It's time to balance PvP apart from PvE/WvW

It's time to balance PvP apart from PvE/WvW

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

In that case when do we PvE thieves get our 3s revealed debuff back?

Maybe so. We’re debating it.

If it’s a PvE change, it will be absurd in WvW, where thieves are already one of the strongest if not the most popular class for roaming.

I think it’s time to change the WvW ruleset to share spvp limitations, like a hard cap on crit damage bonus at 60% and using the spvp formula for confusion, which is pretty broken against players with the PvE one.

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Posted by: ensoriki.5789

ensoriki.5789

Please reasses wtf you want every weapon to do.

The great forum duppy.

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Posted by: DiogoSilva.7089

DiogoSilva.7089

I think it’s time to change the WvW ruleset to share spvp limitations, like a hard cap on crit damage bonus at 60% and using the spvp formula for confusion, which is pretty broken against players with the PvE one.

I agree. Sure, wvw uses your pve character, but it’s a pvp game.

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Posted by: raudence.7961

raudence.7961

Putting a crit cap removes diversity. A glass cannon can kill another glass cannon easy. On the opposite end there are really tanky characters that take a long time to bring down to 30%, only to have them go back to 100%. The idea of “nerfing” to balance things is wrong. Buffing to bring things up to par is the right move. Otherwise people could insist on a damage reduction cap of toughness.

You have bunker eles running into groups of 15 people and easily escaping, and they feel like they’re “allowed” to do that. And where you want a 50m zerg to always crush a 30m because they’re all geared with soldiers and receive even less damage from players – and use there numbers to act as meatshields for their seige.

If you really want crit damage to be capped at 60%, then crit% stat on items HAS to go up to compensate its reduced value as a stat – but then that means even tanky characters will have access to doing more damage than they should. Or even add vitality to berserker gear like sPVP. But that’s just disgusting.

I play in a 6-9m guild that tags zergs 2 to 3 times larger than our group. And only 2 warriors are geared full berserker. Guardians and eles full clerics. Necros full rabid. And we would fail everytime if we had a 9m berserker warrior group. Its not just about doing damage, or being geared in soldiers and spamming 1; its about sucking it up, getting in a group, and playing a role.

(edited by raudence.7961)

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Posted by: DiogoSilva.7089

DiogoSilva.7089

The idea of “nerfing” to balance things is wrong. Buffing to bring things up to par is the right move.

I want to comment this part of your post.

Nerfing is as important to a game as buffing. It depends on context. The best bunkers and the best glass cannons have been getting nerfed since the release of the game, because in addition to being too strong, they also made the game unfun to a lot of people. Buffing everything else to be on par with them would not fix the problem, it would intensify it instead, and take away all the depth from the combat system, transforming gw2 into a “die in 2 seconds or live forever” game. Not very fun, heh? At least, not very fun for GW2’s combat, which was balanced around 15+ skills, that were meant to be used after their cooldowns, weaponswaps, offensive playstyles, etc. If things are on a power level high enough that makes the combat trivial, then nerfing them is the good option, not buffing everything else to be on par.

(edited by DiogoSilva.7089)

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Posted by: randomfightfan.4091

randomfightfan.4091

The debuff is very needed in WvW, so I doubt it.

no it wasn’t, their 1st idea of revealed every time u get out of stealth was needed. 4s revealed wasn’t

Check out my page for some good thiefisms :)
http://www.youtube.com/user/randomfightfan/videos?view=0&flow=grid

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Posted by: randomfightfan.4091

randomfightfan.4091

In that case when do we PvE thieves get our 3s revealed debuff back?

Maybe so. We’re debating it.

THANK YOU! I’ll have to e-hug you if that happens. I’ll actually get to enjoy playing my thief in pve again Hate feeling clumsy

Check out my page for some good thiefisms :)
http://www.youtube.com/user/randomfightfan/videos?view=0&flow=grid

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Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

The debuff is very needed in WvW, so I doubt it.

no it wasn’t, their 1st idea of revealed every time u get out of stealth was needed. 4s revealed wasn’t

Yeah, thieves keep telling themselves that. The rest disagree.

Not that it will make a difference when you have infiltrator arrow and shadow step to disengage whenever you kitten and the opponent can do nothing about it unless he’s a thief as well.

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Posted by: randomfightfan.4091

randomfightfan.4091

Yeah, thieves keep telling themselves that. The rest disagree.

Not that it will make a difference when you have infiltrator arrow and shadow step to disengage whenever you kitten and the opponent can do nothing about it unless he’s a thief as well.

lol. If you were juts in a fight, the thief doesn’t have the initiative to escape with ia. They can get a good distance away but it’s nothing even close to the quality of a d/d ele or gs warrior. If a thief chases those guys and manages to catch them, they are left without initiative and most of their utilities on cd (assuming they weren’t on cd already).

And do you really like fighting a thief that just keeps chaining cnd for perma invis more than you like fighting a thief that actually uses their attacks so you have time to fight back?! Trust me on this, you don’t realized just how much better revealed every time you leave stealth is for the people qqing about thieves in wvw

Check out my page for some good thiefisms :)
http://www.youtube.com/user/randomfightfan/videos?view=0&flow=grid

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Posted by: stone cold.8609

stone cold.8609

Jonathan – as someone who only plays PvE/dungeons, it is good the hear that you and your team are looking PvE, WvW, and PvP as separate entities and making balancing changes separately. This makes a lot of sense to me, as I have seen and had to adapt to many changes that seemed to be geared to fix issues in WvW or PvP (that weren’t issues in PvE) that had large negative impact in PvE play.

Speaking from someone who has a lot of hours on the PvE Thief class, it is good to hear that you are reconsidering the recent changes to reveal. It really has diminished the effectiveness of the PvE offhand dagger builds.

Could you also reconsider the change to made to the aggro table upon leaving stealth that was made two patches ago? For me this is even a bigger issue with using stealth in its current form in PvE. Stealth basically acts like a mob taunt now, since they don’t drop aggro and wait for you to reappear (except when using Shadow Refuge for the full amount of time). Among many things, it has made our downed skill #3 completely useless since the mob is standing right over you waiting for you to reappear from stealth to finish you off.

Thank you for your consideration!

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Posted by: Celtus.8456

Celtus.8456

Am I the only person who thought GW1’s separation of PvP/PvE balance was a bad move? It caused rampant over-buffing of PvE skills, some of which spilled over into PvP. Besides that, I do not seem to recall any great balancing achievements in PvP or PvE caused by the skill split, I do feel that the quality of the game declined though (especially the challenge of PvE and diversity of PvP builds).

And I believe the gap between “PvP players” and “PvE players” was widened…

Josre

(edited by Celtus.8456)

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Posted by: ensoriki.5789

ensoriki.5789

Am I the only person who thought GW1’s separation of PvP/PvE balance was a bad move? It caused rampant over-buffing of PvE skills, some of which spilled over into PvP. Besides that, I do not seem to recall any great balancing achievements in PvP or PvE caused by the skill split, I do feel that the quality of the game declined though (especially the challenge of PvE and diversity of PvP builds).

And I believe the gap between “PvP players” and “PvE players” was widened…

Its not the beat move but assuming time constraints and what not its faster than rebalancing PvE mobs and more effective than trying to hit 3 game modes..

The great forum duppy.

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Posted by: Ostricheggs.3742

Ostricheggs.3742

Am I the only person who thought GW1’s separation of PvP/PvE balance was a bad move? It caused rampant over-buffing of PvE skills, some of which spilled over into PvP. Besides that, I do not seem to recall any great balancing achievements in PvP or PvE caused by the skill split, I do feel that the quality of the game declined though (especially the challenge of PvE and diversity of PvP builds).

And I believe the gap between “PvP players” and “PvE players” was widened…

Really your argument boils down to balancing problems that didn’t occur from the split itself but rather the incompetence that followed.

www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs Rank 71 PvP, over 10,000 tourneys played

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Posted by: jcbroe.4329

jcbroe.4329

Am I the only person who thought GW1’s separation of PvP/PvE balance was a bad move? It caused rampant over-buffing of PvE skills, some of which spilled over into PvP. Besides that, I do not seem to recall any great balancing achievements in PvP or PvE caused by the skill split, I do feel that the quality of the game declined though (especially the challenge of PvE and diversity of PvP builds).

And I believe the gap between “PvP players” and “PvE players” was widened…

Really your argument boils down to balancing problems that didn’t occur from the split itself but rather the incompetence that followed.

To add to responding to this, personally I didn’t feel like the PvE/PvP split ever affected any aspect of balance. The way I remember it (it’s been awhile), the actual changes to functions of things were the things that made me facepalm (Wastrels spam…)

JROH
Main: Ranger | Other: All classes, All 80s
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Posted by: Akio.3849

Akio.3849

A couple things:

  • For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.
  • For those afraid of drastic differences between the game types – we’re not doing this. We’re mostly just splitting #’s (damage, healing, recharge, durations, etc.). Our old philosophy holds – once you learn a class in one area of the game, that knowledge should transfer to other areas of the game.

So, out of curiosity, does this mean you guys will fix the PvE confusion issue? or is this going to be a skill only thing?(and hopefully the mesmers torch skills will get fixed as well)

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Posted by: randomfightfan.4091

randomfightfan.4091

Initiative isn’t even an issue for particularly specced thieves — that’s a lie.

it doesn’t matter how you’re specced. If you blow 12 initiative on 2 arrows to catch your target, you WILL be out of initiative. Sure it regenerates but if 1. The guy keeps running, the thief can’t catch and 2. The guy jumps on the thief, the thief is forced to use a utility to stealth or get away or be at a severe disadvantage at the start of the fight.

Check out my page for some good thiefisms :)
http://www.youtube.com/user/randomfightfan/videos?view=0&flow=grid

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Posted by: Sifu.6527

Sifu.6527

Suggest we put this in the General Discussion forum since this affects PvP/WvW/and PvE.

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Posted by: TooBz.3065

TooBz.3065

It’s amazing to me how different PvP is from the rest of the game. On this forum I constantly see call for nerfs of the least powerful classes. Engineers and Rangers come to mind.

I would much prefer that ANet segment off the PvP game from the rest of the world, changes that are balanced in the isolated world of a PvP match frequently renders classes pathetic in WvW.

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Posted by: Zinwrath.2049

Zinwrath.2049

Please, don’t do the same you did with GW1, where some skill splits were so drastic, that they effectively became two different kind of skills for each of their format. That was horrible. So far, all skill splits have dealt with numerical differences only. I hope it keeps going that way.

The change to Kit Refinement damaged A LOT of Engineers and has turned the class folder into one huge identity crisis. They effectively threw away perfectly suitable PvE builds all because they wanted to re-balance the Grenade Kit in PvP.

I’m sorry but I’m tired of seeing nerfs to my favorite class in PvE/WvW because of an area of the game I almost never play. If they want sPvP to be a legitimate e-sport, it needs the type of clinical precision in their balancing that is not only not necessary in PvE/WvW but totally kills the enjoyment of them.

I loved using the Elixir Gun with its double Super Elixirs—and so did my groups. It was one of the few areas where the Engineer truly shined. And these days I find myself rolling my Guardian into dungeons these days instead.

Just look at the Engineer folder. Spend just 20 seconds looking through the first few pages of threads and tell me that this way of balancing seriously works.

People there just don’t know what to do with themselves anymore; the psychology of the class is so fragile right now when it comes to PvE, all the while they keep telling us that turrets should be a part of the meta even though they explode when a boss literally breathes on them in PvE.

Agreed. There are tons of suitable play styles that could be opened up to one game mode (pve, wvw, spvp) if you allowed balance in one area to not effect another. By nerfing something that is too powerful vs players for example, you create something that is too weak vs dungeon bosses.

In sense, you could actually allow an AE damage reduction to pets/turrets etc and it would make them viable in dungeons and pve….but with the current system if you did this you would be possibly ruining counter play for mass pet strats in PVP/WVW.

I think moving forward any longer on the blind notion that some how magicly 3 completely different game modes can be balanced without altering numbers/traits/abilities is just going to continue to cause issues. Sure those problems lots of times are gonna be pounced upon a lot sooner in SPVP where everyone is a min maxing psycho trying to find an advantage over the next guy, but it hurts the variety and fun factor in PVE and can even have harmful effects on WVW.

In short, i can take the 2-5 minutes it might take for me to adjust and learn how my abilities are different in each game mode…i’m not THAT lazy. Its more than worth it to be able to know when i feel like spvp, pve, wvw that i dont have to worry about entire builds suddenly being rendered useless.

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Posted by: Bailey.6892

Bailey.6892

I think it’s time to change the WvW ruleset to share spvp limitations, like a hard cap on crit damage bonus at 60% and using the spvp formula for confusion, which is pretty broken against players with the PvE one.

I disagree, WvW is the best their is out their imo. spvp is just like sitting out side of ogirmar dueling to me. WvW seems to have the more diverse builds and imo the funnest play style. Would hate to see it turned into something like spvp.

EDIT:
I am also nervous about the team doing anything like this…they have not exactly installed confidence in me based on the past. So yea having them touch the code worrues me.

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Posted by: Ostricheggs.3742

Ostricheggs.3742

I think it’s time to change the WvW ruleset to share spvp limitations, like a hard cap on crit damage bonus at 60% and using the spvp formula for confusion, which is pretty broken against players with the PvE one.

I disagree, WvW is the best their is out their imo. spvp is just like sitting out side of ogirmar dueling to me. WvW seems to have the more diverse builds and imo the funnest play style. Would hate to see it turned into something like spvp.

EDIT:
I am also nervous about the team doing anything like this…they have not exactly installed confidence in me based on the past. So yea having them touch the code worrues me.

They have the coding. Really it can be nothing but beneficial. Your description of SPvP as a side game shows that you’d really prefer to have it balanced separately.

How would it be a bad thing to split balance between the side-show of SPvP and WvW? You confuse me sir. You say you don’t like it, but you’d prefer your own preferred game type to be balanced under the same unbrella and thereby possibly effecting it negatively because of SPvP imbalances that don’t exist in WvW.

www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs Rank 71 PvP, over 10,000 tourneys played

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Posted by: Mif.3471

Mif.3471

A couple things:

  • For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

Considering WvW and PVE use the same skill values, yes you do.

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Posted by: Raptured.9307

Raptured.9307

I’m in support of making PVE and PVP balancing separate! Some classes that are a bit over the top in PVP are absolutely fine in PVE in their roles (Engineers, guards, eles, mesmers and perhaps rangers), while other classes lacking in PVE right now are fine/better than fine for PVP (thieves, rangers, and engineers). It would be unfair to one type of gameplay or the other to have a blanket buff/nerf especially when some players focus on one aspect of the game more than others.

Rank 37 spvp, dungeon master
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(edited by Raptured.9307)

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Posted by: JonathanSharp

Previous

JonathanSharp

Game Design Lead

A couple things:

  • For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

Considering WvW and PVE use the same skill values, yes you do.

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

IGN: Chaplan
“Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world.”
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Posted by: Mif.3471

Mif.3471

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

Excellent news

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Posted by: Geikamir.6329

Geikamir.6329

A couple things:

  • For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

Considering WvW and PVE use the same skill values, yes you do.

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

Very, very good news.

Toons: Foreseer, Geikamir, Rapscallion, Specimen, and Replica.

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Posted by: Minion of Vey.4398

Minion of Vey.4398

Ride the lightning nerfed to 20s from 15s should have been spvp only.

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Posted by: randomfightfan.4091

randomfightfan.4091

A couple things:

  • For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

Considering WvW and PVE use the same skill values, yes you do.

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

If what I think you’re saying is true then sir, you have a e-hug coming your way

Check out my page for some good thiefisms :)
http://www.youtube.com/user/randomfightfan/videos?view=0&flow=grid

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Posted by: ensoriki.5789

ensoriki.5789

Odd I have a bad feeling coming in.
Like nerfs….

The great forum duppy.

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Posted by: pulsecodesgnl.3470

pulsecodesgnl.3470

Odd I have a bad feeling coming in.
Like nerfs….

Same, more skill limitations, more zerg encouragement (e.g. 5-target caps), etc.

Unless it’s warrior of course. Double the damage, triple the boons, and quadruple the faceroll XD.

Voxtr | Svell | Kvikr | Svass | Sundr | Naud | Kvedja | Traust
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Posted by: declan.3968

declan.3968

Remove AOE cap, lower damage coefficient by 1/2 or 1/4 and add a control effect (daze, stun, knockdown) to powerful skills.

Please don’t Smiter’s Boon Mesmer portals. 90 seconds is long enough a cooldown.

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Posted by: Zinwrath.2049

Zinwrath.2049

A couple things:

  • For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

Considering WvW and PVE use the same skill values, yes you do.

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

Most of the changes in spvp that i’ve noticed are rune related. Is there consideration of balancing on amulets…..or will we see changes even to elites?

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Posted by: randomfightfan.4091

randomfightfan.4091

also could you give us a heads up to approximately these changes are expected to happen? End of the month? End of the week?

Check out my page for some good thiefisms :)
http://www.youtube.com/user/randomfightfan/videos?view=0&flow=grid

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Posted by: Nameo.6842

Nameo.6842

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

Some Glamour confusion mesmer nerf ? or maybe just a confusion nerf in WvW.
With condition duration food in WvW, confusion is just so long.
You can easily get 300-400 damage per skill, per stack, passing through 2 Glamour fields and you get 4 stacks for 10 seconds

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Posted by: KnattyDreads.1856

KnattyDreads.1856

Oh please don’t turn WvW into cookie cutter sPvP garbage. I can see it now…..

-Emhry Bay-
Call of Fate [CoF]

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Posted by: KnattyDreads.1856

KnattyDreads.1856

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

Splitting between PvP and PvE is understandable, but this news made me wince. I would have liked to see the dust settle before breaking WvW off into its own piece. It may be necessary, seeing as how we haven’t seen what changes are being considered, but I am apprehensive about this decision. I have always been a big fan of seeing my PvE build play out in WvW.

Nothing good will come of this, only nerfs.

-Emhry Bay-
Call of Fate [CoF]

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Posted by: Puandro.3245

Puandro.3245

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

Splitting between PvP and PvE is understandable, but this news made me wince. I would have liked to see the dust settle before breaking WvW off into its own piece. It may be necessary, seeing as how we haven’t seen what changes are being considered, but I am apprehensive about this decision. I have always been a big fan of seeing my PvE build play out in WvW.

Nothing good will come of this, only nerfs.

Some very much needed.

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Posted by: szthesquid.9576

szthesquid.9576

The more skills are split the more people are pressured to stick with 1 game mode. I don’t want to have to re-learn my class to try a new game mode, or keep track of 3 different variations of each skill.

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Posted by: Zinwrath.2049

Zinwrath.2049

The more skills are split the more people are pressured to stick with 1 game mode. I don’t want to have to re-learn my class to try a new game mode, or keep track of 3 different variations of each skill.

no offence but this sort of mentality just stinks of laziness. I mean, i hate having to learn a new dungeon or a new pvp map…lets not have any more of those either, learning takes too long and is too hard on my brain.

Thats what it sounds like. Its already this way, runes are different in spvp, rules are different in wvw, food items dont exist in spvp nor do racial abilities etc etc. No matter what you do in a game you have to take a few minutes to readjust and learn something new. So to suggest having to take those couple minutes to read the differences seems abnoxiously lazy in a game that already forces you to learn with every bit of content.

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Posted by: Deified.7520

Deified.7520

As Allie said, we want to be careful to balance their WvW/PvE potential against their PvP potential, and then inside of PvP, we have to be careful to watch how they perform at high ranks vs. low ranks.

This is a scary idea that I’ve heard bounced around quite a bit from the devs. To be perfectly blunt, it’s also a pretty stupid idea.

To say that PvP and PvE/WvW are different is a complete understatement. The goals, gearing and playerbase are so vastly different that to balance 8 classes around both sides of the mists is impossible. It cannot be repeated enough. BALANCING AROUND BOTH PVP AND PVE IS IMPOSSIBLE, WE WILL NEVER BE SATISFIED IF YOU CONTINUE THIS TREND!

Take for example, gearing. In WvW I can get a ridiculous 120% crit damage with full zerkers and two ascended rings. That’s not even the max you can get. That is quite literally double the amount of crit damage I’m able to get in the mists. In addition, with runes of altruism, I can maintain 20-25 stacks of might to get a ridiculous 3400 power, 120% crit damage and 65% crit. Are you kittening kidding me? How are you going to balance around THAT when I can only get 3k power and 30% crit damage and 50% crit in my glassiest build in the mists. It literally hits half as hard.

Those are hard numbers. It’s also only one of the very many differences that the devs seem oblivious of. The least of which is how completely rabid the playerbase of PvP is in comparison to the lackadaisical semi-casuals in PvE (not to seem insulting, I know that PvE has its hardcore players as well, there are just a relatively low proportion of them in comparison to PvP)

One of the largest differences lies in the fact that the needs of PvP balance are far different than the needs of PvE balance. In PvP, winning revolves around time. How quickly one person moves from one point to the next is, in my opinion, THE factor that makes eles overpowered in the current meta because no other class is able to fill that roll. Speed and time are huge factors that don’t exist as major balance issues in PvE, so how do you balance both? You also have to deal with the fact that this is an attrition based game with each individual player dealing with their own health pool and rarely with that of their team. You do not whittle down a boss mob like you do another set of 5 players. To balance around both ideas just boggles the mind.

Balance indifference’s will never bother a PvE’er as much as a PvP’er. A PvP player is always trying to win at the cost of another players loss. That’s the definition of PvP. When a PvPer loses to another player running what he considers imbalanced it is far more stress inducing than when a PvE’er notices that class Y does more damage and stays alive longer than him. It is continually rubbed in the face of the PvPer watching his team get destroyed by what he perceives as imbalance and therefore requires a more sensitive and frequent approach. While I’m not touting the much talked about whack-a-mole method, I’m pointing out that inaction in the field of balance will kitten off the PvPer much, MUCH more than the PvEer.

TL;DR The reason why people are so kitten off about balance in PvP, the reason why hoards of loyal players quit, who repeatedly say guild wars has one of the best combat systems in any mmo, and cite balance issues, the reason why you’ll never, ever, ever ever ever ever ever ever EVER have a thriving PvP game is because of your inane insistence that PvE and PvP MUST be the same.

The simple reality is that they are not the same.

They’ve done changes to balance in previous patches in which they separated PvE/WvW and PvP. Recently they said they are separating PvE and WvW, hopefully this also means PvE. I do agree with you. The way the combat system is setup and the fact that each playstyle is like comparing an orange to a cup of water. They are so vastly different and the playstyles are so different that they need to balance them separately .

It's time to balance PvP apart from PvE/WvW

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Posted by: ensoriki.5789

ensoriki.5789

The more skills are split the more people are pressured to stick with 1 game mode. I don’t want to have to re-learn my class to try a new game mode, or keep track of 3 different variations of each skill.

no offence but this sort of mentality just stinks of laziness. I mean, i hate having to learn a new dungeon or a new pvp map…lets not have any more of those either, learning takes too long and is too hard on my brain.

Thats what it sounds like. Its already this way, runes are different in spvp, rules are different in wvw, food items dont exist in spvp nor do racial abilities etc etc. No matter what you do in a game you have to take a few minutes to readjust and learn something new. So to suggest having to take those couple minutes to read the differences seems abnoxiously lazy in a game that already forces you to learn with every bit of content.

It’s not really the same and I understand what he’s talking about.
However so long as they are functionally the same, he won’t have to really relearn the skill. Unless the number changes are really huge.

The great forum duppy.

(edited by ensoriki.5789)

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Posted by: Apolo.5942

Apolo.5942

Well they could try to Instead of separating the stats and sets, which imbalances how the same skill acts in one setting vs the other, merge them together as they did in GW1.
Values will be the same, damage out put and intake will be about the same, may be ramp def a little, god knows no one gives a crap about wearing a tshirt vs a full plate in this game any way, and you valance from there. Sure you will get builds that are popular for one setting and builds that are poppular for the other setting, at least you will have a base line to draw comparisons from.

A skill that triggers on crit, does not work the same way when you can easily come up with 100% crit with out sacrificing your other stats vs that forcing you to for go the others. It just does not happen.

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Posted by: DanH.5879

DanH.5879

A couple things:

  • For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

Considering WvW and PVE use the same skill values, yes you do.

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

the best decision you could make, i am happy
i do not understand why it took so long… but better late than never

all the heavy nerfs thief received in pve received just because of wvw/pvp
…just no comment

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Posted by: Juxtapositronic.1405

Juxtapositronic.1405

PLEASE undo some of the spvp focused nerfs you’ve done. I hate to be so callous, but it seems like most of the nerfs were made to appease loud-mouthed carebear trolls who have no idea how to play. Good players have thought this game was relatively balanced from a month after release; further nerfs just tend to hamstring classes and make them less appealing.

With some exceptions, obviously. (such as stealth capping in wvw)

For example, the old pistol whip nerf on thieves can be undone, given the recent changes to B-venom, etc.

Jack Lolwand [LUN]

(edited by Juxtapositronic.1405)

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Posted by: Jalad Lantana.3027

Jalad Lantana.3027

I will point out the dead horse the Arenanet employees are tippy toeing around, Rangers and Engineers need to be re-adjusted in PVE so they are relevant. I don’t play an Engineer so I can’t speak for them, but I do play a ranger. Please give Rangers back full Zypher in PVE. Spend some quality time on giving the classe some skills or combos to Rangers that have value to a dungeon PVE team. As it stands now, PVE teams have no reason to add Rangers to a team. Otherwise all this discussion is a bunch of styling and BS.

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Posted by: Ostricheggs.3742

Ostricheggs.3742

I will point out the dead horse the Arenanet employees are tippy toeing around, Rangers and Engineers need to be re-adjusted in PVE so they are relevant. I don’t play an Engineer so I can’t speak for them, but I do play a ranger. Please give Rangers back full Zypher in PVE. Spend some quality time on giving the classe some skills or combos to Rangers that have value to a dungeon PVE team. As it stands now, PVE teams have no reason to add Rangers to a team. Otherwise all this discussion is a bunch of styling and BS.

Wrong forums, friend.

www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs Rank 71 PvP, over 10,000 tourneys played

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Posted by: Ballistic Tomato.3908

Ballistic Tomato.3908

A couple things:

  • For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

Considering WvW and PVE use the same skill values, yes you do.

We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.

But we want them to be things that keep consistency across the game types as much as possible.

at last.. an end to the end of wrecking the PVE for the sake of balancing PVP (I hope)

It's time to balance PvP apart from PvE/WvW

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Posted by: robotempire.2451

robotempire.2451

The more skills are split the more people are pressured to stick with 1 game mode. I don’t want to have to re-learn my class to try a new game mode, or keep track of 3 different variations of each skill.

no offence but this sort of mentality just stinks of laziness.

Most people play video games as a form of leisure. The dude just doesn’t want to spend his leisure time that way. That’s not “laziness” that’s just called “having an opinion”.

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Posted by: TheGuy.3568

TheGuy.3568

I am sorry but might as well say it. kitten consistency. Fact is nobody likes skills balanced for PvE and PvP at the same time. Lets be frank your costumers hate it. The vast majority of players are PvE players. There is reason to shun the vast majority for the minority. At the same time the minority and its needs should not be ignored. There is a perfectly viable option in splitting skills de facto. The only people who have issue with this is you. And honestly given the fact that most games at some point come to this decision one way or the other why delay? I believe the devs should stick to their guns on many things the player base disagrees with them about. This is not one of those issues.

This is common sense. Split the skills, please your customers, and improve game play and anxiety for all. I think we are all a little tired of seeing PvE nerfs over PvP. It’s bullkitten and excuse my language but it is bullkitten no, if, ands, or buts about it. You are hurting your player base and there is no reason for it.

Kor The Cold Heart War
Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele

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Posted by: Geikamir.6329

Geikamir.6329

The more skills are split the more people are pressured to stick with 1 game mode. I don’t want to have to re-learn my class to try a new game mode, or keep track of 3 different variations of each skill.

no offence but this sort of mentality just stinks of laziness.

Most people play video games as a form of leisure. The dude just doesn’t want to spend his leisure time that way. That’s not “laziness” that’s just called “having an opinion”.

Just because it’s his opinion doesn’t mean it’s not laziness. Complaining that you have to learn things to be most effective is most definitely lazy

Toons: Foreseer, Geikamir, Rapscallion, Specimen, and Replica.