Dagger/pistol

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Posted by: Lavexis.5360

Lavexis.5360

This build is too good..need nerf before anyone can exploit it !

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Posted by: Blazer Hellsing.9184

Blazer Hellsing.9184

Worst Thief weapon set, even P/P is more useful.

Main: Thief
Alts: Warrior, Necromancer, Mesmer, Elementalist (bunker)

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Posted by: Knyx.5926

Knyx.5926

Worst Thief weapon set, even P/P is more useful.

lol that is a joke. D/P is better then D/D in everything but the full condition DB build or the full glass Steal+CnD+backstab+wait on cooldowns build

More utility, Blind and daze
Can still reach stealth through combo field and a decent teleport when it works

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Posted by: ddrake.5436

ddrake.5436

I have done auto attack with P/P in HoM and it took me 18sec to kill a medium target. 16sec with D/P.

Full burst I took the P/P to sub 10sec. D/P I took it down in less than 3sec

P/P is slow because it is depending on condition dmg and time for condition to tick, D/P is raw dmg and isn’t waiting for anything.

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Posted by: Blazer Hellsing.9184

Blazer Hellsing.9184

@Knyx:

What you said is a joke. No skilled competitive intelligent Thief player would play D/P if he is going for a burst spec, why would he? What combo field? Bring smoke utility or waste initiative on Black Powder so he can heartseeker through it while his target is 100% hp so he can get a stealth? Don’t make me laugh. D/P is the biggest fail set on the Thief in PvP, D/D does the role better. Also, how are you going to CnD with D/P?

@ddrake

P/P condition dmg? You clearly know what you are talking about.

Main: Thief
Alts: Warrior, Necromancer, Mesmer, Elementalist (bunker)

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Posted by: MidgeisGood.2153

MidgeisGood.2153

Based on your last comment im gona say you’re talking about pvp. Well guess what, thats not all what GW2 is all about. In pve it is quite good, great use of blinds, teleport for in-and-out, daze and still good damage.

You’re not the best thief in gw2, so stop acting like it

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Posted by: Stin.9781

Stin.9781

Why would you smoke cloud+ hearseeker at 100%, you just tp with #3 few basic attacks till around 50% then smoke cloud hearseeker and backstab, which finishes off, though gotta agree its not match for D/D since 2 most viable builds are on it. Though cant agree p/p is better … i find that most useless at all.

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Posted by: ddrake.5436

ddrake.5436

@MidgeisGood

… angry? I think we just all need to clarify.

@OP

what are you talking about? why do you say D/P is needing a nerf?

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Posted by: Blazer Hellsing.9184

Blazer Hellsing.9184

Based on your last comment im gona say you’re talking about pvp. Well guess what, thats not all what GW2 is all about. In pve it is quite good, great use of blinds, teleport for in-and-out, daze and still good damage.

You’re not the best thief in gw2, so stop acting like it

News flash: Everything is good in PvE, PvE is easy, I lvled till lvl 76-78 with lvl 40 items! Good damage? What do you call good damage? 2x Unload do more damage than 10-12 sec of damage from a D/P set.

Main: Thief
Alts: Warrior, Necromancer, Mesmer, Elementalist (bunker)

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

@Knyx:

What you said is a joke. No skilled competitive intelligent Thief player would play D/P if he is going for a burst spec, why would he? What combo field? Bring smoke utility or waste initiative on Black Powder so he can heartseeker through it while his target is 100% hp so he can get a stealth? Don’t make me laugh. D/P is the biggest fail set on the Thief in PvP, D/D does the role better. Also, how are you going to CnD with D/P?

i can see it being useful, if you’re not aiming for a backstab dagger (yes, that does exist). you have a free interrupt and a smoke field for survivability, a shadowstep for mobility, and heartseeker for burst. use a stealth steal for initial backstab, use high initiative regen, work from there.

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Posted by: Dual.8953

Dual.8953

@Knyx:

What you said is a joke. No skilled competitive intelligent Thief player would play D/P if he is going for a burst spec, why would he? What combo field? Bring smoke utility or waste initiative on Black Powder so he can heartseeker through it while his target is 100% hp so he can get a stealth? Don’t make me laugh. D/P is the biggest fail set on the Thief in PvP, D/D does the role better. Also, how are you going to CnD with D/P?

i can see it being useful, if you’re not aiming for a backstab dagger (yes, that does exist). you have a free interrupt and a smoke field for survivability, a shadowstep for mobility, and heartseeker for burst. use a stealth steal for initial backstab, use high initiative regen, work from there.

The Shadowstep also has a blind, and it costs less then blindpowder so you can utilize if you want a lower cost option on a single mob.

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Posted by: Blazer Hellsing.9184

Blazer Hellsing.9184

Why would you smoke cloud+ hearseeker at 100%, you just tp with #3 few basic attacks till around 50% then smoke cloud hearseeker and backstab, which finishes off, though gotta agree its not match for D/D since 2 most viable builds are on it. Though cant agree p/p is better … i find that most useless at all.

Aaah the Thief Dagger auto-attack, what amazing damage that must do! Just a few auto-attack and the enemy is miraculously at 50% hp, for you, to set up your epic smoke cloud heartseeker backstab combo! Too bad there is a skill called CnD that makes that combo almost totally useless.

P/P is better in PvP and better in PvE, especially Dungeons. P/P is the only weapon set that guarantees you high dps and high survivability for a Thief in a dungeon, no 1 shots, easy dodges, safe distance.

For D/P to become good the Duel Skill needs to be changed in to something very useful and weapon set defining.

P.S: I said better in PvP, because P/P sucks in PvP compared to D/D, Shortbow, S/P and S/D. Shows you how far behind D/P is lol.

Main: Thief
Alts: Warrior, Necromancer, Mesmer, Elementalist (bunker)

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Posted by: Lavexis.5360

Lavexis.5360

D/P build can beat any class except super tanky bunker guardian..I just beat a condition necro and db thief in 1 v1.
I’ve tried it and yes it works.
D/P also beat condition thief, backstabber and hs spammer by farrr, and blazer if you think d/p is the worse weapon set then you have no idea what it can do.

I was a D/D backstab thief but then I found out about this rigged d/p build.. and this increase my survivability by tons while dealing good amount of damage at the same time.

Now whenever I see a condition thief or backstabber I would just laugh my kitten off and beating them slowly.
Now I don’t have videos or anything to prove but here are some screenies

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(edited by Lavexis.5360)

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Posted by: Stin.9781

Stin.9781

First of all shadow shot in full glass hass hight damage around 1.3 of hearseeker. and close to 2.5x autoattack with blind in it. To another glass cannon as i allready tried deals ~5k damage and blinds him. With low initiative cost you can use it 2 times to save up some some later for smoke cloud and hearseeker>blackstab combo. It can dish out around 20-25k dps using 17 innitiative, i dare you to dish out that ammount of damage with p/p using less initiative, so fast. Not using utilitys. I think D/p is in front of P/p yet behind all others.

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Posted by: Blazer Hellsing.9184

Blazer Hellsing.9184

D/P build can beat any class except super tanky bunker guardian..
I’ve tried it and yes it works.
D/P also beat condition thief, backstabber and hs spammer by farrr, and blazer if you think d/p is the worse weapon set then you have no idea what it can do.

Wanna test it now? lets go to the heart of the mists, tell me which server (pick an empty one) and lets see if you are right

You play on American or European servers?

Main: Thief
Alts: Warrior, Necromancer, Mesmer, Elementalist (bunker)

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Posted by: Blazer Hellsing.9184

Blazer Hellsing.9184

First of all shadow shot in full glass hass hight damage around 1.3 of hearseeker. and close to 2.5x autoattack with blind in it. To another glass cannon as i allready tried deals ~5k damage and blinds him. With low initiative cost you can use it 2 times to save up some some later for smoke cloud and hearseeker>blackstab combo. It can dish out around 20-25k dps using 17 innitiative, i dare you to dish out that ammount of damage with p/p using less initiative, so fast. Not using utilitys. I think D/p is in front of P/p yet behind all others.

If you manage to do 5k with Shadow Shot, then Unload would actually do 7k-8k on the same target.

Problem with D/P is that it is melee glass cannon with the worst defence, blind. Atleast backstab has stealth which is quite good and D/D condition (isn’t really glass cannon but still) has evade.

Blind in GW2 is weak, very weak. Auto attacks clear it with ease, if blind was “duration” instead of next attack then it would be interesting.

P/P has the advantage of ranged, which becomes a lot more important in group fights where you can stay in the back and do damage without risking to go in melee range.

That is all about sPvP.

In dungeons, D/P would be good if most enemies didn’t have that buff that makes Blind less effective, but areanet had to do it or else two Thieves would just blind lock bosses lol. A D/P thief would experience a lot more random instant 1 shots than a P/P thief, in fact if the P/P knows whit is going on he will never be random 1 shotted because he will have a longer window to respond to what the enemy does (ranged travel of the attack or w.e) while a Melee thief won’t have that luxary.

Main: Thief
Alts: Warrior, Necromancer, Mesmer, Elementalist (bunker)

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Posted by: MidgeisGood.2153

MidgeisGood.2153

Blazer, you seem to have a grudge on anyone who uses D/P, whats the deal

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Posted by: Lavexis.5360

Lavexis.5360

sure tell me your ign and ill add you
oh ill play on US server

(edited by Lavexis.5360)

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Posted by: Blazer Hellsing.9184

Blazer Hellsing.9184

Blazer, you seem to have a grudge on anyone who uses D/P, whats the deal

I dont, I play all Thief weapons on a frequent basis. I am just defending my statement.

Main: Thief
Alts: Warrior, Necromancer, Mesmer, Elementalist (bunker)

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Posted by: Blazer Hellsing.9184

Blazer Hellsing.9184

sure tell me your ign and ill add you
oh ill play on US server

Whispering you right now mate, respond :p

Main: Thief
Alts: Warrior, Necromancer, Mesmer, Elementalist (bunker)

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Posted by: Stin.9781

Stin.9781

First of all shadow shot in full glass hass hight damage around 1.3 of hearseeker. and close to 2.5x autoattack with blind in it. To another glass cannon as i allready tried deals ~5k damage and blinds him. With low initiative cost you can use it 2 times to save up some some later for smoke cloud and hearseeker>blackstab combo. It can dish out around 20-25k dps using 17 innitiative, i dare you to dish out that ammount of damage with p/p using less initiative, so fast. Not using utilitys. I think D/p is in front of P/p yet behind all others.

If you manage to do 5k with Shadow Shot, then Unload would actually do 7k-8k on the same target.

Problem with D/P is that it is melee glass cannon with the worst defence, blind. Atleast backstab has stealth which is quite good and D/D condition (isn’t really glass cannon but still) has evade.

Blind in GW2 is weak, very weak. Auto attacks clear it with ease, if blind was “duration” instead of next attack then it would be interesting.

P/P has the advantage of ranged, which becomes a lot more important in group fights where you can stay in the back and do damage without risking to go in melee range.

That is all about sPvP.

In dungeons, D/P would be good if most enemies didn’t have that buff that makes Blind less effective, but areanet had to do it or else two Thieves would just blind lock bosses lol. A D/P thief would experience a lot more random instant 1 shots than a P/P thief, in fact if the P/P knows whit is going on he will never be random 1 shotted because he will have a longer window to respond to what the enemy does (ranged travel of the attack or w.e) while a Melee thief won’t have that luxary.

The first part is true, however shadow shot is instant, and blinds, making it more bursty than p/p, which at best is mediocre sustained dps. Wont argue futher, cuz no matter D/p or p/p i find them both unplayable in tourneys so w/e

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Posted by: Lavexis.5360

Lavexis.5360

I’m very confident with this build. granted I dont have 100 % win rate in tpvp. but the build its not common and pretty strong when played right.

hell if I use other class I wouldn’t want to fight someone who are able to use d/p properly

(edited by Lavexis.5360)

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Posted by: Blazer Hellsing.9184

Blazer Hellsing.9184

First of all shadow shot in full glass hass hight damage around 1.3 of hearseeker. and close to 2.5x autoattack with blind in it. To another glass cannon as i allready tried deals ~5k damage and blinds him. With low initiative cost you can use it 2 times to save up some some later for smoke cloud and hearseeker>blackstab combo. It can dish out around 20-25k dps using 17 innitiative, i dare you to dish out that ammount of damage with p/p using less initiative, so fast. Not using utilitys. I think D/p is in front of P/p yet behind all others.

If you manage to do 5k with Shadow Shot, then Unload would actually do 7k-8k on the same target.

Problem with D/P is that it is melee glass cannon with the worst defence, blind. Atleast backstab has stealth which is quite good and D/D condition (isn’t really glass cannon but still) has evade.

Blind in GW2 is weak, very weak. Auto attacks clear it with ease, if blind was “duration” instead of next attack then it would be interesting.

P/P has the advantage of ranged, which becomes a lot more important in group fights where you can stay in the back and do damage without risking to go in melee range.

That is all about sPvP.

In dungeons, D/P would be good if most enemies didn’t have that buff that makes Blind less effective, but areanet had to do it or else two Thieves would just blind lock bosses lol. A D/P thief would experience a lot more random instant 1 shots than a P/P thief, in fact if the P/P knows whit is going on he will never be random 1 shotted because he will have a longer window to respond to what the enemy does (ranged travel of the attack or w.e) while a Melee thief won’t have that luxary.

The first part is true, however shadow shot is instant, and blinds, making it more bursty than p/p, which at best is mediocre sustained dps. Wont argue futher, cuz no matter D/p or p/p i find them both unplayable in tourneys so w/e

Yes we can agree on that, bring D/P and P/P buffs

Main: Thief
Alts: Warrior, Necromancer, Mesmer, Elementalist (bunker)

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Posted by: Lavexis.5360

Lavexis.5360

yea d/p need buffs lol

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Posted by: FrozenLuv.6017

FrozenLuv.6017

oh wow, i can’t believe everyone is taking this thread seriously, when i first read the op’s post, i thought it was a troll like how people are calling the 3rd sword skill, Stab, was OP and was able to hit for over 100k when you had 50 stacks of might. But it is true, anything with a pistol except for s/p needs to be looked at and reworked accordingly. accordingly as in not caving in to the people that whine on the forums about thieves being OP and making unnecessary nerfs.

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

well blazer, you should try adapting your traits when you use a new build. like i mentioned, you don’t need CnD for an easy stealth if you trait your steal to give you that. you can also get fury, might and swiftness with steal, regen initiative, and cause damage, with a single use of it. and if you’re lucky, you get a pack of feathers, which will allow you to go for a second backstab.

the offhand pistol adds support and survivability to the mainhand dagger’s offense.

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Posted by: Blazer Hellsing.9184

Blazer Hellsing.9184

Tried some D/P, while it is stronger than I had thought in 1v1, in group fights it is still a hybrid set which is outdone by other sets. I still think P/P and D/P need serious buffs.

Main: Thief
Alts: Warrior, Necromancer, Mesmer, Elementalist (bunker)

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

^ well yeah, P/P and D/P are meant for 1v1 (ranged and melee, respectively). the offhand pistol’s utilities are a fair tradeoff against the offhand dagger’s extra offense, especially if you go D/D for burst. there are plenty of other great stealths beyond CnD that you can use to fuel the backstabs, and you still keep heartseeker on you. the AoE blindness is useful to spam as you run if you get overwhelmed by melee and somehow ran out of stealths (then again, you could aways heartseeker through one of the fields then shadowstep away).

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Posted by: Lavexis.5360

Lavexis.5360

I agree while d/d db build is much better in group combat. D/p offer a much more flexible hybrid build and its a killer in 1 v 1. d/p advantage in group fight is that if a d/p thief get focused they have the ability to get out of combat and get back in with almost full hp healed. no matter what happen D/D thief will always die easily when get focused on, but d/p thief has much more greater chance to survive while being focused on and get back to the fight when ignored and that’s what I love about it.

Not to mention that it has 4 combo field that you can work on and the extra toughness and healing alone pretty much counters glass cannon and condition build classes.

If you play d/p a lot you will notice that black powder + heartseeker is like a free stealth with 3 second cool down that gives you free heal, condi removal and 3k damage..
I mean…. who doesn’t want that ?

only utility that this build need is shadow refuge and maybe shadow signet. so you have 1 free utility slot that you can choose freely depending on the situation.. and yes this set is just that flexible so you’re not limited in using all 3.

in Tpvp I see myself as a roamer/support/dps/ and even bunker maybe ?
I was defending a point and it takes 3 people about a minute to actually stop chasing me bc they were wasting their time trying to kill me around while I can spam stealth with ease and heal any dmg and condition that they gave me..

d/p set is lacking in group fight, but cluster bomb and shadow refuge always help..
Granted is not bursty like d/d, but if you like hybrid build that can 1 v1 most classes ,support well and survive 5 man focus ganks…d/p is the set you want.

Its definitely viable in tpvp and imagine if thief can hold point while in stealth..d/p thief will probably be a must have in tpvp setting.

the play style is also very different from d/d while you just use db or h/s..d/p set is very tactical and rely a lot lot more on stealth than any other weapon set to deal damage.

(edited by Lavexis.5360)

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Posted by: Lavexis.5360

Lavexis.5360

so far 8 out of 10 match im always the top scorer in tpvp..

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Posted by: bwillb.2165

bwillb.2165

At one point during beta, black powder caused a burn on target. I wonder if it might be worth bringing that back.

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Posted by: Knyx.5926

Knyx.5926

Blazer is just a horrible thief and a troll, don’t listen to him. Anyone who says P/P is better then D/P is playing a different game, probably hello kitty online.

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Posted by: MidgeisGood.2153

MidgeisGood.2153

hey Lavexis, could you share some insight on a decent build to use the D/P with? I wana give it another shot in PvE

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Posted by: Lan.1968

Lan.1968

P/P is simpler in terms of mechanics, so you can pay more attention to your surroundings instead of your rotation. I’d rather not have to deal with thieves who die every 30 seconds because he’s trying to produce more dps while I’m trying to not wipe.

D/P has a major drawback: blind. It’s true that blind is easily cleared, and the stun is more of a short interruption than anything else. I wouldn’t say the dps on d/p is actually good since other weapon sets do a better job in that field. Frankly, d/p feels more like a indecisive build to me, or a hybrid if you’ll call it.

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Posted by: Knyx.5926

Knyx.5926

D/P has more dps then P/P, P/D, S/D and pretty much S/P. Blind is not a drawback, its very valuable, especially AOE in group fights like wvwvw. Having the extra combo field is also very valuable. I am sorry that a lot of the horrible thiefs in wvwvw think they are good and contributing by running around as a d/d backstab/burst build solo roaming taking out other solo roaming players 1v1 or 1v2. News flash, helping your servers main forces is what contributes and it takes exponentially more skill to jump into the middle of the enemy zerg during a “firefight” get a couple kills, confuse them (generally, not the condition), and inhibit their retreat, also to live to tell the tale (Like my condition build)

An interrupt saves a downed ally from getting stomped, it also utilized said combo field. I will admit though D/P #3 is clunky.

If you want more of the “pay attention to your surroundings feel” stick with SB

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Posted by: Lan.1968

Lan.1968

Taking camps and points also contributes to the server. If I want to feel useful during siege moments, then I’ll help out with siege equipments. If I want to kill a lot of people or disrupt the enemy, I’ll go condition. However, I don’t see blind being that effective in a zerg fight when AoE’s become your worst enemy. If I really want to save a downed player, I’ll cast shadow refuge on him or try to finish off enemies near him.

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Posted by: ddrake.5436

ddrake.5436

D/P build can beat any class except super tanky bunker guardian..
I’ve tried it and yes it works.
D/P also beat condition thief, backstabber and hs spammer by farrr, and blazer if you think d/p is the worse weapon set then you have no idea what it can do.

Wanna test it now? lets go to the heart of the mists, tell me which server (pick an empty one) and lets see if you are right

You play on American or European servers?

so…. how did the fighting go? who won?

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Posted by: Knyx.5926

Knyx.5926

Blazer I am sure lost, reason: Tried to Backstab/HS Blindly in a black powder field.

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Posted by: ddrake.5436

ddrake.5436

Wasn’t Blazer P/P? and Lavexis D/P?

anyway, i’m doing a spreadsheet atm showing autoattack damage from every class with every weapon against Light/Medium/Heavy Golems and how quick they take them down with no buffs/traits/gear. so far it’s interesting enough that the professions we think should do more autoattack damage don’t and the ones that shouldn’t do. this of course does not take into account skill/buffs/traits/gear – nothing except auto attack 1

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Posted by: obtuse.8291

obtuse.8291

personally d/p is my favorite set and i use it with celestial gear, and divinity runes. with my build 10/15/20/15/10

I am the super thief

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Posted by: ddrake.5436

ddrake.5436

I run around with D/P as my #1 set, I have been trialing S/P recently so currently it is my #2 set atm. I run around with Knight Emblazoned Armor with Divinity Runes.

Build: 25/30/0/0/15

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Posted by: Knyx.5926

Knyx.5926

Wasn’t Blazer P/P? and Lavexis D/P?

anyway, i’m doing a spreadsheet atm showing autoattack damage from every class with every weapon against Light/Medium/Heavy Golems and how quick they take them down with no buffs/traits/gear. so far it’s interesting enough that the professions we think should do more autoattack damage don’t and the ones that shouldn’t do. this of course does not take into account skill/buffs/traits/gear – nothing except auto attack 1

He is supporting P/P and claiming its superiority, so Im guessing he would use P/P that doesn’t mean his offset isn’t D/D since he also mentioned it. If he is using only P/P and like Shortbow we get to have even ever greater laugh at his expense

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Posted by: ddrake.5436

ddrake.5436

I’m not going to knock any trait line, I believe all have a place and played correctly by skilled players are worthy of a #1 spot in PVE or PVP. I will however give some facts with regards to Auto-Attack damage with No Gear/Traits/Buffs of any kind. Naked fighting with the PVP weapons in HoM.

I went to HoM earlier and this is a portion of what I have collected:

Light Armor Golem:
Dagger 18sec
Sword 20sec
Pistol 26sec

Medium Armor Golem:
Dagger 19sec
Sword 20sec
Pistol 28sec

Heavy Armor Golem:
Dagger 28sec
Sword 32sec
Pistol 38sec

If you don’t like these numbers, try it out for yourself.

FYI a melee is not in melee combat as much as a ranged, therefore the damage reduced by ranged is made up for in the entire fight. there are no skilled weapons, only skilled players.

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Posted by: TheGuy.3568

TheGuy.3568

ddrake is right its the player not the weapon set. If your awesome on D/P and someones see that and gets beat they will call for nerfs on forum. Even the off builds are getting targeted now. i fear PvP is now solely about stroking individual egos. I once asked if mesmers and thieves were ruining PvP but I only asked fro ma Population perspective as there are so many. I realize now that with the blatant cries that thieves are OP and the fact many players want to win that the problem likely started here. All of us who have played realize that thieving can be countered just takes time and skill. the fact is most players want to win right now the minute they log on and feel superior. How do you explain that every one loses sometimes? How do you tell some one they just aren’t cut out for PvP?

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Posted by: Lavexis.5360

Lavexis.5360

@ ddrake I won the fight.. simply bc my d/p build set counter his necro and thief
his thief is using a d/d condition death blossom build.
d/p rely a lot upon stealth so going 30/30 is a no no

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Posted by: Kogan.9857

Kogan.9857

Well done Lavexis and props to Blazer for confidence in his ability and showing up.

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Posted by: Knyx.5926

Knyx.5926

Well done Lavexis and props to Blazer for confidence in his ability and showing up.

Well he was claiming P/P and it doesnt sound like he even use it, so much for confidence