Policy on Third-Party Programs Coming Soon

Policy on Third-Party Programs Coming Soon

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Posted by: Gaile Gray

Gaile Gray

ArenaNet Support Liaison

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We’re getting many tickets, forum posts, and other inquiries about our policy on third-party programs. Players tell us a lot of reasons they want to use third-party programs: to avoid hand injury, to enhance their gameplay, or because their hands are too small to reach the keys. Players tell us they want to use third-party programs to make the screen clearer, to make their play more efficient (for instance, by combining several hotkey functions into a single key), to force their video card to use anti-aliasing, or to help them target enemies.

I’m going to run some wording by a few people at ArenaNet and will post our policy as clearly and simply as possible when I have received their input.

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Posted by: Red Falcon.8257

Red Falcon.8257

My mouse allows for hitting multiple keys at once with one button, is that considered wrong?
I.E. using 3 shouts with one button.

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Posted by: Account.9832

Account.9832

Honestly if the dev team would put a little effort into accessibility and standard visual options that every game should have, we wouldn’t need all this drama about third party apps.

Exactly. The UI in GW2 seems to have been designed to “look pretty” not to be ergonomic or efficient. Several unfortunate design choices, such as the camera “smoothing” (lag) or the fact that range indicators are at the bottom of the screen while enemies are near the top, etc., put unnecessary strain on players.

Not to mention incomprehensible decisions such as using red / green / blue for the WvW teams (instead of red / yellow / blue) when red-green colour blindness affects almost 5% of the population.

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Posted by: Maerkyrr Belle.3206

Maerkyrr Belle.3206

I just want a damage meter so I can have the numbers in regards to different builds I try out. Much easier to see whether a different piece of gear or a buff, etc etc is actually affecting damage output when there is a program recording and organizing the numbers for you.

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Posted by: Account.9832

Account.9832

Real-time damage meters tend to turn dungeon runs into penile length contests, but a post-play log analyzer would be nice. And it would also be nice to get some information about healing in the combat log (currently it’s very hard to tell if the healing from my traits / sigils / etc. is “working as intended”).

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Posted by: Musetii.7163

Musetii.7163

Thanks Gaile for gathering some info. I look forward to reading about whatever you uncover. Specifically remote desktop applications for android tablets.

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Posted by: raxx.8914

raxx.8914

Ok, thanks, i don’t like how small the default zoom is, you can’t even see the action when you play asura, all i saw during the dragon fight is his leg, i couldn’t even tell if i was hitting him or not.

I hope some modding is allowed but not as much as some games allowed, i don’t like anything that automates functions. Just cosmetic mods are good.

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Posted by: Crazylegsmurphy.6430

Crazylegsmurphy.6430

This should be interesting.

My thought is, any third party mod that they approve, should be implemented as a standard option for all players, or offered as official approved download mods.

I don’t think any player should have an advantage over another no matter how insignificant the change may seem. Call me Captain Lamepants, but I would be cranky if I didn’t have the same access to some options as other players.

In the end though, accessibility should always be a top priority for any company. If the suggestions above improve accessibility for all players, then ANet should be seriously considering adding them as standard options.

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Posted by: Spryt.8012

Spryt.8012

Funny that she mentions forced AA on the list. Does that mean using Nvidia control panel to use specific graphic settings and SLI profiles or even just changing gamma levels in GW2 is considered a 3rd party software and not allowed? What about overclocking software?

(edited by Spryt.8012)

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Posted by: Shael.4703

Shael.4703

We’re getting many tickets, forum posts, and other inquiries about our policy on third-party programs. Players tell us a lot of reasons they want to use third-party programs: to avoid hand injury, to enhance their gameplay, or because their hands are too small to reach the keys. Players tell us they want to use third-party programs to make the screen clearer, to make their play more efficient (for instance, by combining several hotkey functions into a single key), to force their video card to use anti-aliasing, or to help them target enemies.

I’m going to run some wording by a few people at ArenaNet and will post our policy as clearly and simply as possible when I have received their input.

Ah, yes please, finally. It is indeed time to have a sync’d statement and avoid sending mixed and/or contradicting messages from different departments (which we can not blame them, they’re just doing their jobs).

And once again, kudos to you Gaile, as always, you have the knack in getting things smoothed out, discussed, and get the company on the same plate and stance.

I for one want to know because I use SMAA and not FXAA. A simple video anti-alias enhancer that is better than NVIDIA’s FXAA (which happen to be a supported setting in the GW2 client). If your devs are willing, they can check SMAA themselves, it does look better than FXAA. (Though there’s a new one coming that is even better than SMAA, but that’s a few years before we see it publikittenested.) SMAA = no blurring, not like FXAA. SMAA = less resource hogger, not like FXAA which adds to the slowness of the machine. It would be great to see GW2 to be the first official implementor of SMAA

Anyway… there are also the gray area for: Combat Mod; the overlay family namely → uMod, TexMod, and even a new one: DroMod; and who knows what else out there.

Secondly, I hope the statement will also cover Guild Wars 1.

Looking forward and thank you for taking the initiative.

My blog/sites: gameshogun & Tomes of Knowledge

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Posted by: Shael.4703

Shael.4703

Funny that she mentions forced AA on the list. Does that mean using Nvidia control panel to use specific graphic settings and SLI profiles or even just changing gamma levels in GW2 is considered a 3rd party software and not allowed? What about overclocking software?

No, but there are other ways to make AA even better than what the client provides – which it only offers FXAA, no traditional AA even.

Not to mention SMAA too, which is better than FXAA by leaps. (Which NVIDIA will no doubt never support because their flagship is FXAA [and the new one they’re developing that is better than SMAA and FXAA].)

My blog/sites: gameshogun & Tomes of Knowledge

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Posted by: phoenixdot.9760

phoenixdot.9760

All Razer Product that i used like Nostromo, Lycosa, and Imperator has a program that can modify command on button. Specially Nostromo, it’s a gamepad and you can customize all the button via software provided by Razer. One button can do many command at once. Is this Razer software and gamepad feature is third party software that forbidden on GW2 because it’s give me advantage that other’s player don’t ?

Ticket : 120911-009271
Started on : 09/11/2012
Status : Solved

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Posted by: HoneyBadger.7094

HoneyBadger.7094

I personally take interest in this, as I use Razer Synapse for my Naga to play.

For ranged weapons/characters, I prefer to keep the auto-attack off (because to be completely honest, the current auto-attack system is absolutely pathetic and annoying for ranged attack).
It puts a bit of a strain, after a while, to repeatedly press my 1-skill key on my mouse, so I have employed the help of the Naga’s ability to make macros.
My macro is really very simple, and I can have it do what the default in-game auto-attack should be able to do: TOGGLE
As it is now, however, I have it set to use skill 1 twice, and to do so repeatedly as long as I’ve got the key held down (since, while in a toggleable mode, it interrupts other skills).
If you guys at ANet can make auto-attack a toggle instead of having it continually go off (even when you don’t want it to), I’d really appreciate it.
To clarify the request: Make it so if you press it, it continues attacking when in range/possible, but when you press it again it stops. Everything else about it is perfect (especially the fact that it doesn’t interrupt other skills like my macro sometimes).

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Posted by: Stormcrow.7513

Stormcrow.7513

It would really be nice to get a straight answer from Anet regarding AA Injectors…..
I dont want to risk my account being banned for using a graphics mod that makes the game look better than the dev’s.

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Posted by: Bigperm.7586

Bigperm.7586

It’s been 6 days. Can we score an answer on AA Injectors plz?

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Posted by: Rolo.9248

Rolo.9248

Clear directives are essential; however, legislation can’t replace good judgement (that’s how we end up with all those silly laws and warning labels). The more you impose Anet take a stance, the more likely they will just make it easy and make the policy, “No third-party software”.

What is Anet’s position currently? Don’t automate gameplay and don’t use game mechanics in a manner not intended. AA doesn’t fall under this. Using Razer/nostromo/Logitech HID software or AHK/bot software or even no software to AFK farm events/karma does fall under this.

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When I was your age, I could outrun a centaur…until I took an arrow to the knee

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Posted by: krojack.4920

krojack.4920

Clear directives are essential; however, legislation can’t replace good judgement (that’s how we end up with all those silly laws and warning labels). The more you impose Anet take a stance, the more likely they will just make it easy and make the policy, “No third-party software”.

What is Anet’s position currently? Don’t automate gameplay and don’t use game mechanics in a manner not intended. AA doesn’t fall under this. Using Razer/nostromo/Logitech HID software or AHK/bot software or even no software to AFK farm events/karma does fall under this.

So what you’re saying is by using a Razer Naga mouse or using the Logitech G510 keyboard’s macro keys would be against the policy and thus a bannable offence? If so I would go after ArenaNet and demand my money back for the game.

80 Sylvari Ranger – Jade Quarry
» My current Guild Wars 2 game annoyances

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Posted by: Gaile Gray

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Gaile Gray

ArenaNet Support Liaison

Next

It’s not what you’re using, it’s how you use it. Both the mouse and keyboard are fine, but as Rolo said, using them for AFK farming is disallowed.

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Posted by: Fixy.6193

Fixy.6193

So using macros for emotes for fun or RP people is allowed?
The best would be to allow in game key mapping for emotes.

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Posted by: Warlord Jim.2870

Warlord Jim.2870

It’s not what you’re using, it’s how you use it. Both the mouse and keyboard are fine, but as Rolo said, using them for AFK farming is disallowed.

Hey Gaile.

First, thanks heaps for your updates on this topic.

Unfortunately, regardless of the wording your legal department comes up with, you are not going to be able to cover all possible angles. If you say “under no circumstances do we authorize third party applications blah blah” you are effectively saying "sorry to those of you who have expensive hardware (mice / kb’s) but we wont tolerate you using the third party utilities that come with these devices to create macros or do anything other than what is possible with a stock standard device.

The flip side is if you say, “well, third party apps such as those that come bundled with hardware are ok” then you are essentially opening the flood gates. Not only that, but who’s to judge that me creating a macro that could use 3 instant cast abilities with 1 click, gives me more of an advantage than someone who has a script that allows him to move the camera / direction of the character without holding down the right click button? (aka the combat mod or whatever its called).

The only real solution to these issues is to offer commonly requested features as an option in the game ui. Options hurt no one, as they can be enable or disabled as the user prefers.

I am certainly of the opinion that when it comes to game balance, the community itself should take a back seat to the knowledge and experience of the developers and have very little input. When it comes to UI / functionality however, I truly don’t care about the opinions of the devs / programmers / ppl who designed the UI, the players have to play the game, and so whatever they require to make this easier / more fun / more accessible should be of paramount importance.

Ultimately, the more options people have to tweak their controls / the way they play, the more likely they are to remain playing the game and spending money on it.

Thankyou for any consideration that you give this post.

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Posted by: krojack.4920

krojack.4920

It’s not what you’re using, it’s how you use it. Both the mouse and keyboard are fine, but as Rolo said, using them for AFK farming is disallowed.

Thank you for making that clear…

Even though I haven’t found a use for my G510 macros in GW2 (yet) It’s nice to know that in the future I will be able to use them if needed. The Razer Naga buttons set to use the 1 though 0 keys along the top of my keyboard has been enough for now.

80 Sylvari Ranger – Jade Quarry
» My current Guild Wars 2 game annoyances

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Posted by: raxx.8914

raxx.8914

So i take it we can now use camera mods?
The default fov causes eye strain, low fov = eye strain was proven over a decade ago in FPS. I hope the program doesn’t have a keylogger, oh well not providing options ingame is a silly thing. Oh and asura has problems, his weapons stop firing all the time when turning and his grenades are always thrown in weird directions totally missing the enemy hope this fixes it.

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Posted by: Renegadeimp.8439

Renegadeimp.8439

The easiest way is to look at it like this. Third party apps are not allowed. However, keyboards and mice are. But with keyboards and mice, one button click = one action. If you clicking on one button has your character or the game performing more than one action, then it is not allowed.

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Posted by: WeLoveKanjimari.6725

WeLoveKanjimari.6725

So, hey, Over two weeks. Can we get some feedback on this? Lots of people are wondering if we can use a tool to change the FOV since you guys are refusing to let us do so in-game. I’m dealing with a crappy FOV if it means I won’t be banned. But an actual official response on the concept would be great, as personally I’m holding out hope that it will be allowed.

(edited by WeLoveKanjimari.6725)

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Posted by: KorKor.9452

KorKor.9452

I’d be interested in the outcome of this topic as well. While I disapprove of addons like dps meters, gear score, and the like? As they turn things such as dungeon runs into a huge who has the bigger sausage fest and leave people out in the cold based off gear who are great players. I do approve of cosmetic changes such as making the in range markers clearer, etc. That and the ability to zoom out alot further would just be amazing even from an addon.

It is a tricky thing to balance this but I wish GW2 luck on that front. I really hope they can manage to do it while barring the BS such as dps meters from use such as they were in WoW.

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Posted by: WeLoveKanjimari.6725

WeLoveKanjimari.6725

Does an improved Field of View count as something that would “allow someone to play faster, better, longer, or more accurately than someone who doesn’t use it”?

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/support/account/Policy-Third-Party-Programs

The best way for a player to assess whether a specific third-party program could have any impact on another player or a PvP opponent is to ask:
• “Does this program allow someone to play faster, better, longer, or more accurately than someone who doesn’t use it?”
• “Does this program allow someone to ‘play’ when he/she is not at the computer?”
• “Does this program allow the user to gain undeserved rewards?”

Because the answer to the other two questions is “No”. I just don’t know if the answer to this first question is yes or not.

I don’t see how it would…because other players already have an advantage over me without third party programs (people with wider screens or multiple monitors have a larger field of view and can see more around their character, which I and others cannot). If anything it’s leveling the playing field, because other players already have total access to a larger field of view without modifying the game at all. They can afford the space and cost of two or three monitors. I can’t.

As you can see from the attached image, the wider the screen is, the more you can see. (“reduced window size” in this image refers to the screen being smushed vertically, not stretched horizontally, however. Open your game in windowed mode. Now stretch the screen so that it’s much wider than it is tall. The field of view will expand as a result. This is the same effect that happens when you use multiple monitors. Credit to some guy on Reddit for the picture, I can’t find where I got it from to source it.) Someone with a wider monitor has a larger horizontal FOV than everyone else, but they’re not at risk of being banned for it, are they? They’re allowed to have a higher Field of View. Is everyone else?

Please can I get an actual response on this? The near-silence on this subject is so frustrating, combined with the refusal of anyone to accept that the FOV is too small. This is my biggest issue with the game and all I want is an answer.

“We might ban you for this, maybe, we don’t know” is not an adequate answer. Please. I really don’t want to get banned, so I’m definitely not going to use anything to change the FOV without being told it’s okay. But I also don’t want to sit back and accept “We dunno if we approve of this or not” as an answer. And neither does the rest of the community seeking relief from the game’s default Field of View.

Pleeeeeeease?

Attachments:

(edited by WeLoveKanjimari.6725)

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Posted by: Alur.7510

Alur.7510

Same here as stated above, I’m interested to hear about this, is about 2 weeks now

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Posted by: Gaile Gray

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Gaile Gray

ArenaNet Support Liaison

sigh

The policy, as stated, is the policy. Please don’t read the policy and say “But why not approve this one?” or “What about that other one — I need to know why not on X, Y, or Z?” As we have said, “we will not approve any third-party program.”

A few more points:

  1. Saying “give us more options so we can choose what to use these instead of using third-party programs” isn’t reasonable. Which option first? The one you like, or the one that someone else is requesting? There are a gazillion options in the game, and asking for more isn’t “the only real solution.” Not by a light-year.
  2. As stated, we will work with the community to build apps in the future.
  3. Our legal department didn’t write that — I did.
Gaile Gray
Support Liaison
ArenaNet