Thieves overpowered breakdown

Thieves overpowered breakdown

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Posted by: Senjun.8149

Senjun.8149

In WvWvW which is all i play, it’s basically all i played from level 30-80 and all I played afterwards, pvp is basically all I do on any game and I know what I’m talking about when it comes to class balance.

First The Proof.
let’s take a look at this screenshot, from this morning
http://s903.beta.photobucket.com/user/Bergenor/media/gw2thieves.jpg.html

Let me tell you guys before you start assuming things that I am decked out in pvp gear and I i spend some points in Earth attunement just to get some extra toughness. The fact a thief can spam one ability and continuously hit 5-6k is very unjustified. I as an elementalist can hit 2k on a single target on a 1.5 second cast time, with a long cooldown. That is my best burst ability. The fact a thief can spam 5-6k in a skill-less, obnoxious manner is very unfair. This ability needs to be nerfed its damage would still be highly acceptable even if it was cut in half.

Second, the probability thieves are overpowered.

This isn’t my only encounter with a thief who seems use to getting 1 button kills. It happens to me every day, and I figured “this is such an obvious case of an overpowered class that gw2 staff will fix it quickly” I guess just like other games the most obvious needed nerfs take the longest to apply, the fact this happens 100% of the time to me vs any thief means this is a highly overpowered class (and overplayed, all i ever see is thieves and mesmers, coincidence?)

Third, the survivability

Thieves with such high damage should have low survivability but infact they have some of the highest and although thieves may disagree with me here if you played in the shoes of other classes you should know where I’m coming from. In pvp a thief can basically escape and run away from any fight he wants to at any time he pleases. Just vanish and poof run away.

A thief can also use his consistent invisibilities to make himself last longer in a fight and dish out more damage while being able to take worlds less damage because the thief can dance circles around someone while flickering on and off in and out of stealth. This makes his survivability higher than most classes who can’t just poof and have to stay and try to hold their ground.

Four- How thief encounters are handled.

Usually when I see a thief I no longer try to fight them one on one because I know they are an overpowered class and I try to avoid 1v1 or alot of the times even 2v1 encounters. I know if i don’t have a tanky class with me to help a thief can easily take care of me and the other.

Just not to long ago a thief and me were fighting and i did what i usually do, try to run away, stunning, mist form, arcane shield, basically anything i can do, which is always unsuccessfully because thief has ranged cripples and other ways to stop me and catch up with me, like leaping faster than i run. I ran over to a necromancer and i figured yup were going to lose, even though he was pvp geared aswell. The thief easily 3 shot me, turned invisible and finished me off, then 3-4 shot the necromancer and killed him aswell. All the time he used heartseeker with only 1-2 other buttons.

Meanwhile in our scrap i used over 6 buttons and managed to take him for 20% of his health.

Fifth- the conclusion

In conclusion basically the thief needs to have his tools and damage changed a bit. Damage needs to be brought down definately. Although many thieves may point fingers at other classes and deny their class inevitably needs a nerf, you need to think about the balance of the game and not your personal preference to be overpowered. However if thieves do not see a nerf within the next 2 weeks I will be posting another thread with much much more proof as i will be recording, screenshotting and investigating all further fights with thieves, but really how much more proof do you need?

Edit: Sorry about the screenshot being kind of an annoyance but im still not 100% sure exactly how to work these forum posts completely as this is my first thread but after clicking the screenshot you can just go back a page back to this thread.

(edited by Senjun.8149)

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Posted by: Stiv.1820

Stiv.1820

How old is that screenshot? I don’t even see how that’s possible anymore but even if it was, how do you get hit by 3 heartsekers in a row really?

All I’m going to say is this is all L2P issues. Elementalists have everything they need to destroy or fight to a draw every viable thief build in d/d alone.

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Posted by: Uberlicious.3956

Uberlicious.3956

so you post a screen shot from 2 months ago of a skill that got nerfed after this picture and you come here to cry op? its scrubs like you that are ruining this game

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Posted by: Uberlicious.3956

Uberlicious.3956

also a geared ele can hit me for 7 – 8 k the fact you mentioned you hit for 2k would lead me to beleive your below lvl 80 and not geared

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Posted by: skupuz.6940

skupuz.6940

At the end of the day, I look at the thief class and say “What the kitten happened?”

Every class weapon abilities are restricted by cool downs. But what happened with the thief class? They are the only class in the game that can spam an ability (not indefinitely but still can). It’s like letting a Warrior spam eviscerate 3-4 times in a row. It’s not the thieves fault, they just want to play a class they like. I blame the Dev for their design choice which distinctly gives the class an advantage over others.

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Posted by: masztipapa.7519

masztipapa.7519

Just posted in the thief feedback to add some diminishing returns for initiative skill spammin, but this is quite possible! I play a lot spvp these days and thieves still hit 4k heartseeker even when im using survival builds with heavy hp and armor.

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Posted by: Senjun.8149

Senjun.8149

That screenshot is actually from this morning you can claim it’s old but fact of the matter is heartseeker is still to strong.

BTW ignoring all “l2p” arguments, that argument won’t work for me as I do indeed play my class very well, that argument is a very weak one i’d like to see more structured arguments, thank you.

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Posted by: Jack of Tears.9458

Jack of Tears.9458

At the end of the day, I look at the thief class and say “What the kitten happened?”

Every class weapon abilities are restricted by cool downs. But what happened with the thief class?

Thieves are designed ta be a slippery, movement based class – ta do this right we need ta have more fluid access ta our skills. (‘cause we’re super squishy and ya never know when you’ll hafta get the heck outta dodge) We get weakened in other ways because of it … first, we’re super squishy … squishiest class in the game. We also got the smallest number of weapon choices an’ no off hand utility items. We make trades for the stuff we got, believe it. Playin’ a Thief ain’ all unicorns an’ rainbows … ya gotta learn ta play it differently than any other class … but that’s why we like it.


I’m sorry I stepped outta yer box, don’ worry, if
ya whine enough they’ll put me right back.

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Posted by: Senjun.8149

Senjun.8149

At the end of the day, I look at the thief class and say “What the kitten happened?”

Every class weapon abilities are restricted by cool downs. But what happened with the thief class? They are the only class in the game that can spam an ability (not indefinitely but still can). It’s like letting a Warrior spam eviscerate 3-4 times in a row. It’s not the thieves fault, they just want to play a class they like. I blame the Dev for their design choice which distinctly gives the class an advantage over others.

This is mind boggling isn’t it, honestly it would be like taking meteor shower, turning it into a single target 1 meteor ability, increasing damage by 300% and letting me spam that on people with no cooldown.

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Posted by: Senjun.8149

Senjun.8149

also a geared ele can hit me for 7 – 8 k the fact you mentioned you hit for 2k would lead me to beleive your below lvl 80 and not geared

What ability hits you for 7-8k, proof?

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Posted by: Uberlicious.3956

Uberlicious.3956

a glass cannon ele can crit with a metor shower on my glass cannon thief for that easy enough

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Posted by: Senjun.8149

Senjun.8149

a glass cannon ele can crit with a metor shower on my glass cannon thief for that easy enough

Lol im going to have to call you’re bluff. If you stand in the meteore shower it might add up to 8k damage if you stand in it for it’s full duration. If you’re saying 1-4 meteors strike you for a total of 8k damage than you are not geared at all. I will screenshot several meteor showers for you as proof.

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Posted by: Senjun.8149

Senjun.8149

Just posted in the thief feedback to add some diminishing returns for initiative skill spammin, but this is quite possible! I play a lot spvp these days and thieves still hit 4k heartseeker even when im using survival builds with heavy hp and armor.

Same here i can put all points into water and earth and try to be more of a tank/support ranged class but thieves still hitting me for a minimum of 4k with heartseeker

(edited by Senjun.8149)

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Posted by: Uberlicious.3956

Uberlicious.3956

tell me , have you ever played a thief before? depending on your spec you can have great survivabilty like you mention , but you need to trait into the last 3 area’s with isn’t your crit or power ones, so you do lose damage, how do you come to the conclusion that burst backstab builds also have great survivability ?

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Posted by: Uberlicious.3956

Uberlicious.3956

i actually try to avoid d/d tank ele’s and guardians as a burst back stab thief because of there stats and mobility i find them to be very hard to kill, i would rather pick the guy standing still in an open field not paying attention

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Posted by: sorrow.2364

sorrow.2364

Well, I don’t know if it’s me or not, but I see that quickness heartseeker spamming is growing up popular again.

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Posted by: RageExpert.2453

RageExpert.2453

Step 1: Hit Dodge Roll twice ( I can’t even count how many heartseekers spammers i’ve dodged doing this, once their intiative is gone, you practiclly win)

As an elementalist you should be prepared to be super squishy, you are a light armor after all, unless you run bunker ele of course.

You can say you PvP in every MMO you play, but that doesn’t automaticlly make you good, there will ALWAYS be someone better then you, I’m not saying this thief is good, but there are thieves out there that have an amazing amount of skill (that aren’t actually backstab glass cannons)

Elementalists have several survivability skills dont they?

Frost Aura.
Shocking Aura.
Arcane Shield.
Mist Form.
Armor of Earth.
Obsidian Flesh.
Fire Shield.

Cant you use one of those to survive?

I’m sorry and I’m usually the one to never say this, but learn to play(Practice makes perfect), I’ve had an Ele Tear me to pieces before, i know they’re good, IF mastered.

Good luck my friend please stop the QQ now

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Posted by: edamber.1549

edamber.1549

A mesmer can hit you with 15k+ damage from ranged. All of the attention needs to be directed towards the most OP class in the game. Secondly look at bunker guardians for tPVP. Thiefs are fine, i’ve switched to a bleed build and haven’t been killed by backstab or heartseeker in over a week of non-stop sPVP andWvWvW.

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Posted by: Shootzy.3580

Shootzy.3580

Dear Senjun.
I play MMO all my life. And I play only Thief,Rogue,Burglar or call them how you like.
Thief is nothing then Damage class.
They are not tanks they are support with high dmg and when they pop up all on CDs they are more then death.
They use stealth,backstabs etc as base attack.
Sory but from your post I can see that you dont know how to play with your Ele.
Thieves are prety squishy class you only need to find way to do that.
With this post I wanna to say big HELLO to all those kids who think that Thief is OP bcz stealth.
Its not OP its just Iritating just like Fear is iritating to me.
And ofc you wear cloth,ofc that thief make bigger dmg on you then on Heavy armored classes like Warriors,Guardians etc.
Once more m8, learn to play.
Best regards. Thief

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Posted by: Stiv.1820

Stiv.1820

Please stop taking this OP seriously. He’s lying about one of two things. Either that picture is way back before Heartseeker nerf or he is not “decked out” in PvP gear which I take to mean WvW (p/v/t) gear. Maybe he is talking about sPvP in offensive gear, either way that damage would only happen pre nerf or from a massive power over armor ratio over 1.0 where the attacker is getting a huge dmg bonus.

I recently beat 2 thieves and a ranger 3 on 1 all guilded in WvW and as soon as the Thieves saw me they both hit haste and Heartseeker spammed. They had zero chance to win because it’s so easy to avoid and counter. Any theif that does any sort of dmg with Heartseeker has ~13K health.

The OP is bad, just bad. He needs to learn to dodge, learn to trait right, learn to manage cool-downs probably all of the above.

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Posted by: skotie.2614

skotie.2614

I honestly think our class or all rogue/thief type classes are due to hate no matter what or how weak, people will only be happy when the profession is laughable. Imo it has a lot more to do with the way in which it fights then being OP, people just don’t like it when they’re opponent fights dirty and that’s pretty much what Thief’s all about. They also act like it takes no skill to play like using stealth skills is just brainless and automatic or something eh whatever…

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Posted by: Eduardo.4675

Eduardo.4675

Lets get to the facts, for this i ask you ppl to look at the screenie with a pair of eyes, not your “behind”:
The OP is lvl 80, its obvious, its in the picture,to the bottom left; the screenie is recent, a week old at most,all you have to do is look at the trading post icon and notice that he has a notification, probably to get some gold of sold stuff, this is recent change to UI; the OP is low on tufness, obvious because 3 heartseekers do almost the same dmg, regardless of the <50% and <25% health conditions, of which he met allof them, coz a ele starts at 10k health and cant have much more than the 19k he got hit there; we dont know how many thieves hit him, could have been 3 of them hitting simultaneous at below 25%, in www all thieves are called “fort aspenwood”; if it was only 1 thief,he had plenty of time to dodge/mist/watever, its 3 heartseekers, and its not like this thief was stealthed…

Adapt or die. I never die.

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Posted by: Senjun.8149

Senjun.8149

Step 1: Hit Dodge Roll twice ( I can’t even count how many heartseekers spammers i’ve dodged doing this, once their intiative is gone, you practiclly win)

As an elementalist you should be prepared to be super squishy, you are a light armor after all, unless you run bunker ele of course.

You can say you PvP in every MMO you play, but that doesn’t automaticlly make you good, there will ALWAYS be someone better then you, I’m not saying this thief is good, but there are thieves out there that have an amazing amount of skill (that aren’t actually backstab glass cannons)

Elementalists have several survivability skills dont they?

Frost Aura.
Shocking Aura.
Arcane Shield.
Mist Form.
Armor of Earth.
Obsidian Flesh.
Fire Shield.

Cant you use one of those to survive?

I’m sorry and I’m usually the one to never say this, but learn to play(Practice makes perfect), I’ve had an Ele Tear me to pieces before, i know they’re good, IF mastered.

Good luck my friend please stop the QQ now

This is a pretty weak argument, i can dodge heartseeker and i do all the time, however dodging a spammable ability has its limits of usefulness if not to stall for time. You’re also assuming i have all of those abilities at my disposal, that in order to survive a thief attack id need to blow all over those strategically while a thief mashes almost nothing but 1 button.

I have seen thieves who choose not to spam heartseeker and i honestly applaud them and i do enjoy fighting them. It’s typically a fair, fun, dynamic fight. However whenever a thief attacks me and i see heartseeker is his ability of choice, than i lose 100% of the time. Even with help most of the times.

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Posted by: Senjun.8149

Senjun.8149

Lets get to the facts, for this i ask you ppl to look at the screenie with a pair of eyes, not your “behind”:
The OP is lvl 80, its obvious, its in the picture,to the bottom left; the screenie is recent, a week old at most,all you have to do is look at the trading post icon and notice that he has a notification, probably to get some gold of sold stuff, this is recent change to UI; the OP is low on tufness, obvious because 3 heartseekers do almost the same dmg, regardless of the <50% and <25% health conditions, of which he met allof them, coz a ele starts at 10k health and cant have much more than the 19k he got hit there; we dont know how many thieves hit him, could have been 3 of them hitting simultaneous at below 25%, in www all thieves are called “fort aspenwood”; if it was only 1 thief,he had plenty of time to dodge/mist/watever, its 3 heartseekers, and its not like this thief was stealthed…

Thank you for clearing those things up for everyone, and yes it was one thief. I’m not entirely sure how the class works completely because I don’t play it. My health is 18.5k and i did indeed dodge, arcane shield and mist form even but it seems like he just tirelessly kept hopping all over the place with heartseeker. Those were 3 heartseekers in a row dealt by one thief in the open which is when i got so fed up with it that i decided to come here.

To also clear something else up my gear is mostly rare pvp toughness/vitality/power stacking gear, the rest is lesser pvp gear.

(edited by Senjun.8149)

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Posted by: ganeshori.6309

ganeshori.6309

if you want to talk about op, go to the warrior forums and complain about those 15 – 26k kill shots they get with that stupid rifle

Hehe….my main is a run n gun type build….love me kill shots. I’m built to quickly build up addrenaline just for that purpose…only use up that ability on me axe when its really needed.

But I love me thief too….I think my warrior is better, or that I’m more used to him. But my thief gives me the chuckles….the average player just doesnt know how to deal with them.

Oh and D/D eles are GOD, sheesh!!! I wish I could play one good…hell, I wish I could play one at just the “fairly good” levels.

Thieves arent OP….the guys playin them tend to be…just like any class.

Sgt Rock —- TK / DPS
2nd Battalion / 5th Marines – Hotel Company – Fort Aspenwood

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Posted by: Caffynated.5713

Caffynated.5713

Thief needs a few adjustments, but downplaying what other classes can do doesn’t help your argument.

This was last week against a level 80 warrior in WvW with at least some exotics.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/FG.jpg

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Posted by: Sin.4902

Sin.4902

Basically, you need to play the class to counter it effectively. I play thief, I laugh when they jump at me with heart seeker when I’m at full health. I stand there, eat a few, dodge the next 2, then he’s a sitting duck, no more initiative. Thieves can spam 5-7 heart seeker in a row if they traited right. Honestly, a decent thief would never spam 1 skill repeatedly until they run out of initiative. It’s all about timing your skills, don’t burn all your CD at once, you’ll be a sitting duck too if you chose to. Once you figure out what type of thief you play against, it’s not so bad to counter.

There was a condition build elementalist I fought against in spvp, I could not defeat him once, cuz I was running dagger/dagger with no condition removal. However, if I had a sword/dagger equip, I would do much better. It’s situational on build when you’re playing agaisnt different builds of the class.

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Posted by: Navzar.2938

Navzar.2938

Step 1: Hit Dodge Roll twice ( I can’t even count how many heartseekers spammers i’ve dodged doing this, once their intiative is gone, you practiclly win)

As an elementalist you should be prepared to be super squishy, you are a light armor after all, unless you run bunker ele of course.

You can say you PvP in every MMO you play, but that doesn’t automaticlly make you good, there will ALWAYS be someone better then you, I’m not saying this thief is good, but there are thieves out there that have an amazing amount of skill (that aren’t actually backstab glass cannons)

Elementalists have several survivability skills dont they?

Frost Aura.
Shocking Aura.
Arcane Shield.
Mist Form.
Armor of Earth.
Obsidian Flesh.
Fire Shield.

Cant you use one of those to survive?

I’m sorry and I’m usually the one to never say this, but learn to play(Practice makes perfect), I’ve had an Ele Tear me to pieces before, i know they’re good, IF mastered.

Good luck my friend please stop the QQ now

This. aside from fire and frost aura, the rest will stop most melee bursts in their tracks.
As for frost aura, that won’t automatically stop it, but it will make kiting much easier.
An ele should nearly always have a cantrip on the bar for a pvp situation, and seeing as they’re have a squishy base survivability, they should also be partially speccing in a tankier direction.

…but did you really list fire shield as a defensive skill? That one won’t do anything.

If guns don’t kill people, people kill people, do toasters not toast toast, toast toast toast?

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Posted by: frans.8092

frans.8092

To also clear something else up my gear is mostly rare pvp toughness/vitality/power stacking gear, the rest is lesser pvp gear.

Not sure what you mean by that ‘PvP gear’ because, afaik, there is no PvP gear in WvW, it’s all what you can loot, craft or buy in PvE, and anything less then level 80 exotic is insufficient.

Blind should be fairly effective against thieves – and just about anything else – and eles do have their share of methods to apply it.

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Posted by: WereDragon.6083

WereDragon.6083

I’m confused how is that guy getting 2k heartseekers when my heartseeker says that when a target is at 25% hp it only hits 1,242. Granted I may not be a FULL glass cannon build.

Your second point adds no other information other then that YOU can’t kill thieves
As per statistics at game launch thieves where the second highest played next to warriors and mesmers where the least.

Third point
Are you talking about survivability to flee and lose the fight depriving you of a kill, or are you talking about the class that as per game code has THE LOWEST base hp pool out of any class in the game?

The constant invisibility is a bug in the games engine. ((As I saw from the screenshot you where in WVW)) The bug is the server cannot catch up with how fast the thief is spamming stealth causing him to seem “Perma invisible.”

Also the thief is NOT invulnerable in stealth he still takes the same damage as he would out. Being a Thief the moment I see another thief stealth I pile AoE’s in my location, i’ve watched a glass cannon thief pop out of stealth moments later laying on the floor because he thought he could spam backstab inside my cluster bombs and choking gas.

On my necro it’s even more fun with improved marks I just drop them on myself and watch them all trip while he’s in stealth.

I will ignore the forth point, but will point out a few interesting things.
Thieves have a 12 initive pool by default. if he crippled you he used dancing dagger casting 4 ini.
You then stated he hearseeker spammed after you. Each heartseeker costs 3 ini. Meaning if you take normal ini regen into account he would have gotten about 3 in before he was starved ini wise.

How he killed with with the mainhand dagger attack alone is baffling me. You also made no point to dodge roll at ANY time.

The thief was not PVP geared if he hit you that hard then then turned around and you hit him that hard. He was a glass cannon build.

Now in my conclusion I suggest you check out a few elementalist PVP videos. ((Up to date ones)) Because you’re having trouble where alot of people are not.

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Posted by: condiments.8043

condiments.8043

This is a pretty weak argument, i can dodge heartseeker and i do all the time, however dodging a spammable ability has its limits of usefulness if not to stall for time. You’re also assuming i have all of those abilities at my disposal, that in order to survive a thief attack id need to blow all over those strategically while a thief mashes almost nothing but 1 button.

I have seen thieves who choose not to spam heartseeker and i honestly applaud them and i do enjoy fighting them. It’s typically a fair, fun, dynamic fight. However whenever a thief attacks me and i see heartseeker is his ability of choice, than i lose 100% of the time. Even with help most of the times.

I don’t do much WvW, so damage might be more exacerbated than it is in the mists(I’m pretty sure it is), but I don’t lose to heartseeker spamming thieves on elementalist….EVER. Any thief who thinks they can get by just by spamming heartseeker is picked apart and eaten alive by good players in sPvP.

Firstly I recommend finding a good build. Staff is quite horrible in 1v1 engagements, whereas scepter/dagger & dagger/dagger are amongst the strongest in the game. I’m running 0/20/0/20/30 valkyrie scepter/dagger area burst build, and I can melt thieves in seconds I catch them. They can burst me down if I get caught in damage combo, but if I have cooldowns I can survive any burst they throw at me with the sustain I have.

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Posted by: Gwartham Haldane.8459

Gwartham Haldane.8459

@Senjun.

I have 4 lvl 80’s, one of them is a Ele.

I’m not gonna waste a lot of time here breaking things down, so lemme just say this.

Get rid of the sub par dps gear and the sub par dps build, and then play your ele, if you really want to compare damages.

You will giggle with glee the amounts of damage you can crank out, and then you will rage at how easily your brought down.

Welcome to the world of the glass cannon thief.

And another thing, PvP pro, why did you just stand there and eat 3 heartseekers in a row? No evade, no mists?

(edited by Gwartham Haldane.8459)

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Posted by: grizlo.5826

grizlo.5826

A mesmer can hit you with 15k+ damage from ranged. All of the attention needs to be directed towards the most OP class in the game. Secondly look at bunker guardians for tPVP. Thiefs are fine, i’ve switched to a bleed build and haven’t been killed by backstab or heartseeker in over a week of non-stop sPVP andWvWvW.

15K I call bullkitten! I am a mesmer in full exotic crit build and my best crit is 4K if the moons align. Now that izerker has had its damaged nerfed into the ground you are kidding yourself if you think we are op. You are clearly just deflecting the subject away from the clear problem Thief!

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Posted by: BlackDeath.8106

BlackDeath.8106

In WvWvW which is all i play, it’s basically all i played from level 30-80 and all I played afterwards, pvp is basically all I do on any game and I know what I’m talking about when it comes to class balance.

First The Proof.
let’s take a look at this screenshot, from this morning
http://s903.beta.photobucket.com/user/Bergenor/media/gw2thieves.jpg.html

Let me tell you guys before you start assuming things that I am decked out in pvp gear and I i spend some points in Earth attunement just to get some extra toughness. The fact a thief can spam one ability and continuously hit 5-6k is very unjustified. I as an elementalist can hit 2k on a single target on a 1.5 second cast time, with a long cooldown. That is my best burst ability. The fact a thief can spam 5-6k in a skill-less, obnoxious manner is very unfair. This ability needs to be nerfed its damage would still be highly acceptable even if it was cut in half.

Do not worry my good sir, i just sent Anet a report on this matter asking them to implement a general skill where we can evade those attacks. This is really frustrating that all you can do is stand still and get the damage.

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Posted by: Doomdesire.9365

Doomdesire.9365

How much HP do you have?

The heartseeker hits themselves add up to 18K+

You expect me to believe he scored a 5.5K heartseeker when you had almost full HP? I’ve used pure glass cannon before and have never gotten that high a hit unless the guy had low HP. This might have been possible before the nerf, but not now. You expect us to believe that picture was taken this morning?

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Posted by: Rayya.2591

Rayya.2591

In WvWvW which is all i play, it’s basically all i played from level 30-80 and all I played afterwards, pvp is basically all I do on any game and I know what I’m talking about when it comes to class balance.
First The Proof.
let’s take a look at this screenshot, from this morning
http://s903.beta.photobucket.com/user/Bergenor/media/gw2thieves.jpg.html
Let me tell you guys before you start assuming things that I am decked out in pvp gear and I i spend some points in Earth attunement just to get some extra toughness. The fact a thief can spam one ability and continuously hit 5-6k is very unjustified. I as an elementalist can hit 2k on a single target on a 1.5 second cast time, with a long cooldown. That is my best burst ability. The fact a thief can spam 5-6k in a skill-less, obnoxious manner is very unfair. This ability needs to be nerfed its damage would still be highly acceptable even if it was cut in half.
Second, the probability thieves are overpowered.
This isn’t my only encounter with a thief who seems use to getting 1 button kills. It happens to me every day, and I figured “this is such an obvious case of an overpowered class that gw2 staff will fix it quickly” I guess just like other games the most obvious needed nerfs take the longest to apply, the fact this happens 100% of the time to me vs any thief means this is a highly overpowered class (and overplayed, all i ever see is thieves and mesmers, coincidence?)

Third, the survivability

Thieves with such high damage should have low survivability but infact they have some of the highest and although thieves may disagree with me here if you played in the shoes of other classes you should know where I’m coming from. In pvp a thief can basically escape and run away from any fight he wants to at any time he pleases. Just vanish and poof run away.
A thief can also use his consistent invisibilities to make himself last longer in a fight and dish out more damage while being able to take worlds less damage because the thief can dance circles around someone while flickering on and off in and out of stealth. This makes his survivability higher than most classes who can’t just poof and have to stay and try to hold their ground.
Four- How thief encounters are handled.
Usually when I see a thief I no longer try to fight them one on one because I know they are an overpowered class and I try to avoid 1v1 or alot of the times even 2v1 encounters. I know if i don’t have a tanky class with me to help a thief can easily take care of me and the other.
Just not to long ago a thief and me were fighting and i did what i usually do, try to run away, stunning, mist form, arcane shield, basically anything i can do, which is always unsuccessfully because thief has ranged cripples and other ways to stop me and catch up with me, like leaping faster than i run. I ran over to a necromancer and i figured yup were going to lose, even though he was pvp geared aswell. The thief easily 3 shot me, turned invisible and finished me off, then 3-4 shot the necromancer and killed him aswell. All the time he used heartseeker with only 1-2 other buttons.

Meanwhile in our scrap i used over 6 buttons and managed to take him for 20% of his health.
Fifth- the conclusion
In conclusion basically the thief needs to have his tools and damage changed a bit. Damage needs to be brought down definately. Although many thieves may point fingers at other classes and deny their class inevitably needs a nerf, you need to think about the balance of the game and not your personal preference to be overpowered. However if thieves do not see a nerf within the next 2 weeks I will be posting another thread with much much more proof as i will be recording, screenshotting and investigating all further fights with thieves, but really how much more proof do you need?
Edit: Sorry about the screenshot being kind of an annoyance but im still not 100% sure exactly how to work these forum posts completely as this is my first thread but after clicking the screenshot you can just go back a page back to this thread.

there are some classes that got same damage and is AOE !!! / more mobility then thief , and also got CC !!!
min 2.47-2.57- enough sayd , he burst the thief in less that 2 seconds ? please …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDZNxrRhkQ0

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Posted by: SkyTumn.3278

SkyTumn.3278

OP, you are obviously lacking toughness. I don’t see how a thief can hit that hard, even full glass, and you can survive all that damage? Thieves only hit that hard when you are low on health after the patch, when Heartseeker’s extra damage happens + Executioner trait takes effect + a crit. I have no idea why everyone is raging at thieves even after the patch tbh. If it’s them capping while stealth at WvWvW, then that’s another matter altogether. I play a backstab thief and have PvP’d plenty, sPvP and tPvP. In sPvP, I could hit over 5k damage hits on an ele no problem, because so many of them run glass cannon’s. Some run high vitality but low toughness, which looks to be your case too. Everyone who runs glassy builds should just stop raging when they die to full backstab/heartseeker spec thieves, seriously. It’s getting so annoying. If you run such a low toughness build, how do you expect to NOT be brought down by an assassin class? Try playing tPvP and see the ele’s over there. I have never ever won a good ele at all with my thief, no matter what strategy I try with D/D. Never tried full condition build though. So it looks pretty funny when an ele comes and says he’s having problems with fighting a thief.

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Posted by: Caffynated.5713

Caffynated.5713

there are some classes that got same damage and is AOE !!! / more mobility then thief , and also got CC !!!
min 2.47-2.57- enough sayd , he burst the thief in less that 2 seconds ? please …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDZNxrRhkQ0

1. He first attacked the thief at 2:54 and the thief was downed at 3:01. Not 2 seconds
2. He used double arcane spells which took a 30% damage nerf back in October.

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Posted by: Xolo.3580

Xolo.3580

After reading the usual “l2p l2dodge lolzhowdougethit3timeslolz” posts that help no one and should be deleted I usually hit the “back” button in my browser immediately (call it “dodging the kitten”), but I have to say one thing: I play a Thief and whenever I’m accidentally spamming Heartseeker because of the game’s auto cueing or lag, I feel bad.

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Posted by: Renoaku.4189

Renoaku.4189

I agree thieves are over pwoered PVE it doesnt matter PVP it does.

In 5vs5 a thief can kill me as a mage, or even a necro very easy let alone a champion or a warrior its almost impossible to 1vs1 unless they are n00b builds.

The main problem I see with thief is no so much their damage, but their ability to cloak every frigging second if they were more of a target and im not talking about just increase CD timers but if they had to stealth, plan correctly or have to take cover behind something before able to restealth then they would be nerfed enough.

Not only thieves, but Mesmers are the Second Most Over Powered class I have seen due to illusions and their skills.

Every other class can easily be killed although thief is again the most OP they do too much damage get away too easy PewPew everyone went against a thief we were winning 5vs5 a thief comes in and kills us all very fast spamming skill combo’s that are nubish.

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Posted by: katniss.6735

katniss.6735

also a geared ele can hit me for 7 – 8 k

LMAO! That’s a cool story. Only a staff wielding elementalist can crit past 6k in full glass cannon. If you can’t beat a staff wielding elementalist, there’s no hope for you. You have to hide in a crowd to make staff pvp work, as there’s no escape tactics at all. It’s neither fun nor comparable to thief roamers that spam CnD, Steal, Backstab.

Server: Maguuma – Leafy Lass – Elementalist (WvW)
Guild: Bill Murray [Bill]/ [DERP]
You don’t have to be crazy to play Ele, but it helps!

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Posted by: Dee Jay.2460

Dee Jay.2460

Only playing PvP and not having 1st hand experience on a Thief is what disqualifies your opinion.

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Posted by: Riselight.3695

Riselight.3695

Thieves are very OP indeed, and they really need a nerf. I get frustrated many times when I’m fighting Thieves in WvW. If you say that ele can hit you with 7-8k, do you realise that this is only possible when he/she is using dual dagger? And unlike a dual dagger thief, an Elementalist can’t just sneak to the tarhet, use its most awesome skills on the target then go invisible and run while switching to dual pistols and finish it. If you say that Elementalists are more powerfull then thieves you need to think again. We can’t use a 2nd weapon set, so we’re forced to use long ranged, medium ranged or short ranged and can’t switch while fighting. Ok, we can switch attuments, but they have a CD and still doesn’t change the range you have.

Check the screenshot where a Thief killed me in 5 seconds in WvW

Thieves are gamebreaking and I hope to see a nerf in the future

Attachments:

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Posted by: Frye.4608

Frye.4608

“OP, you are obviously lacking toughness. I don’t see how a thief can hit that hard, even full glass, and you can survive all that damage?”

I know! It sounds unbelievable! Unfair isn’t it? Yet it happens all the time to tank elementalists. Such is the life of the one class with light armor AND low HP.

The numbers add up. If you get full pvp gear AND spec into earth, with cnd trinkets (that have vit, no armor) then you are very very tanky (defensive stats on everything). Yet, you get killed with these numbers regularly. From stealth, within seconds.

Eles CAN hit for 7-8k lets also be fair the other way around. Churning Earth as glass cannon ele can hit well over 10k when certain conditions are met.

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Posted by: Gwalchgwn.1659

Gwalchgwn.1659

Funny how these attachments show numbers that would instant kill me in WvW. Yet I’ve never actually seen these numbers when fighting a thief …

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Posted by: Eduardo.4675

Eduardo.4675

Thieves are very OP indeed, and they really need a nerf. I get frustrated many times when I’m fighting Thieves in WvW. If you say that ele can hit you with 7-8k, do you realise that this is only possible when he/she is using dual dagger? And unlike a dual dagger thief, an Elementalist can’t just sneak to the tarhet, use its most awesome skills on the target then go invisible and run while switching to dual pistols and finish it. If you say that Elementalists are more powerfull then thieves you need to think again. We can’t use a 2nd weapon set, so we’re forced to use long ranged, medium ranged or short ranged and can’t switch while fighting. Ok, we can switch attuments, but they have a CD and still doesn’t change the range you have.

Check the screenshot where a Thief killed me in 5 seconds in WvW

Thieves are gamebreaking and I hope to see a nerf in the future

.

Nice screenie. Pretty educating. So this drakkar thief comes around, you see him, because you hit him with flame burst, but you arent expecting a thief to stealth? you dont get yourself ready for the burst? Nicely played. After this wonderful display of game awareness by YOU, this thief uses steal, benefits from the trait that makes them invisible with steal (there is no C&D shown there), and hits you for 7k backstab, what do you do? you switch to air attunement, because thats what you need to do, right? No heals needed, no earth protection, nothing… you need to go air. Well played. You had 5 whole seconds to heal, and that was after you had seen the thief BEFORE all this burst came to be… not a single heal, no preemptive protection knowing what the thief was gonna do, no mists, no dodges, no avoid giving your back, nothing. You were on fire attune, didnt heal, didnt protect yourself, instead you decide to go air, give him the back and run away. Obviously, the thief finished what was an easy job with heartseeker.
Nothing special here, just another day of a thief stomping nubs.

Adapt or die. I never die.

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Posted by: Eduardo.4675

Eduardo.4675

Thieves are very OP indeed, and they really need a nerf. I get frustrated many times when I’m fighting Thieves in WvW. If you say that ele can hit you with 7-8k, do you realise that this is only possible when he/she is using dual dagger? And unlike a dual dagger thief, an Elementalist can’t just sneak to the tarhet, use its most awesome skills on the target then go invisible and run while switching to dual pistols and finish it. If you say that Elementalists are more powerfull then thieves you need to think again. We can’t use a 2nd weapon set, so we’re forced to use long ranged, medium ranged or short ranged and can’t switch while fighting. Ok, we can switch attuments, but they have a CD and still doesn’t change the range you have.

Check the screenshot where a Thief killed me in 5 seconds in WvW

Thieves are gamebreaking and I hope to see a nerf in the future

.

Nice screenie. Pretty educating. So this drakkar thief comes around, you see him, because you hit him with flame burst, but you arent expecting a thief to stealth? you dont get yourself ready for the burst? Nicely played. After this wonderful display of game awareness by YOU, this thief uses steal, benefits from the trait that makes them invisible with steal (there is no C&D shown there), and hits you for 7k backstab, what do you do? you switch to air attunement, because thats what you need to do, right? No heals needed, no earth protection, nothing… you need to go air. Well played. You had 5 whole seconds to heal, and that was after you had seen the thief BEFORE all this burst came to be… not a single heal, no preemptive protection knowing what the thief was gonna do, no mists, no dodges, no avoid giving your back, nothing. You were on fire attune, didnt heal, didnt protect yourself, instead you decide to go air, give him the back and run away. Obviously, the thief finished what was an easy job with heartseeker.
Nothing special here, just another day of a thief stomping nubs.

Adapt or die. I never die.

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Posted by: Eduardo.4675

Eduardo.4675

Nice screenie. Pretty educating. So this drakkar thief comes around, you see him, because you hit him with flame burst, but you arent expecting a thief to stealth? you dont get yourself ready for the burst? Nicely played. After this wonderful display of game awareness by YOU, this thief uses steal, benefits from the trait that makes them invisible with steal (there is no C&D shown there), and hits you for 7k backstab, what do you do? you switch to air attunement, because thats what you need to do, right? No heals needed, no earth protection, nothing… you need to go air. Well played. You had 5 whole seconds to heal, and that was after you had seen the thief BEFORE all this burst came to be… not a single heal, no preemptive protection knowing what the thief was gonna do, no mists, no dodges, no avoid giving your back, nothing. You were on fire attune, didnt heal, didnt protect yourself, instead you decide to go air, give him the back and run away. Obviously, the thief finished what was an easy job with heartseeker.
Nothing special here, just another day of a thief stomping nubs.

Adapt or die. I never die.

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Posted by: Moderator

Moderator

Hi everyone,

Please feel free to join in this thread about thief and its playstyle/feedback to improve it
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/thief/Feedback-about-the-thief-and-its-gameplay/page/4

Thanks