Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

I’ve been getting a lot of messages in game recently asking me for my build, so I decided I would just post it here for anyone who wants a different yet more rewarding (imo) play style for necromancers.

Traits: 30(VI,X,XII) / 15(IV) / 10(II) / 0 / 15(VI)

Runes: 5/6 Eagle – 1/6 Divinity

Sigils: Air (Fire)/Bloodlust on daggers, Force on staff

Amulet: Knights (Berserker Jewel)

Utilities: Consume Conditions (a must in any build imo), Blood Is Power (Spectral Walk), Signet Of Undeath, Well Of Suffering, Lich Elite

Build Guide: http://tinyurl.com/byj5vnd

Many people ask me why go melee on a necro with so many options for range. The damage on necro daggers is insane especially when you add quickness to that (rage sigil) you can drop someone in no time at all. With the massive amounts of condi clear in this game I have always had more success with straight up damage which a power necro has a ton of.

Another issue many people have is why would I take dagger as an offhand for a power build. In my opinion dagger offhand is a must of almost any necro build in pvp. The blind with a condition transfer that also bounces can help so much. Not to mention dagger 5 gives this build more aoe and weakness. Weakness is a highly underrated condition that can change fights against rangers/engis that have high endurance regens.

To be successful with this build you must use DS as often as you can. Being power with high crit (70% with fury) makes DS really shine. You must use dark path (DS #2) as much as you can for a gap closer/chill, this combined with staff and dagger #4 condi transfers getting kited should not be an issue for you.

Most people I have seen using dagger necro in pvp usually run around just spamming dagger #1. While that is the main source of our damage you must make sure you use all the skills at the proper times. When you engage someone try this for heavy burst:

Blood Is Power -> DS(pop in and out for fury) ->Dark Pact(dagger#3) -> Well Of Suffering – >Life Siphon. If the target isn’t dead at this point just nuke down with dagger #1.

This build is very strong in 1v1’s but it is also amazing in team play with the right players aiding you. If you run with a staff guardian who might stacks and gives you stability (25 might stacks with blood is power) and an ele who can give you shocking aura when you’re getting focused and peel targets off of you some pretty amazing things can be done.

My favorite part about this build has to be the borderline OPness of Time Warp + Lich. This can literally drop a team in a matter of seconds with other players attacking them. 4k+ crits on a target every half second or so.

The point I’m really trying to make here is to give it a try if you’re interested and think outside of the box when playing a necro. I feel that the standard now for necro is a straight up condi build, which is not only boring to play imo, but also a little mindless. This will add some fun to necro (I believe power was the way necro was meant to be played, all our skills mesh much better with high power,crit).

Anyway if you need any tips on playing this build successfully in tpvp (paids) feel free to message me in game, I will be more than happy to help.

-QT Khalifa

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

(edited by Khalifahaze.6045)

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: Luke.4562

Luke.4562

Yet playing this build months ago, it’s funny, but not competitive; i explain why: with berserking amulet and Thief runes, you won’t have more than 900 – 1000 toguhness, that means youre a dead man walking, not even death shroud will save ya, smart and experienced players won’t have pity for you.

Later gonna add some suggestions..

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

Yet playing this build months ago, it’s funny, but not competitive; i explain why: with berserking amulet and Thief runes, you won’t have more than 900 – 1000 toguhness, that means youre a dead man walking, not even death shroud will save ya, smart and experienced players won’t have pity for you.

Later gonna add some suggestions..

Hardly the case, I run this in paids every day and have a ton of success with this. Knowing when to dodge etc will help you survive longer. 1000 toughness is really not a problem with this buid. I have 27k hp so with full DS you have a massive amount of life. Think of playing it as you would a thief or warrior, you can’t just run in otherwise you’ll get demolished. Picking when to engage and placement are very important. If you believe this build isn’t viable that’s fine but I will tell you that you are wrong because I play this daily with incredible success.

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

(edited by Khalifahaze.6045)

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: Luke.4562

Luke.4562

I didn’t say its not viable, i said it’s easy to counter (not competitive), so vs an experienced player you are going to get splatted.
27k hp with Thief Runes in s/tPVP isn’t possible. Massive life still isn’t enough, because you will get full damage from opponents (once got 40k damage in 5 seconds by a thief whith more damage reduction).
Owning bunches of noobs who don’t know how to counter you isn’t a success, i can say i have big success with even Minion Master builds in that case.
Another error you do is using Life Siphon on a rooted target, that’s the case in which you have to spam you #1 Dagger and use Life Siphon for kiters and while closing distances with your target.
Another critic i have to do is the use of the Death Shroud for gaining fury: if you enter DS just to proc it, you will have 10 seconds in which you can’t soak burst damage, an experienced player can easily daze and totally burst you away.
I don’t even like the Lich form, because youre yet squishy, and everybody will almost focus you; you can’t go in Death Shroud neither, so the Elite gets countered easily.
I agree it’s useful when nobody focus you and you’re able to erase away your opponents freely, but it’s not a situation you will see often (the more in tPVP in which skill and competition counts more).

Another point, you don’t have Boons removal (Well of Corruption), i can’t say how you will take down Elementalists or Guardians.
You don’t have a stunbreaker to get safe (80% times you will be fighting in the mob and you have no escape mechanisms).

I suggest to take out 5 points in curse and putting them in Soul Reaping, this way you will enhance your crit damage and get Soul Marks, Master of Terror, or Mark of Revival.
Take out Terror in Curse and bring in Reaper’s Precision.

This build is funny, but can’t allow you as necromancer to get your potential (even if necro has not all that potential), because thieves play the same way and have more survivability and utilities for their team.

Good Luck!

EDITed: Verified the 27k matter. It’s my fault.

(edited by Luke.4562)

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: Moderator

Moderator

Some postings that were against the rules of this forum have been removed. Please remember to stay on topic and to keep these forums a productive and friendly place by posting in a respectful tone.

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

Yeah no hard feeling guys, was just posting this to save me having to type my build out 5 times a day

Most people I give this too look at me like “kitten is this”. It works for me and hopefully it can work for others!

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: hackks.3687

hackks.3687

I’m curious how your group handles boon stripping. most people are inclined to think the two biggest reasons to bring a necro are for the boon stripping and uber condi spam. Neither of which are abundantly present in your build. Lich form will give you a full aoe boon strip but that’s a long CD between strips – not that boons will do much to save people from a Lich standing in a TW :P

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

Insane burst damage (lich form, daggers with haste) will make boons not that big of a deal. We run a super heavy burst comp. People underestimate the damage a power necro puts out. It is on par with warrior/thief etc it’s all how you build your character.

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: hackks.3687

hackks.3687

Insane burst damage (lich form, daggers with haste) will make boons not that big of a deal. We run a super heavy burst comp. People underestimate the damage a power necro puts out. It is on par with warrior/thief etc it’s all how you build your character.

that was sort of my guess. specially after you mention Lich + TW. To that effect though don’t you think you could get more out of using the Focus for the extra vuln stacking and LF gain? I used be a dagger/dagger necro till I got used to using the Focus, now I don’t think I can go back.

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

Eh i prefer dagger, I’ve tried focus and warhorn and I still like dagger offhand better.

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: QSpec.4298

QSpec.4298

So given that you are a well respected Necro, what do think are the Necro’s strengths and weaknesses?

Do you have any complaints (aside from the obvious like minion AI) or things you wish would be buffed, changed, etc?

It has been mentioned that the trait line seems a little ‘meh’. Thoughts?

Anyway, thanks for the build. I aim to try it out tomorrow.

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

Necro is a very interesting class because almost all of our attacks not only do base damage (which in a power crit build hit very hard), but almost all of them can stack condi’s. I feel necro is very strong in putting heavy pressure on the enemy team. In this current build my condis tick for around 80 so I mean its not all that much lower than a full condi build. Those condi’s on top of all the burst damage can really hit the enemy team hard. I feel this is the necro’s place, moderate to heavy damage but always heavy pressure depending on how you build your character. Rez sig is also awesome, can’t imagine doing tpvp without it.

I feel we are very weak in the mobility field, but anet has already stated that is their philosophy on the necro, to not be a mobile class.

Our survivability is a little low (unless your some style of bunker necro), but this is a team game a that’s where your team comes into play (ele especially can be amazing).

What I would like to see (minion ai is obvious) is a fix to life siphon. I feel that if life siphon were to scale with healing power a build like mine would become even more viable. This fix would give us the survivability that we desire. We can only hope at this point.

Besides that I feel that necros are really in a good spot, pretty balanced imo. Just bug fixes etc now.

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

(edited by Khalifahaze.6045)

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

Heres a video you can watch for a general idea of how I play, it’s only hotjoin hero stuff for the most part, but it will give you some idea of what I do.

Part starts at 10:55

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: hackks.3687

hackks.3687

Necro is a very interesting class because almost all of our attacks not only do base damage (which in a power crit build hit very hard), but almost all of them can stack condi’s. I feel necro is very strong in putting heavy pressure on the enemy team. In this current build my condis tick for around 80 so I mean its not all that much lower than a full condi build. Those condi’s on top of all the burst damage can really hit the enemy team hard. I feel this is the necro’s place, moderate to heavy damage but always heavy pressure depending on how you build your character.

I feel we are very weak in the mobility field, but anet has already stated that is their philosophy on the necro, to not be a mobile class.

Our survivability is a little low (unless your some style of bunker necro), but this is a team game a that’s where your team comes into play (ele especially can be amazing).

What I would like to see (minion ai is obvious) is a fix to life siphon. I feel that if life siphon were to scale with healing power a build like mine would become even more viable. This fix would give us the survivability that we desire. We can only hope at this point.

Besides that I feel that necros are really in a good spot, pretty balanced imo. Just bug fixes etc now.

I would argue the whole blood magic tree needs looking at in terms of scaling. it’s obvious the bulk of our staying power is supposed to be derived from the vampiric and syphon traits. not so ironically though they reside in our Vitality tree and given our already exorbitant HP pool it’s not surprising the heals are so pathetic. Sooner or later ANet is going have to deal with the Necro HP pool. Who knows how long they’ll hold out though.

Agreed on the rest. Though I still want 8s of stability on Spectral Armor and some reductions on a few cast times.

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: restoration.2806

restoration.2806

My one question that I have is that when you enter DS just to proc the fury does the fury proc immediately or start when you exit DS?

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

Necro is a very interesting class because almost all of our attacks not only do base damage (which in a power crit build hit very hard), but almost all of them can stack condi’s. I feel necro is very strong in putting heavy pressure on the enemy team. In this current build my condis tick for around 80 so I mean its not all that much lower than a full condi build. Those condi’s on top of all the burst damage can really hit the enemy team hard. I feel this is the necro’s place, moderate to heavy damage but always heavy pressure depending on how you build your character.

I feel we are very weak in the mobility field, but anet has already stated that is their philosophy on the necro, to not be a mobile class.

Our survivability is a little low (unless your some style of bunker necro), but this is a team game a that’s where your team comes into play (ele especially can be amazing).

What I would like to see (minion ai is obvious) is a fix to life siphon. I feel that if life siphon were to scale with healing power a build like mine would become even more viable. This fix would give us the survivability that we desire. We can only hope at this point.

Besides that I feel that necros are really in a good spot, pretty balanced imo. Just bug fixes etc now.

I would argue the whole blood magic tree needs looking at in terms of scaling. it’s obvious the bulk of our staying power is supposed to be derived from the vampiric and syphon traits. not so ironically though they reside in our Vitality tree and given our already exorbitant HP pool it’s not surprising the heals are so pathetic. Sooner or later ANet is going have to deal with the Necro HP pool. Who knows how long they’ll hold out though.

Agreed on the rest. Though I still want 8s of stability on Spectral Armor and some reductions on a few cast times.

Yeah I agree with you here, to me it seems like the whole blood magic/life siphon thing was something they threw on last minute because it’s a signature necro feature. It seems that they completely forgot about it, each class balance patch we see never seems to address any of our two trait trees that are more or less useless (death and blood magic).

I also would like to see stability added to spectral armor, right now it’s just not worth taking for 6 secs of protection with such a massive cool down (still massive even when traited). 8 secs seems a bit long but who knows maybe they’ll give us some love for once.

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

My one question that I have is that when you enter DS just to proc the fury does the fury proc immediately or start when you exit DS?

It starts as soon as you enter DS, that’s why in that video when I start my burst combo you will see me go in and then instantly out of DS. This is so I can get the full duration of fury on non-DS moves.

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

(edited by Khalifahaze.6045)

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: Luke.4562

Luke.4562

Imho with this build the real problem are many (over those i mentioned before).
1)The low survivability, we should get access to stability, more touhgness and a way to refill the Life Force more quickly (starting with no LF is a great problem, cuts off 1/3 of our potential).
2)More mobility or a quick way to escape (usually going with Wurm and Spectral Walk, but aren’t enough); the Blood Trait that enable us to run faster requires 20 points, and putting points in that tree atm isn’t a good idea (plus won’t waste utility slot for Signet of Locust).
3)As a burster build we can’t dispel Boons on the target with 100% succes chances… Corrupt Boon doesn’t seem to work always, it has some bug in it, and a cooldown too much high; Well of Corruption can be easily be avoided and lasts just 5 seconds with a ridicle long cooldown; the Trait Chill of Death is bugged; Spinal Shivers has a long cd and requires us to rely on the Focus.

Over that i think it’s a build that comes out “randomly” from traits, not a build as Conditionmancer, for which Anet set traits specifically. There isn’t a design under it.
The fact is Anet shouldn’t fix or redesign the Necro to make actual builds working, but redesign the Necro to have more builds being viable, competitive, dynamic (modifiable).

I’d like to see if anybody is alright with my idea.

2 questions to Khalifahaze:
1)did you try to run with Fear Traited in both Soul reaping and Curses to use it as a “burst” system? What’s your hopinion? (With this build i’d like the idea to ChainCC the target to burst him down)
2) why don’t you run Divinity Runes?

PS: i’m also undecided on the Sigils to use on weapons:
- Sigil of Superior Air offers more burst damage
- Sigil of Superior Blood offers more sustain but i can’t decide if it’s reliable
- Sigil of Superior Nullification to try to fix the strip boons problem.
- Sigil of Superior Doom to have more Poison control.

(edited by Luke.4562)

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: Amityel.5324

Amityel.5324

terror and fear dmg scales with condition dmg not power….so its useless for burst build

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

terror and fear dmg scales with condition dmg not power….so its useless for burst build

Yeah pretty much this, the damage on fear is pretty pathetic in a power build (193 or so I believe).

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: hackks.3687

hackks.3687

use might stacking to pump up condition dmg and terror can be a killer. My build starts with 175 condition dmg but gets up over 1k with 20+ stacks of might and a fully charged sigil of minor corruption. Fairly common for me to get 2x terror ticks around 1k and unmitigated due to it being a condition >:)

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

Imho with this build the real problem are many (over those i mentioned before).
1)The low survivability, we should get access to stability, more touhgness and a way to refill the Life Force more quickly (starting with no LF is a great problem, cuts off 1/3 of our potential).
2)More mobility or a quick way to escape (usually going with Wurm and Spectral Walk, but aren’t enough); the Blood Trait that enable us to run faster requires 20 points, and putting points in that tree atm isn’t a good idea (plus won’t waste utility slot for Signet of Locust).
3)As a burster build we can’t dispel Boons on the target with 100% succes chances… Corrupt Boon doesn’t seem to work always, it has some bug in it, and a cooldown too much high; Well of Corruption can be easily be avoided and lasts just 5 seconds with a ridicle long cooldown; the Trait Chill of Death is bugged; Spinal Shivers has a long cd and requires us to rely on the Focus.

Over that i think it’s a build that comes out “randomly” from traits, not a build as Conditionmancer, for which Anet set traits specifically. There isn’t a design under it.
The fact is Anet shouldn’t fix or redesign the Necro to make actual builds working, but redesign the Necro to have more builds being viable, competitive, dynamic (modifiable).

I’d like to see if anybody is alright with my idea.

2 questions to Khalifahaze:
1)did you try to run with Fear Traited in both Soul reaping and Curses to use it as a “burst” system? What’s your hopinion? (With this build i’d like the idea to ChainCC the target to burst him down)
2) why don’t you run Divinity Runes?

PS: i’m also undecided on the Sigils to use on weapons:
- Sigil of Superior Air offers more burst damage
- Sigil of Superior Blood offers more sustain but i can’t decide if it’s reliable
- Sigil of Superior Nullification to try to fix the strip boons problem.
- Sigil of Superior Doom to have more Poison control.

I’ve tried going more into curse and SR with the build-style I’m trying to run. To be quite honest I think I have achieved the perfect balance for a d/d build with the sort of weird placement of a lot of our traits. Don’t need to spec into curses fear (terror) because it does not scale with power at all, better to get the extra enfeebling blood when you pop DS right next to someone (crits about 1k +bleed/weakness). Already having 2 fears and an immobilize can be a nasty cc chain atm with a dark pact in between.

I don’t use divinity runes because I have tested the damage I get with them vs thief and the output is about the same if not less than thief. Thief runes also give me some condi dmg which always helps and more crit which I need.

As far as your sigils go I have tried them all, I used to run fire but I switched to rage recently. The damage of dagger#1 with quickness is unreal. I’m talking drop someone 100-0 long before your dagger #3 wears off. With 70% crit I’m getting the quickness proc pretty much every time it’s off CD (45 sec). I have been playing d/d necro since release and have tried everything under the sun. I can honestly say this is the set up you want as a melee necro imo. Others prefer different traits etc and that’s fine. Each player has a different play style and this build seems to suit me perfectly.

To respond to some of the points you made at the top of your post about low survivability, low mobility, and lack of boon dispell I have to say it really isn’t an issue. People seem to forget time and time again how much of a team game this is. It’s not like most other MMO’s your team is everything in this game. That being said this game was designed so classes can’t have it all. What the necro lacks your team can give you. Stability comes from your guardian, as a necro stick with your guardian as much as you can. For mobility you get swiftness from an ele or warrior. As I stated earlier burst nullifies boons. You don’t need boon removal raw damage is more powerful. I think the lack of build diversity for necro atm comes from 2 things, blood and death magic being pretty kitten right now. Fix these (minion ai included in death magic/ life siphon for blood) and you will be amazed at the different variations you would be able to achieve.

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

(edited by Khalifahaze.6045)

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

use might stacking to pump up condition dmg and terror can be a killer. My build starts with 175 condition dmg but gets up over 1k with 20+ stacks of might and a fully charged sigil of minor corruption. Fairly common for me to get 2x terror ticks around 1k and unmitigated due to it being a condition >:)

Balancing condi dmg and duration to make a fear damage build viable is just not a smart option for a necro using a build like mine. Fear can do some crazy numbers it’s just not in the cards for me atm.

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

Khalifa's PVP D/D Necro Build [Updated]

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Posted by: leman.7682

leman.7682

I’ve been running various power necro build for a long time now.

It definitely is viable, I won’t even say how many Champion Paragons felt with ‘kitten, what killed me’ to some power builds I ran.

Most recently I’ve been running D/D bone minion bomber with poison clouds popping all around. We were happy with the results.

Probably the most important thing necro and this build lack is mobility which you just need to roam and stay in the fight.

(edited by leman.7682)

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Posted by: dupie.2907

dupie.2907

Respect for sharing a build like so, going power is usually frowned upon despite being very fun and viable. I have versed you quite a lot to know you are an excellent opponent and very valuable for sharing knowledge to other necromancers. Thanks

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

Respect for sharing a build like so, going power is usually frowned upon despite being very fun and viable. I have versed you quite a lot to know you are an excellent opponent and very valuable for sharing knowledge to other necromancers. Thanks

np hope you have fun with it!

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

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Posted by: Undertow.2389

Undertow.2389

Would you use the flesh golem if he wasn’t completely brain dead half the time? I find dagger necro + flesh golem probably the best single target sustained dps in the game, when he decides to actually attack. He also cripples for you.

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

Flesh golem is nice in 1v1 and all, but I mean it gets melted in any tpvp team fight. It can have its uses but I find lich or plague much better choices.

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

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Posted by: hackks.3687

hackks.3687

use might stacking to pump up condition dmg and terror can be a killer. My build starts with 175 condition dmg but gets up over 1k with 20+ stacks of might and a fully charged sigil of minor corruption. Fairly common for me to get 2x terror ticks around 1k and unmitigated due to it being a condition >:)

Balancing condi dmg and duration to make a fear damage build viable is just not a smart option for a necro using a build like mine. Fear can do some crazy numbers it’s just not in the cards for me atm.

nah, I definitely wouldn’t build around fears and terror but given our inherent ability to shell out conditions, even in a power build, and combined with uber might stacking those terror ticks can hit for a lot. For only 10 pts in Curses it gives me the most bang for my buck with my power build. I have to augment the build a bit to get consistent dbl ticks, which isn’t quite worth it, but on some occasions it seems to tick twice for some reason even without the requisite duration increases. typical build for me is 30/10/10/0/20 with Staff + Dagger/Focus.

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Posted by: Sheobix.8796

Sheobix.8796

use might stacking to pump up condition dmg and terror can be a killer. My build starts with 175 condition dmg but gets up over 1k with 20+ stacks of might and a fully charged sigil of minor corruption. Fairly common for me to get 2x terror ticks around 1k and unmitigated due to it being a condition >:)

Balancing condi dmg and duration to make a fear damage build viable is just not a smart option for a necro using a build like mine. Fear can do some crazy numbers it’s just not in the cards for me atm.

nah, I definitely wouldn’t build around fears and terror but given our inherent ability to shell out conditions, even in a power build, and combined with uber might stacking those terror ticks can hit for a lot. For only 10 pts in Curses it gives me the most bang for my buck with my power build. I have to augment the build a bit to get consistent dbl ticks, which isn’t quite worth it, but on some occasions it seems to tick twice for some reason even without the requisite duration increases. typical build for me is 30/10/10/0/20 with Staff + Dagger/Focus.

I too like to grab the extra 10 pts. in curses sometimes when i run pvp builds. having extra little dps from fear is a nice touch, and kinda caps off a build that can use the extra 4% crit chance and bump to cond damage.

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Posted by: Zonzai.2341

Zonzai.2341

I’m not crazy! I knew (thought) DD power necro was the way to go for pvp. I haven’t been able to put it together this well but I’ve been trying to. I’d love to see some more videos from you.

Thanks a lot for this. Bookmarked.
+1 million

(edited by Zonzai.2341)

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

I’m not crazy! I knew (thought) DD power necro was the way to go for pvp. I haven’t been able to put it together this well but I’ve been trying to. I’d love to see some more videos from you.

Thanks a lot for this. Bookmarked.
+1 million

Yeah you’re not crazy it works and it’s very fun to play. I’ll try to get some more footage soon and throw something together.

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

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Posted by: Lunar Sunset.8742

Lunar Sunset.8742

Was never really a fan of my necro in pvp because of all the bad hype about them, I tried this build and I absolutely love it, really effective and it’s the first time I’ve seen over 4k damage done by my necro (not counting fractals) I’ve been having a blast owning people with this build. Thank you

50/50 GWAMM x3
Still waiting for the sequel to GW1

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Posted by: Skyro.3108

Skyro.3108

A couple of questions!

-Why BiP over Spectral Wall? 10 might stacks only gives slightly more direct damage than the 10 vulnerability stacks you get from SWall, plus SWall has the ability to provide the team protection. I feel BiP is much stronger on a condition build where you can stack a ton of conditions on enemies first and then pop BiP.

-I think spectral grasp is very good with Dagger necros. There’s so much you can do with such a long range pull with a coordinated team. What are your thoughts? I understand your utility selections since the battle rez is so powerful just wanted your general thoughts on this skill.

-I am what you call a “spite hater.” IMO the trait line is terrible. The only good skill in that line is the GM 20% under 50% dps trait but you can achieve similar DPS by using the 30 in spite and put it into curses and soul reaping and do a 0/30/10/0/30 build due to the extra crit/crit dmg and the target the weak (2% dmg/condi) and strengh of undeath (5% over 50% LF) traits. This also gives you access to GM soul reaping traits which are absolutely fantastic allowing you to have permanent fury or our only in-class access to stability.

-And why Sigil of Battle on the staff? Due to Sigil of Rage’s long cooldown doesn’t this interfere with Sigil of Battle quite often?

(edited by Skyro.3108)

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Posted by: Divinity.8041

Divinity.8041

First day on necro and this is a cool build I used to main mesmer, but am switching over.

Never knew how cool staff was. I tried a condition build before with staff and s/d and it was ok. Really enjoying this… Lich form is also crazy…

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

A couple of questions!

-Why BiP over Spectral Wall? 10 might stacks only gives slightly more direct damage than the 10 vulnerability stacks you get from SWall, plus SWall has the ability to provide the team protection. I feel BiP is much stronger on a condition build where you can stack a ton of conditions on enemies first and then pop BiP.

-I think spectral grasp is very good with Dagger necros. There’s so much you can do with such a long range pull with a coordinated team. What are your thoughts? I understand your utility selections since the battle rez is so powerful just wanted your general thoughts on this skill.

-I am what you call a “spite hater.” IMO the trait line is terrible. The only good skill in that line is the GM 20% under 50% dps trait but you can achieve similar DPS by using the 30 in spite and put it into curses and soul reaping and do a 0/30/10/0/30 build due to the extra crit/crit dmg and the target the weak (2% dmg/condi) and strengh of undeath (5% over 50% LF) traits. This also gives you access to GM soul reaping traits which are absolutely fantastic allowing you to have permanent fury or our only in-class access to stability.

-And why Sigil of Battle on the staff? Due to Sigil of Rage’s long cooldown doesn’t this interfere with Sigil of Battle quite often?

Well I use BiP because I run with a staff guardian so I can easily get 25 might stacks quite often. I have been using spectral walk more recently in its place for the added survivability. Being able to juke out a zerg that’s chasing you with spectral walk comes in very handy (also comes in handy for baiting players to overextend in tpvp so your team can kill them). Spectral wall is nice occasionally but I would much rather take spectral walk in its place (not to mention it’s incredibly easy to avoid getting hit with spectral wall).

Spectral grasp is pretty cool, but it’s harder to land and I just don’t feel it is good enough to make it onto my bar. Being that we can only choose 3 utilities I believe there are much better choices than spectral grasp.

I don’t really understand the hate you have for the spite tree, imo it’s one of the best ones we have. Spite tree adds a good amount of damage to the necro (10% mark dmg, 20% dmg to enemy below), not to mention retal.

I don’t think going 30 into curses is a good idea for a d/d build the grandmaster spite trait is too good to give up imo (combined with thief runes that’s 30% extra dmg to all targets under 50%). I have tried going 30 into SR before (30/0/10/0/30 build) and it’s pretty cool having 5 sec DS, but I just don’t feel the extra 15% crit dmg enough to justify going that far into SR. I personally believe 15 pts into SR is all you really need.

As for the sigils, sigil of rage does not effect the sigil of battle you will still get the 3 stacks of might when you switch weapons.

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

(edited by Khalifahaze.6045)

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Posted by: Skyro.3108

Skyro.3108

Thanks for the quick reply!

I’m not sure why you think 25 might stack is important. There’s no special bonus you get for having max might stacks. The first stack of might is just as beneficial as the last. I guess I’m having trouble following your logic there. DPS is DPS, wherever it comes from.

My disdain for the spite tree is completely lackluster minor traits and really only 1 very good major. My point was that with 30/30 in curses/soul reaping you actually have similar, if not more DPS due to the strong minor traits and 100% uptime on fury. That’s what makes the 5s DS trait such a strong DPS trait.

And I was jumping for joy when you said sigil of rage ICD doesn’t affect sigil of battle so I just tested it again in the mists but unfortunately it does still indeed prevent sigil of battle working

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

Thanks for the quick reply!

I’m not sure why you think 25 might stack is important. There’s no special bonus you get for having max might stacks. The first stack of might is just as beneficial as the last. I guess I’m having trouble following your logic there. DPS is DPS, wherever it comes from.

My disdain for the spite tree is completely lackluster minor traits and really only 1 very good major. My point was that with 30/30 in curses/soul reaping you actually have similar, if not more DPS due to the strong minor traits and 100% uptime on fury. That’s what makes the 5s DS trait such a strong DPS trait.

And I was jumping for joy when you said sigil of rage ICD doesn’t affect sigil of battle so I just tested it again in the mists but unfortunately it does still indeed prevent sigil of battle working

Each might stack increases your dmg, it stacks intensity so 25 might stacks add a large amount of damge for the duration of might. As far as your love for curses its arguable either way I prefer going into spite, if you like curses you have to choose what works best for you (just tried out your 0/30/10/0/30 build and the damage seems less honestly. I couldn’t get a Necrotic Slash hit much higher than 2k on a light golem where before it was in the 2300-2700 range).

Yes, my bad about the sigil you are right they do share a cooldown I wasn’t aware of. I will have to change my staff sigil.

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

(edited by Khalifahaze.6045)

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Posted by: hackks.3687

hackks.3687

Might pumps up both direct and condition dmg. as a necro there’s no escaping applying conditions (even in a power build) and in a team the staff is virtually a requirement, which does both condition dmg and direct dmg and thus both gaining a benefit from the might stacks. with 25 stacks of might you can easily push condition dmg from 200 to over 1k. so that’s nearly a 4k attack with nearly 50% crit before Fury, and 1k condition dmg – aka an kitten whoopin waiting to happen. If you run the numbers might stacking will quickly outpace any other form of +dmg.

The Curses tree offers nothing to direct dmg in terms of traits. best you can get is some utility (ground targeted wells, spectral attunement, warhorn range/cd’s). other than that the only benefit a power build receives from curses is the +Precision from the trait line.

Any Sigil with an ICD seems to share CDs. I personally opt for 2x Sigil of Battle + Sigil of Minor Corruption or Sigil of Minor Accuracy based on which amulet I’m using.

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Posted by: Skyro.3108

Skyro.3108

When I say DPS I meant average DPS. Your highest hit on a target under 50% will hit higher with 30 spite of course. You have to factor in that you are criting more often with 30 in curses. Also remember target the weak adds 2% dmg per condition, so you have to make some assumptions about that as well. For example if you assume 3 conditions and LF over 5%, that’s already a flat 11% damage bonus. If you assume the 20% damage trait when target is under 50% as a flat 10% bonus damage you can see where I am seeing similar average DPS numbers. Then the big kicker is that you can have permanent fury with the 5s DS trait which is a big average DPS booster.

For pure burst though spite is definitely superior. That’s the trade-off. Plus I use warhorn offhand so curses gives me more utility there with the warhorn trait.

Appreciate your responses though. I look forward to seeing any footage you put together!

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

When I say DPS I meant average DPS. Your highest hit on a target under 50% will hit higher with 30 spite of course. You have to factor in that you are criting more often with 30 in curses. Also remember target the weak adds 2% dmg per condition, so you have to make some assumptions about that as well. For example if you assume 3 conditions and LF over 5%, that’s already a flat 11% damage bonus. If you assume the 20% damage trait when target is under 50% as a flat 10% bonus damage you can see where I am seeing similar average DPS numbers. Then the big kicker is that you can have permanent fury with the 5s DS trait which is a big average DPS booster.

For pure burst though spite is definitely superior. That’s the trade-off. Plus I use warhorn offhand so curses gives me more utility there with the warhorn trait.

Appreciate your responses though. I look forward to seeing any footage you put together!

Yeah I agree with you here where the sustained will be higher if you build it your way, but I’m pretty much going for maximum burst in this spec. That’s why like you said 30 in spite will be superior.

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

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Posted by: hackks.3687

hackks.3687

the only +dmg modifier that 25 stacks of might won’t outpace consistently in a power build is the +20% dmg from GM in Spite and there could even be an argument that the +condition dmg is pushing the might stacks ahead of it – though why not just have both?

the frequency of having 10 or more conditions on an opponent is far too infrequent without a long deliberate set up and even then the duration of those conditions won’t provide a lengthy window to take advantage of it, specially when the opposition knows to save aoe condition clears for moments such as those.

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Posted by: Divinity.8041

Divinity.8041

Thanks for the quick reply!

I’m not sure why you think 25 might stack is important. There’s no special bonus you get for having max might stacks. The first stack of might is just as beneficial as the last. I guess I’m having trouble following your logic there. DPS is DPS, wherever it comes from.

My disdain for the spite tree is completely lackluster minor traits and really only 1 very good major. My point was that with 30/30 in curses/soul reaping you actually have similar, if not more DPS due to the strong minor traits and 100% uptime on fury. That’s what makes the 5s DS trait such a strong DPS trait.

And I was jumping for joy when you said sigil of rage ICD doesn’t affect sigil of battle so I just tested it again in the mists but unfortunately it does still indeed prevent sigil of battle working

Each might stack increases your dmg, it stacks intensity so 25 might stacks add a large amount of damge for the duration of might. As far as your love for curses its arguable either way I prefer going into spite, if you like curses you have to choose what works best for you (just tried out your 0/30/10/0/30 build and the damage seems less honestly. I couldn’t get a Necrotic Slash hit much higher than 2k on a light golem where before it was in the 2300-2700 range).

Yes, my bad about the sigil you are right they do share a cooldown I wasn’t aware of. I will have to change my staff sigil.

What are you changing to?

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

Thanks for the quick reply!

I’m not sure why you think 25 might stack is important. There’s no special bonus you get for having max might stacks. The first stack of might is just as beneficial as the last. I guess I’m having trouble following your logic there. DPS is DPS, wherever it comes from.

My disdain for the spite tree is completely lackluster minor traits and really only 1 very good major. My point was that with 30/30 in curses/soul reaping you actually have similar, if not more DPS due to the strong minor traits and 100% uptime on fury. That’s what makes the 5s DS trait such a strong DPS trait.

And I was jumping for joy when you said sigil of rage ICD doesn’t affect sigil of battle so I just tested it again in the mists but unfortunately it does still indeed prevent sigil of battle working

Each might stack increases your dmg, it stacks intensity so 25 might stacks add a large amount of damge for the duration of might. As far as your love for curses its arguable either way I prefer going into spite, if you like curses you have to choose what works best for you (just tried out your 0/30/10/0/30 build and the damage seems less honestly. I couldn’t get a Necrotic Slash hit much higher than 2k on a light golem where before it was in the 2300-2700 range).

Yes, my bad about the sigil you are right they do share a cooldown I wasn’t aware of. I will have to change my staff sigil.

What are you changing to?

Probably bloodlust sigil

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

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Posted by: Geewoody.2017

Geewoody.2017

Always awesome to see someone rockin’ a D/D build.

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

So I’ve been going over my build to see if there is anything else that I can improve on. After evaluating this build I find two flaws if you will call them that in its current state.

1) Low-ish survivability
2) Lack of effective ranged damage

After thinking about how I could fix both of these issues without changing the core of the build I was surprised at how simple the fix really was. By switching out utility slot #1 (Blood Is Power/Spectral Walk) to Epidemic it improves both of these flaws drastically.

Your staff in this build hits very hard and condi’s with might from a guardian do some awesome dps. Using epidemic in this build will offer great ranged damage and even more pressure on the enemy team than it already provides.

If you have tried this build in tpvp you will have already noticed that at times (when you’re focus target #1) you are constantly running trying to dps inbetween not getting gibbed by the enemy team. Since the damage from this build comes primarily from melee attacks epidemic gives you more ranged pressure that you lack with just staff. You will now be able to peel out of the chaotic fight in melee ranged when at low health and still do respectable damage from afar.

I know a lot of you will be skeptical about using epidemic in a non-condition build, but I assure you this is the way to go. Since this build crits so much stacking bleeds is relatively easy between staff and dagger#5 (Barbed Precision Trait). Add in condis from your ele and mesmer and there you go, you now have some good ranged pressure (not to mention epidemic cd is so low you can keep using it as melee).

The best part of epidemic has to be the downed state aoe cleaves, someone goes down → drop well → epidemic everyone trying to rez them. I assure you they won’t get that rez off.

To anyone that has been trying this build I would urge you to try this out with epidemic in place of blood is power/spectral walk, I think that you will be very happy with the results you achieve.

I would also like to thank everyone who has given me feedback on this build, you have helped me create a more finalized version.

Thanks again!

-QT Khalifa

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

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Posted by: Budchgon.2108

Budchgon.2108

Hi, i am interested in this build, woud it work for WvWvW small groups (which i mainy play) ? and even 1v1s ?

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Posted by: hackks.3687

hackks.3687

Don’t forget to Epi Dagger 3!

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

Hi, i am interested in this build, woud it work for WvWvW small groups (which i mainy play) ? and even 1v1s ?

Yes, this is a pretty strong 1v1 and small group build it’s meant for tpvp (5v5).

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer

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Posted by: Khalifahaze.6045

Khalifahaze.6045

Don’t forget to Epi Dagger 3!

^ this. Aoe root ftw!

QT Khalifa [Cute] – Necromancer