sPvP, balance, a little philosophy, and life.

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Posted by: JonathanSharp

JonathanSharp

Game Design Lead

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“Our life always expresses the result of our dominant thoughts.” -Soren Kierkegaard

Sup! + Pax
Thanks to everyone who was able to make it to the Pax finals!! It was a blast and getting to meet both of the teams (and a ton of other players) was really fun! It was a lot of work, but the program went pretty well overall. Sorry to both of the teams about the tech issues we were having/sound issues. Those things happen, but I’m still sorry about them.

There’s been a lot of…”fire/passion” on the forums lately so I wanted to take some time to address some things. As I’ve stated before, we’re usually really busy trying to get things (like Pax) to happen, but we love to post when we’re able. We read MOST of what’s on the forums, but we seldom have time to reply to each individual thread.

So, I thought I’d try something. I’m gonna try to address a multitude of issues that have been raised on the forums in this post, rather than responding to each of the threads individually. As you can imagine, it’s much easier to respond to everything in one post/thread, rather than trying to keep up with multiple threads.

I’ll break it up into sections so it’s easier to read, as walls of text have a habit of not being very reader friendly.

LESSGO!

For the love of the game
Some have said that we (the devs) just don’t care about the game. This, I can tell you, could not be further from the truth. We LOVE this game like crazy. You guys may be frustrated that a feature isn’t in, or that something’s not perfect, but it DRIVES US NUTS. It keeps us up at night. We wake up thinking about them and writing “to do” lists in our heads as we drive to work every day.

Unfortunately we can’t just snap our fingers and fix everything. We have to take all known issues, prioritize them, and then start dealing with them an issue at a time. That process looks something like this: we do a design of the feature, requisite resources are requested, the feature is implemented, iterated upon, tested, polished, and then released. For a game the size of an MMO, these things take time. We’re not a small game that can move/change/adapt quickly. An MMO is more like a massive ship – it takes time to change direction. Many systems/pieces/features in the game also impact one another, so we have to be very careful in what we change and how.

We’re very passionate about the game, and we want it to be the best game possible. We love the players and we love the game. Just because you don’t get what you want, right when you want it, doesn’t mean we don’t care. We’re just very busy doing a LOT of things, because a TON has to happen behind the scenes to get an MMO built and updated.

Sometimes it may seem like we aren’t listening, or we don’t respond to your posts. But a TON of things could be at work. Don’t assume that just because we don’t change things exactly when you want them changed that we’re ignoring you or don’t care about your opinions and thoughts.

We aren’t Data
We get tired. Emotional. Fatigued. Excited. You name it. Ask any dev from any game, and they’ll tell you – they’ve been through it all in order to ship a game. And just like you (who are also not robots), we take vacations. We hit caps where we’re just so tired that we need to back off, recharge, take a vacation, and then come back to the project.

We have tough skin when it comes to taking criticism, but an overabundance of negativity on the forums can still take a toll on anyone. This is simply natural. It’s the same for the president (who I’m sure hears a TON of opinions about how he’s doing his job), any athlete who plays in the public eye, any artist, any performer. You want criticism so that you can improve, but you also have to develop a tough skin so that negative feedback doesn’t keep you from being functional. Sometimes this means you take a break from negative sources of feedback.

The Pax event took a TON of time/planning/prep from many people, and due to that, a lot of us are taking slight breaks right now. If you don’t see as much activity on the forums for a bit, that’s why!

IGN: Chaplan
“Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world.”
-Arthur Schopenhauer

(edited by JonathanSharp.7094)

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JonathanSharp

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Balance
So during the shoutcast, Grouch and I kept joking about the “petting zoo”. It was funny. A lot of people laughed. But in the back of my mind, I knew we already had some balance changes coming to address it (you’ll see those tomorrow). My mentality was: let’s just have fun, and make it as enjoyable as possible for the viewers. I’ve seen posts saying we like that style of play, we want to have tons of AI builds in the meta, and we don’t care at all about balance or how the game looks/plays. I’ve seen posts stating that I think the petting zoo is funny and that we want nothing but AI driven-builds to be played in the meta (or some other crazy stuff). That’s simply untrue.

So the Ranger will be seeing some changes to the spirit build. We’re being very mindful to carefully shave it so that:

  1. We don’t hurt other areas of the game where the build may not be a problem, as it is in PvP, and
  2. We’ve already seen counters to this build showing up (there’s a thread talking about the Warrior countering this build, and to what degree) in the meta.

So, we will be “shaving” the build a little (we don’t want to over-correct the issue) and seeing how the meta adapts.

Here are some other things we keep in mind as we’re balancing things:

Perception of balance. Perception (there’s that pesky word again) of balance is very important. The last major update saw the Warrior getting some tools that we, the balance team, perceived to be enough to warrant their inclusion in the current meta. At first, a lot of people felt they still weren’t good enough. But now, with no other balance work, people are starting to figure out that the Warrior DOES have the tools to help a team, even in a heavy condition meta. The perception of the Warrior changed. This is why we try not to “whack a mole” balance – we like to give you guys time for your perceptions to mature in any given meta, rather than over balancing the game. Are we perfect? Hell no. We try our best to predict where our changes will take the metagame, and then let you guys flow with the game as the meta evolves.

“Bad for the player, but good for the game”. Alright. Story time. The game dev community is a pretty small place, and a lot of devs know one another. We are lucky enough to have game nights with guys from WOTC (they make Magic:TG) and I got into a great conversation with one of their devs. I was talking about balancing an MMO vs a CCG, and we were swapping lessons/ideas back and forth on the things we’ve learned. I asked him about the mana system, mulligans, and how much I hated them as a player. I hate winning because my opponent mulligans, and I hate losing because of them. I asked him what he thought about that. His answer, in a word, was amazing. He said (paraphrasing), “Ya, that random sucks. Mulligans, mana floods (getting too much mana, but not enough “action” cards) and mana screws (not getting enough mana) all suck. But they add this element where anyone has a shot in any game. Basically, those things are bad for the player, but they’re good for the game.” I thought it was a great way of summing up what happens when we, as devs, have to balance various classes in an MMO. It may suck to have YOUR build and YOUR class slightly brought down in power, but, here’s the thing, it’s good for the game at large. So don’t think that we hate X class. We love all the classes. But sometimes we need to adjust a few things in order to protect the health of the overall game.

Shaving vs Whack a mole. We want to “shave” as much as possible, and not do massive improvements/reductions to classes. This means making slight tweaks to classes, rather than massive changes which can upset the balance of the game. A lot of times we use spreadsheets, generate the baselines for a given type of skill, and then bring the outliers up or down, depending on where they hit. Sometimes very slight tweaks can have massive implications.

IGN: Chaplan
“Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world.”
-Arthur Schopenhauer

(edited by JonathanSharp.7094)

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Posted by: Fernling.1729

Fernling.1729

I actually feel bad for you, Chap. You seem like such a great guy, but get the kitten end of things because SPvP isn’t important enough for Anet’s resources. I just hope they don’t blame you for this mess.

I haven’t taken PvP in this game serious since launch, but I’m still checking in(all the time) in hopes that things will change in my favor.

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JonathanSharp

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The 3 different game types and splitting skills. Splitting skills between all 3 of our game types (PvE, PvP, WvW) is very costly – it takes more time to split the skills, and then upkeep the split skills. Instead of upkeeping 1 version of a skill, whenever you make future changes, you now have to make sure all 3 are appropriately balanced for their respective game types. This is very powerful, and something we did in GW1 when we felt we needed it. We just need to be careful not to do it too much, or it means the balance team is literally balancing 3 entire games. As Freamon (from “The Wire”, btw if you haven’t seen “The Wire”, stop whatever it is you’re doing and go watch it. Unless you’re giving birth. In that case…wait until you’re done, then watch it immediately afterwards. Oh, and get your new son/daughter to watch it when they’re old enough.) usually reminded the other members of the cast, “All the pieces matter.” The different pieces of GW2 all impact the other pieces, and it’s something we must always bear in mind.

Chap’s woefully ill-conceived attempt at a metaphor on why we don’t spilt all skills off the bat: Imagine you’re in school, and in order to make sure you learn languages at an even pace, you have to split everything you do into 3 languages. For me, let’s say it’s English, Japanese and Latin (No, Greek, I liked learning Greek more than Latin). You start off answering a question on a test in 3 different languages. You rock. But then you do it more and more often. For every note you take in a lecture, you have to write it in 3 different languages. For every paper you write, you have to write it in 3 languages. For all homework, you have to do it in 3 languages. Every test. Every quiz. It may seem small at first, but if you’re not careful, you’re doing three times the work as normal.

Game types
So a lot of you want new game types. We’ve heard you. We’re prototyping more of them right now. But, as Colin said at the panel, we have to be careful. We learned a lot from GW1. We learned that having too many game types can split up the player base. But, if you’re not careful, just having 1 game type may not be enough variety. You’ve got to find that perfect spot.

Deathmatch. I like DM, but I’m much more interested in objective based DM. “Go in a room and kill a dude” was fun when I was playing Doom/Quake/Unreal, but even those, as simple games, still had map control and buff/armor control. Just giving two players the same guns/armors, putting them in a room, and saying “Ok go” just isn’t as fun to play. Those other elements add a lot to the game. The most competitive/successful games in recent history all share these “secondary” objectives as well (they aren’t STRICTLY Deathmatch):

  • In CS, that was the bomb/hostages. CoD (and similar games) still retain similar objectives to this day. Killing your opponent is still integral, but the secondary objectives “force” action.
  • In RTS, it’s the resources (micro arena is fun, but it’s not nearly as fun to play or watch as having to also manage resources/scout/build the right tech, etc.). The resources force action.
  • In Mobas, it’s all about controlling lanes, pushing towers, and controlling the jungle. It’s not just “go in a room and shoot a dude with your skills”. That’s fun, but I think the other elements add more strategy and tactics to the game, and make them more fun to play.

So for us, when we’re designing game types, we’re thinking about these things. DM is still a fun and exciting part of conquest, but I know you guys want more – we’re working on it.

IGN: Chaplan
“Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world.”
-Arthur Schopenhauer

(edited by JonathanSharp.7094)

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Posted by: Fuzion.7613

Fuzion.7613

You guys kittened up the pax tourny, That is all.

Fuzion
Necro – Team U S A [USA]

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Posted by: Deimos Tel Arin.7391

Deimos Tel Arin.7391

Fernling! you broke the combo! XD

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Posted by: Rozbuska.5263

Rozbuska.5263

Man stop reading forums and enjoy your vacations:-)

Rozbuska – Engineer – [LotM] Legends of the Mists – [EU] Seafarer’s Rest
[PvE]Dungeon Speedbuild - [WvW]Zerg Badgemachine - [PvP]Roflbunker
My Legendaries: The Predator | Frenzy | Quip | The Flameseeker Prophecies

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Posted by: Fernling.1729

Fernling.1729

Fernling! you broke the combo! XD

Whoa! Do I win something?!

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Posted by: Lupanic.6502

Lupanic.6502

We also love the game. Thank you for your great work. I enjoy every minute at Gw2.

Work hard have fun.

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Posted by: zone.1073

zone.1073

Balance, bug fixes, content updates – these are all routine and normal things expected from any game. I think the most important of all subjects, though, is population. Is PvP growing in population, and is effort being put into helping the population grow. Nothing can be more disheartening than the thought of playing a dead or dying game.

Whether it was a success or not, I see Pax Prime as a demonstration of effort being put into helping PvP grow. It was great to know that ArenaNet is visibly trying to spread the word and get people interested in PvP. More of this kind of effort can only be a good thing for the community.

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JonathanSharp

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Sync/CC/The community at large
These guys were awesome. I just wanted to say a quick thank you to the teams (Car Crash and Sync, you guys are amazing), and everyone else who was involved with the tournament (thanks for the help Supcutie!). Everyone who helped with Mist League. Everyone who helps w/ all the podcasts and state of the game. I’d also like to thank all 64 teams that came out for the tournament.

Our game isn’t perfect. There will always be something we want to change, or we want to improve. Contrary to what you hear on the forums, the #’s for the PvP game is actually steadily growing. Some players are learning, but a lot of new players are coming into the game. We’re going to keep working to make the game the best it can be, and you guys have already demonstrated your great love and passion for the game. I know you guys get frustrated and feel the need to vent on the forums. I can see that. As a player of many competitive games, I get that. But we’re going to keep pushing.

We know we wouldn’t be here without you. We know we’re going to need your help and support as we get ready to climb the next mountain. We’ve heard a lot of your ideas and concerns.

  • We are reworking rewards for PvP.
  • We’re working on new game types.
  • We’re planning more tournaments and working with a lot of well-known entities in order to help the game grow.
  • We’re working to improve the teaching aspects of the game, and to make the game more easily understood.

When I see you guys posting on the forums about how upset you are about X or Y, I know that deep down most of you are saying: “Kitten dang it, this game could be good. There are just these things that are holding it back, fix this stuff please so that this game we love can grow!“

We feel your passion and frustration. We share it. So the next time you make a post and get kitten ed off that a dev doesn’t post, just remember that a lot of times, we’re talking about it at our desks, or in a meeting room, or on our way to lunch. We can’t fix things instantly, but we’re doing as much as we can, as efficiently as we can, with the time and resources we have. At the end of the day, all you can do is all you can do.

I can remember being a kid, sitting in my father’s study, going through his books, trying to understand what he saw in them. On his wall, next to the window which overlooked our back yard, was a framed picture, with this caption below it:

“God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”

I get it now. And, older than I was then, I realize how little time we have on this planet. So now I’ve learned to pick my battles, and invest my time only in things that I feel, after careful consideration, warrant the coin of my life – my time. (“Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you.” -Carl Sandburg)

I think Guild Wars 2 is worth my passion, and that’s why I, like my fellow devs, work so kitten something that isn’t perfect. It’s still a work in progress, there are still SO many things we want to do with this game, and places we want to take it.

So if you get frustrated at the pace we’re making, or if you just need to take a break so you can try another game, or if you wait on something to be fixed the way you want it, that’s fine. We’ll keep working with our heads down, our minds churning, and our ears open, trying to make GW2 the best game it can be.

And we’ll be here when you get back.

-Chap

PS – Watch “The Wire”.

Notes:

  • Suggested music while reading http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPWvpDm076o
  • TL:DR – We love this game. We’re listening to you. We don’t post in every thread because we’re busy. Thank you for being so passionate about our game. Life is short – enjoy it. And you should watch “The Wire”.
  • This post was written while taking breaks to cut up proxies and sleeve them for a Legacy storm deck (ANT storm), so I can practice for SCG Legacy Seattle.
  • This post was written while under the effects of Radiohead and tea, earl grey, hot.
IGN: Chaplan
“Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world.”
-Arthur Schopenhauer

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Posted by: Darnis.4056

Darnis.4056

C-c-c-c-c-c-combobreaker?
Nice one fernling

Keep on chugging Jon; we all want this game to thrive.

Team [PUMA]Carry Squad
“When you come at the King, you best not miss”
~Pink Puma, Skyhammer Queen.

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Posted by: Hammerheart.1426

Hammerheart.1426

I’m writing this FROM WORK ON LABOR DAY.

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Posted by: zone.1073

zone.1073

As for balance, I feel like more quality of life changes is better than huge mechanical changes or even minor mechanical “shaving”. For example, warrior banners are very cool, except for the fact that picking them up stuns the player for 2 seconds, the #5 banner skill stuns the player for 2 seconds, teammates can steal the banner and run off with it (no way of forcibly taking the banner back), etc. Instead of total mechanical revamps, I think more quality of life changes that improve the usability of builds is more efficient at balancing the game.

(edited by zone.1073)

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Posted by: gwawer.9805

gwawer.9805

ok jon chaplan you shave the spirit build and i’ll shave your back

we’ll see tomorrow

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Posted by: Ostricheggs.3742

Ostricheggs.3742

preach it brah.

Nerds will be nerds. There’s a simple-minded perception amongst all online gamers that game devs are the boogy-men silently plotting to ruin the game. They are the scape-goats, never the heroes.

I know A-net isn’t perfect. No game is perfect and so no game developer will be perfect. But this game has become better and I have full faith it’ll be even better over time. Every recent patch outside the dhuumfire patch has moved in the right direction.

And about that meta… People begged for viable builds for necros and warriors. Spirit rangers had a couple of traits amalgamated with like two buffs and suddenly they’re the most broken thing to ever exist. This kitten happens. No one knew that when you mix together two traits and increase the active radius on spirits they’d be broke as kitten. It’ll get fixed.

PATIENCE

www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs Rank 71 PvP, over 10,000 tourneys played

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Posted by: Krayiss.4926

Krayiss.4926

we knew 1 minute into the patch it was, nice one tho ossie-boy

Necro 10/30/0/0/30 7/26

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Posted by: Xom.9264

Xom.9264

  • We’re working on new game types.

Thats all you need do, deathmatch and the PvP community will grow.

Xomox ~Human Necro/Engineer [BS] Basic of ET
GvG Forum : https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/community/events

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Posted by: EoNxBoNx.9213

EoNxBoNx.9213

Guess we will see what happens tomorrow. I really do want to see this game succeed, and do well.

“You’re either a Noob or a Pro your entire life, that’s life”
IGN – Kinjax // World – Anvil Rock
IGN – InTheseDays // World – Anvil Rock

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Posted by: Fernling.1729

Fernling.1729

  • We’re working on new game types.

Thats all you need do, deathmatch and the PvP community will grow.

I really think they are underestimating deathmatch.

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Posted by: Azunai.5974

Azunai.5974

He’s the hero Tyria deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we’ll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he’s not our hero. He’s a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.

Resident deaf elementalist – Tarnished Coast
Everyone needs a little optimism!

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Posted by: butch.8136

butch.8136

  • We’re working on new game types.

Thats all you need do, deathmatch and the PvP community will grow.

I really think they are underestimating deathmatch.

Nope, I completely agree on his point here. Deathmatch doesn’t work. It sounds nice, but i wouldn’t work.

Razor xxxx (Desolation ; SoTB)
Bring back: ‘Gamer’ title + MAT’s!
Throw out: Hotjoin!

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Posted by: selan.8354

selan.8354

thank you for the update. its good to see a post from u like this.
still wondering if classes will get a big revamp at some point. there is some stuff that might be not really fixable.
maybe mesmers would love to be more than just a duelist that is a veil/portal tw bot in wvw that cannot tag well. maybe thieves are tired of ganking dolyaks. eles are tired of being water field bots. maybe stunlock warriors are too much in wvw.maybe fear is too much in wvw.
so keep up the work! i really like this game and would love to see u guys succeed with this.

btw, please burn rune of perplexity or fix it as the 6th rune kinda feels like a slap in the face for me as a confusion mesmer!!

(edited by selan.8354)

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Posted by: JTan.1687

JTan.1687

Wow i cant wait for the PvP reward! I love Gw2 Tpvp Solo pvp this it the only thing i do.

Rank 60
Rank 4th on Total Team Tourney Wins
Rank 28th on solo q wins.
I just hope you guys make the rankings more accurate because i play everyday while those at the top dont play and they got all the glory. :P

Super Mang Jose,Naomi j,Chzerie,Despicable Me
Champion Genius, Legionnaire, Paragon, Hunter, Illusionist,Phantom.
Undercoverism[UC]

(edited by JTan.1687)

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

jon (can i call you jon?), i feel horrible for having to point out one bad thing after all the effort you put into this post, but it has to be said:

next time you’re casting, don’t repeat the same joke so many times. it gets really awkward.

there, i said it. now i can rest my mind knowing that the message has been delivered :P

LegendaryMythril, aka Zihark Darshell, the last of the P/D PvP thieves.

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Posted by: Avead.5760

Avead.5760

Well..ok i ll bite it and it and wont qq for petting zoos and pvpers being second class citizens (apparently i missed the big drama yesterday .. )
At least you got good taste in tv and music

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Posted by: Hammerheart.1426

Hammerheart.1426

The 3 different game types and splitting skills. Splitting skills between all 3 of our game types (PvE, PvP, WvW) is very costly – it takes more time to split the skills, and then upkeep the split skills. Instead of upkeeping 1 version of a skill, whenever you make future changes, you now have to make sure all 3 are appropriately balanced for their respective game types. This is very powerful, and something we did in GW1 when we felt we needed it. We just need to be careful not to do it too much, or it means the balance team is literally balancing 3 entire games. As Freamon (from “The Wire”, btw if you haven’t seen “The Wire”, stop whatever it is you’re doing and go watch it. Unless you’re giving birth. In that case…wait until you’re done, then watch it immediately afterwards. Oh, and get your new son/daughter to watch it when they’re old enough.) usually reminded the other members of the cast, “All the pieces matter.” The different pieces of GW2 all impact the other pieces, and it’s something we must always bear in mind.

I am having the hardest time swallowing this. So lets try to break it down point by point and see if I can understand it.

Splitting skills between all 3 of our game types (PvE, PvP, WvW) is very costly – it takes more time to split the skills, and then upkeep the split skills.

It might take more time, but wouldn’t the end result be harmony for all the game types involved? I know I hate when PvE antics impact my PvP abilities because one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. They are two completely different mindsets and playstyles. And I know thakittens the same sentiment in reverse.

Instead of upkeeping 1 version of a skill, whenever you make future changes, you now have to make sure all 3 are appropriately balanced for their respective game types.

If you did split them into 3 different types for 1 skill, why would you change them all simulatenously if there was a balance issue in only 1 or 2 of the game types, why would you not just balance it for THOSE types and leave the others unaffected?

We just need to be careful not to do it too much, or it means the balance team is literally balancing 3 entire games.

Again, if the end result is the playerbase playing a balanced game no matter the game type, why is extra time involved a bad thing? If a skill is imbalanced in PvE, why would you assume that it is imbalanced in PvP?

“All the pieces matter.” The different pieces of GW2 all impact the other pieces, and it’s something we must always bear in mind.

Except that the pieces are only affecting the other game types because you let them. They don’t need to, and they shouldn’t.

Someone please give me some clarification, I am not a coder, nor a programmer, nor a developer, so perhaps a gamers perspective just isn’t enough in this situation. But it seems like such a simple solution to have the skills split. Where is the actual cost, or is the reality that you guys simply don’t want to put in the time/effort to split them?

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Posted by: Bri.8354

Bri.8354

Thank you for the communication, its very appreciated! I can get really frustrated at times with issues in the game, but whenever I listen to the SoTG or read a post like this, it assures me that you guys have improvements planned, know what you’re doing, and have the best interests of the game at heart.

And on the topic of PvP game modes. I’m sure you can fit in a few more without creating a population issue like you had in GW1 because the current modes do not appeal to everyone. I for instance do not really enjoy capture the point in SPvP and WvW doesn’t offer fair competition which keeps me away from it outside of guild runs, so I’m without a PvP game mode I can fully enjoy and participate in.

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

it’s amazing the change in tone of the forums when the devs show and talk a lot. you’d think god himself has made an appearance, judging by the change from “OH MY GOD THIS IS SO DOOMED” to “OH THANK YOU I CAN’T WAIT FOR IT”.

LegendaryMythril, aka Zihark Darshell, the last of the P/D PvP thieves.

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Posted by: natsos.3692

natsos.3692

That was a very nice wall of text Jon, I appreciate the time you took to write it down, it was very touching and I understand exactly how you feel, because it is how the majority of the community feels right now : it is a great game, with huge potential and with quite a few things that spoil it.

Altho even on this touching post I still have to make my critique. I am a human being after all and I have the ability to think and judge.

What I really need to say is that you guys are trying your best, but as I see it you are too eager to bring us the cool stuff (like PAX) while you leave behind the basics,which is Balance, Bugs, Mode variety and other stuff.
I will be straight on this. I DON’T want this game to become e-sports in the current state.
I want to see the game I love polished, stable and evergrowing. The fact that we sit on the same worst meta since launch for 2 whole months because of a (pretty big) tournament hurt the game more than all the good PAX did.

Please consider going back to basics, take a good look about how SPvP used to be and how it is now, after doing so you will be holding that crystal sphere that predicts the future.

Also consider having more guys for Q&A for SPvP(maybe WvW too) since this guy is doing a great job and keeping the community flame alive and burning.

Thank you for your time and everything you have done so far , excuse our ways of promoting our rage and excuse my not-so-good English.

Natsos, Necromancer
Officer of Spartians GR[SPGR]
Gandara EU

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Posted by: Avead.5760

Avead.5760

it’s amazing the change in tone of the forums when the devs show and talk a lot. you’d think god himself has made an appearance, judging by the change from “OH MY GOD THIS IS SO DOOMED” to “OH THANK YOU I CAN’T WAIT FOR IT”.

People need attention,thats all

So if you get frustrated at the pace we’re making, or if you just need to take a break so you can try another game, or if you wait on something to be fixed the way you want it, that’s fine. We’ll keep working with our heads down, our minds churning, and our ears open, trying to make GW2 the best game it can be.

And we’ll be here when you get back.

Wait are you saying we should quit ??
Lol jk! But that was definately made under the influence of some heavy kitten ..dont fool me it was just tea

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Posted by: Azunai.5974

Azunai.5974

So Jon, when you say Anet reads most of the forums, does that include the profession subforums? Every profession has something to cry about (except guardians. huh.) this I understand, but sometimes it feels like they’re completely ignored considering how long they’ve gone without a red post. I completely understand that you guys are restricted by time, but a post now and then would be nice.

That said, I thought it was cool that you guys discuss some of the stuff on the forums around the place. Heck, I’d be totally stoked if some of you guys mentioned this thread https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/elementalist/Rifle-Skills-for-Elementalists/first#post2758754 around the water cooler!

Resident deaf elementalist – Tarnished Coast
Everyone needs a little optimism!

(edited by Azunai.5974)

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Posted by: Red.3572

Red.3572

“When you walk through the garden, you better watch your back…” The Blind Boys from Alabama should have prepared you! I understand the pressures of a dev for sure, and for the record, you do exceedingly good work… However, I’m not at work now so I can ask for things from Santa all I want!

Spare a little thought for our old friend the Z Key! Just in case you missed it among the bigger things!

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/pvp/pvp/Idea-Return-Zaishen-Key-s-to-PvP/first#post2754209

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Posted by: piffdaddy.8014

piffdaddy.8014

  • We’re working on new game types.

Thats all you need do, deathmatch and the PvP community will grow.

I really think they are underestimating deathmatch.

I agree. Some type of deathmatch with maybe small power up buffs would be amazing. So amazing. Please Jon give it a chance!

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

it’s amazing the change in tone of the forums when the devs show and talk a lot. you’d think god himself has made an appearance, judging by the change from “OH MY GOD THIS IS SO DOOMED” to “OH THANK YOU I CAN’T WAIT FOR IT”.

People need attention,thats all

i know, it’s my odd way of saying that maybe, even if it slows things a tiny bit, it’s worth it to come around more often to chat.

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Posted by: Knote.2904

Knote.2904

Holy jesus this was a monster of a post, seriously this is what everyone wanted.

Just hearing “But, if you’re not careful, just having 1 game type may not be enough variety. You’ve got to find that perfect spot.” Alone is just….. huge, this single quote would’ve put a stop to anyone thinking “Oh anet still thinks only conquest is the way to go..”.

So this was really amazing to see, I honestly had thought the devs didn’t really care that much about the pvp side of the game that much. Like I went from almost completely losing hope for this side of the game to being as hopeful as I’ve ever been lol.

If at all possible you should get just 1 person to be the voice on the forums for you guys, just to keep the communication flowing even when the actual devs can’t, even if that means getting a trustworthy volunteer.

Oh and totally agree with you on objective deathmatch, that’s essentially what MOBA’S are, you’re right, and it is better, where the killing/fighting is the primary focus and the objectives just add that spice.

it’s amazing the change in tone of the forums when the devs show and talk a lot. you’d think god himself has made an appearance, judging by the change from “OH MY GOD THIS IS SO DOOMED” to “OH THANK YOU I CAN’T WAIT FOR IT”.

People need attention,thats all

i know, it’s my odd way of saying that maybe, even if it slows things a tiny bit, it’s worth it to come around more often to chat.

Exactly, communication is soooo important.

Like, if a godly, messiah of a balance patch were to happen in 1 month but no one knew about it and was just left in the dark for so long there would be a lot of anger, but if there was a ton of communication about it and it took 2 months things would be peachy.

I can’t say it enough, Riot does this extremely well.

(edited by Knote.2904)

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Posted by: Daishi.6027

Daishi.6027

He said (paraphrasing), “Ya, that random sucks. Mulligans, mana floods (getting too much mana, but not enough “action” cards) and mana screws (not getting enough mana) all suck. But they add this element where anyone has a shot in any game. Basically, those things are bad for the player, but they’re good for the game.” I thought it was a great way of summing up what happens when we, as devs, have to balance various classes in an MMO.

@JonathanSharp

Thanks for a response <3

I don’t quite understand your terms for balance. your CCG example was a good one when explaining how everyone should have a shot, but that was under the context of randomess. So I gotta ask is the design intent for any class or build to realistically be able beat any other? Or does the game having “Hard counters” to the level of 10%/90% intentional? I get things aren’t balanced 1v1 and 50/50 for all builds is impossible. But the scenario WILL come up and effect the current game. But is there a certain ratio being shot for? (IMO I suggest 40/60 – 35/65)

and if this is the case is the ability to hold or contest a point considered to be a victory for these this?

(edited by Daishi.6027)

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Posted by: Ace.1726

Ace.1726

Thanks for the post Jonathan, as a player I really appreciate the honesty, but I think the rate of spvp development is too slow and needs more resources.

A lot of the top teams have left and a lot of them were pillars of the community like Xeph and Team Paradigm, spvp may have increasing numbers of players but you can’t replace people like Xeph and Team Paradigm.

The spvp community is by far the most active and supportive community in GW2 by far(despite how small we are) and we are the most hard done by.

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Posted by: Juan Ignacio.8903

Juan Ignacio.8903

jon .. people go to hotjoin to kill dudes and they are happy doing so, sometimes they get zerged and they get mad, wvw ppl got this thing that they created that they called “gvg” (obviously is not the gw1 gvg but its just a name) wich is a ball of dudes figthing another ball of dudes spaming stuff left and rigth and they are happy. People that do tournaments and stuff they get frustrated and they stop doing that.

This is not a moba, this is not an RTS, this is not an FPS, this is an mmo and people in mmos like to kill other ppl with their friends and want their name or their guild name somewhere that other people can see so they can brag about it.

Wake up, people dont like conquest, they just dont, and u cant deny it (maybe some dude but i bet that the % is very small). They just like to go in kill some dudes and have a laugh or die in a glorious way.

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Posted by: Hammerheart.1426

Hammerheart.1426

Please Jon, read my above post and answer my questions. I have some valid points that need addressing.

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Posted by: Blimm.5028

Blimm.5028

Thanks, Jon for the huge input you have given into this forum (even if only 30% of it have not been purged… but discussing this further will get me banned or infracted…)

It´s nice to get some hope. But the talk of game modes is a little late. What we need now is you to double, triple or more your balance staff. Bad decisions have been made which could have been prevented if more, watchful eyes would have checked the concepts.
Fact is that a two man team can not be expected to produce a healthy metagame.
It´s just too complex and multidimensional.

So please get – at least for a few months – more people to work on this, or every game mode added will fail.
The game in its current state is borderline unplayable and i don´t know a single person truly happy with it.

PS: Don´t listen to the GvG spammers. It´s not the wish of the real tPvP community but the wish of some overpopulated guilds which discovered WvW is not large enough for them. So they want to take over the mists.

DON´T LET THIS HAPPEN!!!

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Posted by: ValeV.4875

ValeV.4875

tl;dr: blablabla nerf ranger tommorow, we’re working, blablabla THE END.

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Posted by: Knote.2904

Knote.2904

tl;dr: blablabla nerf ranger tommorow, we’re working, blablabla THE END.

A lot easier to type a single cynical sentence than read 3 really good posts by a dev which has been something rare lately.

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Posted by: Cletus Van Damme.2795

Cletus Van Damme.2795

Skill Splitting difficulties.

Ah, rangers outside of spvp have been dealing with this for over a year now it’s nice to know why pvp changes have been infecting pve and wvw with no stop in sight.

Good to hear about the new game modes! Standing on a point can only be so exciting after awhile.

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Posted by: mordran.4750

mordran.4750

PS: Don´t listen to the GvG spammers. It´s not the wish of the real tPvP community but the wish of some overpopulated guilds which discovered WvW is not large enough for them. So they want to take over the mists.

DON´T LET THIS HAPPEN!!!

Ah so you are the spokesmen of the “real” tPvP community, seems that i missed the announcement for that. Anyways GvG is demanded by a lot of people be it somewhere in the mists or be it somewhere else. So you call a 20vs20 “overpopulated”, well thanks for not understanding what gvg is all about, gtfo please.

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Posted by: Azunai.5974

Azunai.5974

tl;dr: blablabla nerf ranger tommorow, we’re working, blablabla THE END.

Do you ever wonder what you’re doing with your life?

/justasking

Resident deaf elementalist – Tarnished Coast
Everyone needs a little optimism!

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Posted by: ValeV.4875

ValeV.4875

tl;dr: blablabla nerf ranger tommorow, we’re working, blablabla THE END.

A lot easier to type a single cynical sentence than read 3 really good posts by a dev which has been something rare lately.

I dont care about awesome written posts, I care about real change. Or if I say in the style of Jonathan,
“A little less conversations a little more action.” – Elvis Presley.

Sharp is literally saying the same thing for a year now, hold your patience guys, we’re working on it, it’s hard to change stuff becuase it makes a game hard to manage (about splitting skills and whatnot).

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Posted by: ValeV.4875

ValeV.4875

tl;dr: blablabla nerf ranger tommorow, we’re working, blablabla THE END.

Do you ever wonder what you’re doing with your life?

/justasking

Do you want to talk about my life? PM me in game so we wont spam here: ValeV.4875.

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Posted by: pot.6805

pot.6805

Thank you for the posts Chap! I am looking forward to the future.

BeeGee
Beast mode

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Posted by: QtVain.5803

QtVain.5803

Jon “The Mack” Sharp,

Thank you for Pax. Thank you for your work, time, dedication. You may not realize it; or maybe you have, but this post was insight as to what is going on inside that shiny noggin’ of yours.

This type of thing is what the community needs. It’s the same as any relationship, or friendship you will ever encounter. YOU; as devs, form a relationship with us. How you go about it will simply determine the outcome. When players have questions, concerns, or comments, they just want to be heard. Or, have the illusion that they are being heard. Sometimes we need reinforcement, mentoring, or talking to. But, we never want to be ignored. You talked about “finding the right spot,” and I believe that is a troublesome area with ArenaNet. While you guys show support in streams, at tournies, and with SOTGs… Sometimes we need more than that. General PR responses don’t always get the job done, and they get stale.

We understand you can’t speak with us all the time, nor should you ever be expected to. I just ask that you “find the right spot” when communicating with us. Deep down, I always knew you were working on the current issues with the game. But, sometimes it’s nice to have a status report, which has always been lacking.

Thank you again, for all your committment and dedication to us. For those that have quit, they’ll be back. ^.^

<3 Vain

QT Vain
A member of Team [CUTE], forever and always.