a niche build that works well on a rehearsed team coordinated on voice. Then again… virtually any build will work well under those conditions.

You, yourself stated the build doesn’t work well without a coordinated team.

I would be willing to bet a pretty stack of bills that a majority (perhaps a super majority ) of Mesmers don’t play under those conditions.

Therefore, I’d consider this build a weak choice for general players.

Mesmerising Girl

(edited by Ithilwen.1529)

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Some suggestions to consider:

- Signet of Illusions instead of Midnight for alternative means of providing distortion

This is an option, but it has a longer base cooldown as well as a cast time, making it overall worse. Signet of midnight also is a stunbreak, and that’s very powerful.

- Phantasmal Disenchanter since you’re running Signet heal. Remember it recently got buffed to strip/cleanse 2 boons/condis on cast.

So I do like pDisenchanter, but it would have to take the place of blink, and that’s obviously not an option.

- Not sure why you’re not choosing PowerBlock with focus/shield/gravity well providing interrupt sources.

I prefer the guaranteed damage amplifier from mental torment compared to the conditional from power block. That’s definitely an option though.

- Greatsword over focus with the appropriate traits in Domination. With SignetHeal + iZerker, and high quickness uptime combined with (recently buffed) GS auto, you can output heavy pressure on enemy squishies, despite running commander gear.

The targeting mechanics of greatsword make it really clunky. Additionally, focus provides an extremely strong and useful aoe pull, making it an overall strong choice. If you want to use greatsword and don’t mind the targeting, it’s definitely an option. Just make sure to keep a focus handy for providing swiftness to your group.

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Use power block. More utility and more dmg sources for slow procing. Also makes use of your condition duration.

I think you must be a bit confused, as power block doesn’t apply any conditions. I am using delayed reactions, the slow on interrupt trait. I prefer mental torment over power block because it provides more reliable damage.

Pickup scepter and pair it with focus. Use into the void and burn multiple people with confusing images. Also comes with a free block. Will also place clones at range (cannons and stuff too) for setting up shatters.

Confusing images, like greatsword, has very clunky targeting. I don’t view the slight damage it provides to be worth losing the cleaving damage of the sword auto and the defense of blurred frenzy.

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

This build is OK but i have a few issues with it.
-It requires a group comp exactly like the one in the revs video. I love our place in the Meta but this leaves no room for Necros or Warriors…and maybe drewd?

So this is a valid criticism. There definitely is some flexibility…but not a ton. You could play a bit with guard vs Warr vs ele or maybe squeeze a backline build into the comp, but you are correct that it requires a somewhat rigid setup to work properly.

-Whats up with the second rate oil? Yeah, bountiful is expensive, but the stat gain op, suck it up.

Notice that I’m using sigil of concentration. That sigil bumps me up to 110% duration on swap. As long as I keep swapping weapons (which I do), I maintain overcapped duration. Bountiful oil is unneeded, so I use the normal oil instead.

-If this build is support not damage why Commanders/knights over Wanders/Soldiers. (Even then 56% at 50% Rate/damage Vrs 11k hp and 300power.)

Honestay, those would work absolutely fine too. In fact, it might be even more optimal than Commanders. The true reason I’m using Commanders is because it’s what I’ve got for PvE raids too, but those stats are completely acceptable alternatives.

-Lastly, as great as Sword is the ranged harassment and clone generation of Staff’s cds out weigh Focus alone.

Staff has basically nothing in the way of “ranged harassment”. Once you drop chaos storm, you’re left with wet noodle bouncing projectile autoattacks. Clone generation is completely useless in a group fight, so there is absolutely no good reason to use staff here.

If your lucky enough not to have to run Veil i like Arcane Thievery or Phantasmal Disenchater. As far as elite skills go its hard to wrong for Mesmer. Well for open field, TW for tight spaces, MoA for GvG/scrims. Even MI can be goodish.

Arcane Thievery is total garbage, but pDisenchanter is a good utility. The problem is that dropping blink for that is a total non-starter. Blink is simply too essential for mobility and safety to give up.

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

.You might consider using a Sigil of Draining because your builds’ aoe CC potential is quite high and a good Tides of Time or Gravity well can get you a really nice amount of health back.
I totally agree that Energy/Concentration is a great option though.
~ Me Games Ma

Sigil of draining is an interesting option, but dropping either concentration or energy for it is a very hard sell.

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Posted by: Justine.6351

Justine.6351

Use power block. More utility and more dmg sources for slow procing. Also makes use of your condition duration.

I think you must be a bit confused, as power block doesn’t apply any conditions. I am using delayed reactions, the slow on interrupt trait. I prefer mental torment over power block because it provides more reliable damage.

Pickup scepter and pair it with focus. Use into the void and burn multiple people with confusing images. Also comes with a free block. Will also place clones at range (cannons and stuff too) for setting up shatters.

Confusing images, like greatsword, has very clunky targeting. I don’t view the slight damage it provides to be worth losing the cleaving damage of the sword auto and the defense of blurred frenzy.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block
unless the wiki is outdated it applies weakness.

The reason I suggested scepter isn’t about yay more dmg, its about different type of dmg with a ranged laser beam instead of ONLY melee cleave. With atleast a 10sec CD on blurred frenzy there is no losing defense by swapping out of sword and you gain a block or a blinding bolt.

If you don’t want to try anything else with build hey that’s fine but ya if you are unwilling to take anyones suggestions and try them while behaving like this build is the be-all-end-all expect the thread to become a build-defending battle if it hasn’t become that already.

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block
unless the wiki is outdated it applies weakness.

Ah, you’re quite right about that. I don’t really consider the weakness to be a particularly attractive part of that trait though, the other aspects of it are significantly more powerful. In general, the choice of power block vs mental torment is primarily consistent but smaller damage amp vs a conditional but larger damage spike + utility. I personally prefer that consistency, but power block is definitely a usable alternative. I’ll probably edit in some variations to the build based on the feedback I’ve been getting here.

The reason I suggested scepter isn’t about yay more dmg, its about different type of dmg with a ranged laser beam instead of ONLY melee cleave. With atleast a 10sec CD on blurred frenzy there is no losing defense by swapping out of sword and you gain a block or a blinding bolt.

Well, it’s not just about cooldowns though, it’s about having the skill available if you need it. Still, the biggest downside of scepter is the lack of melee cleave. While you’re right that the beam is a different type of damage, that’s not a good thing here. In a group, you want to be putting focused cleave in front of the melee ball to kill people as you pass over them, and scepter is unable to do that.

If you don’t want to try anything else with build hey that’s fine but ya if you are unwilling to take anyones suggestions and try them while behaving like this build is the be-all-end-all expect the thread to become a build-defending battle if it hasn’t become that already.

I’m regularly discussing viable alternatives that people are bringing up in this thread. Take a look at my discussion on greatsword, power block, or wanderers gear. Scepter simply isn’t one of those viable alternatives in my opinion. It isn’t capable of some important things that you want to have in a functioning melee party.

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Posted by: Ballads.2509

Ballads.2509

-Whats up with the second rate oil? Yeah, bountiful is expensive, but the stat gain op, suck it up.

Notice that I’m using sigil of concentration. That sigil bumps me up to 110% duration on swap. As long as I keep swapping weapons (which I do), I maintain overcapped duration. Bountiful oil is unneeded, so I use the normal oil instead.

-If this build is support not damage why Commanders/knights over Wanders/Soldiers. (Even then 56% at 50% Rate/damage Vrs 11k hp and 300power.)

Honestay, those would work absolutely fine too. In fact, it might be even more optimal than Commanders. The true reason I’m using Commanders is because it’s what I’ve got for PvE raids too, but those stats are completely acceptable alternatives.

Self-over capping boon-duration is just bad. Gear/food/stat optimization is what takes a build from “playable” to “meta.” Leftover PvE raid gear isn’t going to cut it, and wow you run a ton of toughness for pve. You have to get the gear right if your going to share/recommend it as a finished build. I’ve personally had very little success with commanders gear in WvW. Wanderer’s stats just fit the current meta and what you are trying to do with this build better.
Here is your build with optimzed Stats( not counting Facet) – http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAs+dnsIClphVoBGoBEgiFYjq+XP2m9sG+hjjMAugcD-T1xHQBVUJ4PU+Fu9Hon6PA4kAkvHAA50LQKgMnaB-w

Not running Chaos line, focus might be better then staff. Staff may have a kitten auto attack, but Phase Retreat is our best mobility skill after blink, and i think you undervalue the ability to generate a ranged phantasm/clone to shatter.

Arcane thievery is for vrs other organised open field or gvg/scrims and acts as another Corrupt boon, on paper the phat is way better, in play i have had better luck with AT. I wouldn’t run it w/o Chaos line tho.
I guess there we are. This is (well the Optimized Version i linked above) a good commander’s group build. For Any other group set up I would use Chaos>Dom and Staff>Focus.

(edited by Ballads.2509)

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Posted by: Justine.6351

Justine.6351

Going wanderer/soldier is overkill. There is such a thing as too tanky.

I run Commander armor/weapons with Wanderer Trinkets. Even that is probably too tanky but it makes the build layout easy to follow.

If I tailored it to me,

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAsd7ensIClphVoBGoBEgiFYj6sG+hjjMAugXq+XP2mF-TFCEQB8T9nIcEAAwDAgkKBB4JBYiK/g3+DsT/ApAycYE-w

Honestly think the boon and energy sigils are not really needed. 77% boon duration is practically no different than lol 110%. As for energy sigils, this build already has so many i-frames. Might aswell shift some non-gear stat reliant dmg back into it while providing different survivability in the form of healing.

17k hp is begging to get bug crunched. Its why I run some wanderer gear even if it does trim precision.

You may not like scepter but I’ve run around with only sword and it has got to be the most boring/inpotent play ever and I’ve played staff guardian. As for not having defensive skill when you need it, its why I run sword with focus, scepter with shield so I always have a hard defensive skill available on my weapon bar.

But that’s if I was forced to run this, I may try it anyhow though as aoe invulnerability seems cool.

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

Sorry, but I don’t see how this build can be effective in a meaningful way.

Well, if your numbers were correct I would agree [snip]

Quite a bit more impressive? [snip]

Neither of you are accurate.

Pyro you can’t give distortion ever 4 seconds the share trait has kitten icd.
At best you have 14%-20% damage reduction over time if combat is steady

And Ansau your method of realistic battle analysis is lacking. They are clearly on ts. The elapsed time between shares is highly variable because it depends on the judgement of the Mesmer and the commander. 8% is a meaningless percentage.

Mathematically one can easily see that every 7 seconds is possible even out of combat

60,
53, 28
44, 21, 24
37, 14, 17, 24
30, 7, 10, 17, 24
23, 28, 3, 10, 17 <- here is where the first skill comes off cooldown.
16, 21, 24, 3, 10
9, 14, 17, 24, 3
2, 7, 10, 17, 24
60, 0, 3, 10, 17 <- here is where the chain repeats

x,x,x,x,x = distortion, signet of ether, signet of inspiration, signet of midnight, illusionary inspiration

Yes some signets have a cast time that wasn’t figured into the above numbers because 1s< of cast time is meaningless when someone has even pitiful uptimes on alacrity and quickness.

Based on his build that only way for Pyro to be unable to share exactly every 7 seconds is to not shatter at all.

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Posted by: Oslaf Beinir.5842

Oslaf Beinir.5842

my guild runs 3 mesmers, 2 use a very similar build except its minstrel gear instead of commander’s and sometimes even using well heal (good group heal and cleanse) and replacing blink with Nullfield/MoC when needed

the build takes some skill and team coordination with your group to pull off

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Posted by: Ballads.2509

Ballads.2509

my guild runs 3 mesmers, 2 use a very similar build except its minstrel gear instead of commander’s and sometimes even using well heal (good group heal and cleanse) and replacing blink with Nullfield/MoC when needed

the build takes some skill and team coordination with your group to pull off

Interesting, the return on healing power seems so small for us, but the gains in high regen ticks might tip the scale it if you min/maxed. Like full-healtard, Something like (counted facet for boon cap to allow moar Healing) http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAs+dncfCVphVoBGoBEgiFYjiMAugXquXP2m9sG+hjD-T1hXABheSAdA6+AAiV9HoVCmiWBA2fABlfkCwv9WA-w

(edited by Ballads.2509)

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

Not running Chaos line, focus might be better then staff. Staff may have a kitten auto attack, but Phase Retreat is our best mobility skill after blink, and i think you undervalue the ability to generate a ranged phantasm/clone to shatter.

Phase retreat is definitely good mobility, but you don’t generally need more mobility than blink and occasional uses of iLeap. The value of having a ranged phantasm or clone to shatter is nonexistent though. The only thing that could be used for is f5, and you don’t need extra Illusions to do an effective f5 combo if you’re quick.

Arcane thievery is for vrs other organised open field or gvg/scrims and acts as another Corrupt boon, on paper the phat is way better, in play i have had better luck with AT. I wouldn’t run it w/o Chaos line tho.

AT is just so inferior compared to corrupt boon though. Yeah, it does work…but it’s hardly powerful. 3 boons on a cooldown 3 times as long isn’t something to make me too excited.

Going wanderer/soldier is overkill. There is such a thing as too tanky.

17k hp is begging to get bug crunched. Its why I run some wanderer gear even if it does trim precision.

Potentially true. It really depends on personal experience. Personally, I’m fine with full commander gear and 17k hp. I almost never die unless I really screw something up, so there’s no personal need to tank up more. Other people will have different experiences. If you don’t feel comfortable without more hp, then by all means grab some wanderer’s gear to fill it out a bit more.

Honestly think the boon and energy sigils are not really needed. 77% boon duration is practically no different than lol 110%. As for energy sigils, this build already has so many i-frames. Might aswell shift some non-gear stat reliant dmg back into it while providing different survivability in the form of healing.

I’m definitely reluctant to give up my energy sigils, but you honestly may be right about them being unnecessary. I’ll have to hunt down a weapon with a sigil of draining equipped to test out how that feels.

You may not like scepter but I’ve run around with only sword and it has got to be the most boring/inpotent play ever and I’ve played staff guardian. As for not having defensive skill when you need it, its why I run sword with focus, scepter with shield so I always have a hard defensive skill available on my weapon bar.

I think we may just need to agree to disagree here. I’m very much not a fan of the zero cleave issue on scepter, so I see that as a very substantial downside that I’m not willing to accept.

@Daniel Handler: 25% uptime is the theoretical maximum. The icd of the trait ticks down while the distortion is active, so once the distortion ends there is only 4 seconds remaining on the icd. This allows you a pattern of 4s down and 1s up; 25% uptime. That’s obviously not quite realistic, but it is the theoretical maximum.

(edited by Fay.2357)

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Posted by: MidoriMarch.8067

MidoriMarch.8067

Introduction

Well, it’s been a while since I’ve posted a build guide here. Between the trait reworks and the substantially larger pool of people exploring builds, having a build actually unique enough to discuss in a guide is a rather rare thing. This build is for organized group WvW and is what I consider to be the Holy Grail of Mesmer WvW builds. It provides usable and powerful utility that truly feels good and enjoyable to play, which to me is the perfect build.

Mesmer has never had good damage, so we’ve attempted to make up for that by providing strong utility. Unfortunately, that has always taken the form of either one-off skills with long cooldowns and questionable impact (portal and veil) or overpowered gimmicks that require zero skill or coordination to be monstrously powerful (old boonshare). The build I’m presenting here provides powerful defensive and offensive utility in a form that requires both personally skilled play and effective group coordination to be fully effective.

Overview

This build is designed for use in an organized WvW group. If you try and use this in pugs, you’re going to have a bad time. If you try and use this without your group being aware and on board, you’re going to have a bad time.

This build is designed to do 2 primary things: share boons and share distortion. You accomplish this through the use of signets with boon duration gear while being supported by the appropriate team composition.

The Build

Traits
Domination: Rending Shatter, Blurred Inscriptions, Mental Torment

Inspiration: Medic’s Feedback, Restorative Illusions, Illusionary Inspiration

Chronomancer: Delayed Reactions, Improved Alacrity, Seize the Moment

Domination is chosen primarily for the signet trait. Traited signets are the highest frequency way to produce distortion. Rending Shatter is primarily taken because the other two are pretty useless. Mental Torment is taken for the same reason.

Inspiration is chosen for the obvious defensive utility, but also because it enables the distortion share through the minor trait Inspiring Distortion. Medic’s Feedback is a fantastic trait in WvW groups as well.

Lastly, Chronomancer is taken for reasons that I probably shouldn’t need to explain. Delayed reactions is taken because it’s the only trait that has an effect, even if that effect is rare. Same thing for Improved Alacrity, since you do get alacrity from shatters. Take Seize the Moment because it provides on-demand access to quickness that “primes” your boons prior to using Signet of Inspiration.

Weapons: Sword/Shield + Focus

I use double mainhand sword because blurred frenzy is by far the strongest mainhand defensive skill we have. Offhand shield is incredibly strong, and offhand focus is the best offhand other than shield for group play.

Utility Skills
Heal: Signet

Utilities: Blink, Signet of Midnight, Signet of Inspiration

Elite: Gravity Well

The focus on signets here is to proc distortion as often as possible. The heal signet also has the extremely handy effect of refreshing your shield block, so that enables a lot of defensive capability. Blink allows you to get out of sticky situations, and gravity well is simply the best elite for group play unless you specifically need the MI stealth.

But Pyro, my commander says I need to use Veil!

Your commander is stuck in the past and should feel bad. Think about actual situations in WvW. How many times have you actually been caught off guard by another group because of a Veil? It’s obvious when groups use it, it’s obvious where they’re going during it, and literally nobody is surprised by a veiled group unless you’re just afk ramming a gate without paying attention to anything. It’s a garbage skill that was useful years ago due to culling and has stuck around because critical thinking is apparently not a strong point of most drivers.

But Pyro, you don’t have portal either!

That’s true. Portal, unlike Veil, is a legitimately powerful and useful skill. However, its pool of useful situations is exceedingly limited. Due to this, I don’t keep portal on my bar; Mesmer utilities are simply too valuable to have a slot go mostly unused. If we’re approaching a situation that could benefit from portal, the driver will ask for it and I’ll swap Signet of Midnight for portal (and usually gravity well for MI at the same time).

l2p full zerker and u dont need this aids bunker

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

l2p full zerker and u dont need this aids bunker

Always glad to accept some well reasoned and intelligent criticism. I’m pleased you made this invaluable contribution to the discussion here.

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Posted by: DeathReign.7821

DeathReign.7821

25% uptime is the theoretical maximum. The icd of the trait ticks down while the distortion is active, so once the distortion ends there is only 4 seconds remaining on the icd. This allows you a pattern of 4s down and 1s up; 25% uptime. That’s obviously not quite realistic, but it is the theoretical maximum.

This might be a little pedantic, but isn’t that 20% uptime? Every 5 seconds, you have 1 second of invulnerability, so 1/5 = 20% uptime, right?

Kiss the chaos.

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

25% uptime is the theoretical maximum. The icd of the trait ticks down while the distortion is active, so once the distortion ends there is only 4 seconds remaining on the icd. This allows you a pattern of 4s down and 1s up; 25% uptime. That’s obviously not quite realistic, but it is the theoretical maximum.

This might be a little pedantic, but isn’t that 20% uptime? Every 5 seconds, you have 1 second of invulnerability, so 1/5 = 20% uptime, right?

…yes. yeah, that’s 20%, not 25. My bad entirely.

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

I’ve edited in some notes about alternative gearing selections with the sigil of draining and using wanderer’s gear instead of commander’s.

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Posted by: Daniel Handler.4816

Daniel Handler.4816

25% uptime is the theoretical maximum. The icd of the trait ticks down while the distortion is active, so once the distortion ends there is only 4 seconds remaining on the icd. This allows you a pattern of 4s down and 1s up; 25% uptime. That’s obviously not quite realistic, but it is the theoretical maximum.

This might be a little pedantic, but isn’t that 20% uptime? Every 5 seconds, you have 1 second of invulnerability, so 1/5 = 20% uptime, right?

…yes. yeah, that’s 20%, not 25. My bad entirely.

I accept your apology. See that it doesn’t happen again.

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Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.

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Posted by: Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

people always use portal for bombs, but it could be used defensively as well.
also 67% boon duration should be good if you account for 33% from your rev.
not using gs seems silly as well, since if you are frontlining focus is pretty much useless. the pull is nice and all, the reflect guy will die instantly, but this doesn’t justify missing out on gs.

Team Deathmatch for PvP – Raise the AoE cap for WvW – More unique events for PvE

(edited by Stand The Wall.6987)

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Posted by: Fay.2357

Fay.2357

people always use portal for bombs, but it could be used defensively as well.

That’s very true. Dropping a portal in a safe area for a quick extraction is a solid last-ditch defensive strategy if you want to go that route. Most groups won’t tend to do that just because of how much of a hard disengage it is, but if you’re anticipating something going very wrong it’s a powerful option.

also 67% boon duration should be good if you account for 33% from your rev.

You don’t want to rely on the rev for boon duration. They’re consuming their energy pretty quickly with upkeep of resistance since SoI can’t maintain it more than about 40% of the time. While they will have the boon duration facet up sometimes, it’s not a priority for them. Because of that you need to be self-sufficient for your boon production.

not using gs seems silly as well, since if you are frontlining focus is pretty much useless. the pull is nice and all, the reflect guy will die instantly, but this doesn’t justify missing out on gs.

There’s a few reasons why I don’t use GS. Firstly, the pull on focus is immensely strong. It strips a stack of stability in an aoe at far longer range than the greatsword 5 or it provides an extremely useful pull, whereas greatsword 5 is a radial knockback instead. Additionally, frontline damage is dependent on cleave damage in front of the melee group. Greatsword can’t provide this at all. You have a long cooldown gtaoe, a targeted projectile, and then a targeted autoattack. Sword, on the other hand, has the cleave that the frontline needs. Additionally, sword has blurred frenzy, which is invaluable for the defensive utility it provides when you really need it.