Update: No WvW Rating Reset

Update: No WvW Rating Reset

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Posted by: Habib Loew.6239

Habib Loew.6239

Gameplay Programmer

Next

Update 2/7/2013:
We’ve been keeping a very close watch on this week’s matchups and, despite our concerns regarding the recent population shifts, it seems that many of the games are quite competitive. At the same time we’ve been evaluating some possible changes to the math we use to calculate ratings. After examining a number of new methodologies for weighting the outcomes of matches we have found that our existing formulas already do pretty much what we want them to do. Certainly none of the candidates that we tried yielded better results.

In light of the strong community response to the idea of a WvW ratings reset, the results of our ratings formula investigations, and our data on the current matchups we have decided not to reset the WvW ratings at this time. All existing WvW ratings will be preserved and the rating calculation methodology will remain unchanged. Any existing mismatches should be corrected by the system in relatively short order. Now that there is less volatility in the player base for each world we expect the quality of matches to improve more quickly. This is both because the rating system is operating in a less unpredictable environment and because more stable teams tend to produce better results.

Thank you all for your feedback on this matter, and for your patience while we explored the various options. The community response was a key element in our decision making process.


Original Post:

In the run up to the end of free world transfers we saw large population changes as people settled in to their home servers. This means that the WvW teams being fielded by many of the worlds are now dramatically different. In recognition of this fact, and in light of the increased population stability that comes with paid transfers, we feel that this would be a good time to reset the ratings of all the servers. A reset at this point will allow the rating & ranking system to more quickly and correctly rate these (effectively) new WvW teams.

Here’s how the reset will work:

1) We’ll let the current matchup play out. Since free transfers were available during the first part of this matchup we don’t want it to count towards the new ratings.
2) When the matchup rolls over on Friday, February 1st we’ll post the final ratings & rankings. The new ordering will determine the groupings for the next matchup as usual.
3) After the new matchup has started on February 1st we’ll reset all the ratings (and deviation & volatility) behind the scenes.

Because every world will have reset ratings the system will treat the February 1st matchup as the first matchup and will calculate the ratings accordingly. The new ratings will then be calculated normally in the way that you’re already familiar with. We expect several weeks of volatility while the ratings settle down but we believe that it will ultimately yield a more correct result more quickly than letting the current ratings persist. That also means that the coming month or two will be a fantastic time to fight for your world’s place in the rankings!

Additionally, we’re taking advantage of the reset to revisit some of the math behind the ratings. I’ll have more to post on that once we’ve crunched some numbers and made some decisions.


ArenaNet Gameplay Programmer

(edited by Habib Loew.6239)

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Posted by: Bankzilla.2984

Bankzilla.2984

Didn’t see this coming, should be interesting. Can’t wait!

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Posted by: Darek.1836

Darek.1836

Wow, great to hear that T8 won’t be completely shut out from the rest of the servers! Great decision in all honesty, Anet.

edit: welp, I hope T8 can still fix itself without the reset

(edited by Darek.1836)

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Posted by: fab.3298

fab.3298

Unexpected news, but it seems like a good idea. I can’t wait to see the rankings in a few weeks and see how different they are from todays.

Fab The Guardian
[Re] Rerolled, Gunnar’s Hold

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Posted by: Ascii.9726

Ascii.9726

Your going to need some kind of point difference between each rank to stop a balanced T1 fight next week with each server earning +30 points being unbalanced by a T3 fight were one side earns +180 and shooting into 1st place.

This will cause much more unbalancing then tier fixing with dominating tiers pushing top coverage servers into weaker ones.

Rank 580+ Necromancer WvW Stream
Commander Ascii :: Tempest Wolves [TW] :: Sanctum of Rall :: Best Necromancer NA

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Posted by: Xaaz.8472

Xaaz.8472

LOL – This will cause some of the stronger servers starting slightly lower than they belong and blow up that tier anyway. Seeing as it’s almost fixed now, I’m not sure of the reasoning here.

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Posted by: moolie.5927

moolie.5927

Wow that means we actually get some different opponents soon!
Wooot, map completion on all my alts!

Just another careless bird.

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Posted by: Nathan Gura.3750

Nathan Gura.3750

PLEASE find a better way to balance these out. My brothers and I moved to SoS to avoid the terrible commanders and low numbers in AR and we love the bigger scale battles in Tier 1! Please allow some type of switching if something happens and the old tier 1 servers are suddenly at the bottom!

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Posted by: sostronk.8167

sostronk.8167

Could be a wierd one for SOS. We have had a rough week in Tier 1. May finish in 2nd or probably 3rd and then end up in a mid tier where we would dominate lower pop servers. I don’t see this being reasonable.

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Posted by: Aithere.2950

Aithere.2950

I’m not really agreeing with this decision, mainly because since server transfers are no longer free, the tiers would already balance themselves out — this change, I’m fearing, will cause even more server imbalance among the tiers for a much prolonged time period than originally expected.

Sanctum of Rall
Caedas [CDS] | http://caedas.enjin.com

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Posted by: Churros.7196

Churros.7196

Lol… the high population servers are close to their destined tiers and you decide to reset now? i really do not want to PvDoor for weeks until the tiers are settled again.

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Posted by: Pinkus.2860

Pinkus.2860

What a shame… So recently stacked servers will have to face similarly stacked servers now? BOO HOO! Best of luck Keineng and SoR. Hope you’re ready

Pinkus – Co GM of Nocturnal [NOC] – Blackgate
http://www.nocturnalguild.com.au
Oceanics Represent!

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Posted by: Vodka.3958

Vodka.3958

Love this idea, great job Anet! Certain servers were abusing the rating system pretty hard.

Commander [ICoa] Hollywood Fiend
Primal Emperor of Imperial Coalition
imperialcoalition.enjin.com

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Posted by: Doomdesire.9365

Doomdesire.9365

I don’t agree with this decision. So much hard blood and sweat put into our server’s efforts. We were going to T1 next week. I guess not .-.

Why now though? The servers are finally seeing their final destinations. A reset doesn’t make sense to me.

Although I hope Anet decides not to do this, ultimately, it’s their game. Just a little disappointed

Edit: Ignore my entire post, I misunderstood #2

Let the games commence! Although I am still concerned that lower tier blowout servers will be tier one due to their dominance over the weaker servers(perfect example, Darkhaven)

(edited by Doomdesire.9365)

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Posted by: CHIPS.6018

CHIPS.6018

Sorry Habib but this is the absolute WORST time for a server rating reset. Please hear me out.

Look at the predicted T1 to T3 right now. These will be the best matches we have for weeks.

Jade Quarry
Sanctum of Rall
Sea of Sorrows

Blackgate
Tarnished Coast
Fort Aspenwood

Kaineng
Maguuma
Dragonbrand

All 9 of these servers can wvw very well. Many people have waited WEEKS for epic battles like these.

At lower tiers, things are FINALLY settling in. We got weaker servers facing weaker servers. The matches won’t be lopsided anymore. May people have waited WEEKS for the matches to even out.

If you guys reset the rating right now, you would be placing some of these top 9 teams with weak server. These weaker server will be overrun “again”. What we would get is more outcry. More trash talking. None of these are positive for the game.

I strongly recommend that you guys reconsider this decision. Postpone this for a month and see how things go first. Thank you.

(edited by CHIPS.6018)

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Posted by: Kajetan.3146

Kajetan.3146

Could be a wierd one for SOS. We have had a rough week in Tier 1. May finish in 2nd or probably 3rd and then end up in a mid tier where we would dominate lower pop servers. I don’t see this being reasonable.

ok ………. so on the post it says starting next week the new matchups will be set! so this week isnt affecting new ranks!

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Posted by: Kajetan.3146

Kajetan.3146

Sorry Habib but this is the worst time for a server rating reset. Please hear me out.

Look at the predicted T1 to T3 right now. These will be the best matches we have for weeks.

Jade Quarry
Sanctum of Rall
Sea of Sorrows

Blackgate
Tarnished Coast
Fort Aspenwood

Kaineng
Maguuma
Dragonbrand

All 9 of these servers can wvw very well. Many people have waited weeks for epic battles like these.

If you guys reset the rating right now, you would be placing some of these top 9 teams with weak server. These weaker server will be overrun “again”. What we would get is more outcry. More trash talking. None of these are positive for the game.

I strongly recommend that you guys reconsider this decision.

starting next week so those matchups will still occur

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Posted by: Aithere.2950

Aithere.2950

I don’t agree with this decision. So much hard blood and sweat put into our server’s efforts. We were going to T1 next week. I guess not .-.

Why now though? The servers are finally seeing their final destinations. A reset doesn’t make sense to me.

Although I hope Anet decides not to do this, ultimately, it’s their game. Just a little disappointed

We are still going into Tier 1 next week, but everyone’s points will be reset to 0.

Sanctum of Rall
Caedas [CDS] | http://caedas.enjin.com

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Posted by: Kranky.8231

Kranky.8231

However this pans out it will be interesting!

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Posted by: Feed Me Change.6528

Feed Me Change.6528

Will the matches stay at 1 week long? or will we see the 1 or 3 day matches like we did earlier around release time?

NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.

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Posted by: Liquid.9672

Liquid.9672

Sorry Habib but this is the worst time for a server rating reset. Please hear me out.

Look at the predicted T1 to T3 right now. These will be the best matches we have for weeks.

Jade Quarry
Sanctum of Rall
Sea of Sorrows

Blackgate
Tarnished Coast
Fort Aspenwood

Kaineng
Maguuma
Dragonbrand

All 9 of these servers can wvw very well. Many people have waited weeks for epic battles like these.

If you guys reset the rating right now, you would be placing some of these top 9 teams with weak server. These weaker server will be overrun “again”. What we would get is more outcry. More trash talking. None of these are positive for the game.

I strongly recommend that you guys reconsider this decision.

starting next week so those matchups will still occur

Exactly. Guys, just because they’re resetting the ratings, it doesn’t mean they’re reshuffling the matches. These projected matchups will still happen. The difference however is each server’s expected performance will not be influenced by past performance. I think that’s what it means anyways.

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Posted by: Jaghen.8314

Jaghen.8314

That’s a problem still.

A serv in T1 which arguably should be above 2k, losses the next match up. It goes to 1450.
A serv in T8 which should be around 1k2 wins the next match up. It goes to 1550.

See where I’m heading ? Not next week, but the week after… we’re gonna have some crying everywhere…

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Posted by: satkis.7021

satkis.7021

Very interesting. Dunno if this is good thing though. The bigger your win is next week the higher you are ranked. No matter if opponents are good or bad. In tough tier 1 you finish 3rd and you get to pvdoor weaker servers for weeks until you are again where you belong to..

satkis [TLA] – Guardian – Desolation

Only a WvW player

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Posted by: Reslinal.2359

Reslinal.2359

Actually I am not sure how it’s going to work after next week. Say next week in current T1 JQ wins and SOR is the last, and T5 Yak’s Bend get first. Does it mean there’s a chance JQ is going to fight Yak’s Bend the week after since their ratings may be closer?

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Posted by: Pinkus.2860

Pinkus.2860

Around 4 weeks to roughly balance the servers before big WvW patch / update. Anyone else nervous?

Pinkus – Co GM of Nocturnal [NOC] – Blackgate
http://www.nocturnalguild.com.au
Oceanics Represent!

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Posted by: Drmortus.9314

Drmortus.9314

That’s a problem still.

A serv in T1 which arguably should be above 2k, losses the next match up. It goes to 1450.
A serv in T8 which should be around 1k2 wins the next match up. It goes to 1550.

See where I’m heading ? Not next week, but the week after… we’re gonna have some crying everywhere…

This is exactly what I’m worried about, the T1 servers will probably be stuck PvDooring servers that do not need to be beat anymore than they have been by the servers that are currently having blowouts on them.

80 thief ~ [EMP] ~ JQ

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Posted by: Vodka.3958

Vodka.3958

I said this in another post but here is how the ratings play out…

So this means that since SoR, JQ, and SoS are going to be a close matchup in T1; they’ll be at around 30 rating at the end of next week and could go down to t5/t6 when the week ends. But, if Blackgate kicks kitten in T2 then they will have a higher rating (80+) at the end of next weeks matchup. This also says the same for the T7 servers; if Darkhaven kicks the crap out of everyone in their tier and they have 90 rating at the end of next week, then they’ll be placed on the top of T1. This is how the glicko ratings work in its early stages It’ll take about a month to balance out.

Edit: I believe everyone will start at 1500 rating

Commander [ICoa] Hollywood Fiend
Primal Emperor of Imperial Coalition
imperialcoalition.enjin.com

(edited by Vodka.3958)

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Posted by: deviller.9135

deviller.9135

This will be rolf-stomped event (for months).

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Posted by: CHIPS.6018

CHIPS.6018

Actually I am not sure how it’s going to work after next week. Say next week in current T1 JQ wins and SOR is the last, and T5 Yak’s Bend get first. Does it mean there’s a chance JQ is going to fight Yak’s Bend the week after since their ratings may be closer?

Let’s say next week SF (rank 22), EB (rank 15) and FA (rank 6) blows out their enemies. These 3 servers would be in T1 next next week. FA would proceed to blowout SF and EB and get free points. If JQ didn’t blow out SoR and and SoS, JQ would end up in a lower tier than SF and EB for next next week.

If you are in a lower tier server (SF, EB, etc), you should aim to blow out your foes so you can be in T1 for one week. After that when you face servers like FA, just take a vacation.

If you happened to be the weakest link in T1, prepare to enter T8 next next week.

(edited by CHIPS.6018)

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Posted by: Reslinal.2359

Reslinal.2359

This sounds horrible, Habib if you decided to do this, can we have the 24 hour matches again to get ratings into place quickly?

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Posted by: Hoots.9564

Hoots.9564

Around 4 weeks to roughly balance the servers before big WvW patch / update. Anyone else nervous?

lol this is not a good idea at all, the established WvW servers that have worked months to finally balance the tiers so as to not blow out the competition such as t2 and t4 atm, will finally be somewhat normal on the week that they are resetting the ranks. Any of the t1 servers/t2 servers that lose will fall and demolish any t3 and beyond pairing. So I’m not sure why this is happening considering all WvW oriented servers are already in/about to join brackets where they will find competiton.

[TW]Tempest Wolves

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Posted by: JaredKincade.9761

JaredKincade.9761

True, but it also means that all servers that want to get into Tier 1 will have to earn their way in, not exploit a dead servers uncorrected high rating to shoot into Tier 1.

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Posted by: Pinko.2076

Pinko.2076

The third point makes it sound like they will be hand picking the initial placements. It could be a pretty gentle reset that’s aimed only at settling the dying servers (CD/IoJ/SBI) quickly, and getting the t8 servers out of ELO hell.

Kitty Bomb [DERP] – Maguuma

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Posted by: Hoots.9564

Hoots.9564

True, but it also means that all servers that want to get into Tier 1 will have to earn their way in, not exploit a dead servers uncorrected high rating to shoot into Tier 1.

lol

[TW]Tempest Wolves

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Posted by: JaredKincade.9761

JaredKincade.9761

Actually I am not sure how it’s going to work after next week. Say next week in current T1 JQ wins and SOR is the last, and T5 Yak’s Bend get first. Does it mean there’s a chance JQ is going to fight Yak’s Bend the week after since their ratings may be closer?

Let’s say next week SF (rank 22), EB (rank 15) and FA (rank 6) blows out their enemies. These 3 servers would be in T1 next next week. FA would proceed to blowout SF and EB and get free points. If JQ didn’t blow out SoR and and SoS, JQ would end up in a lower tier than SF and EB for next next week.

Yea its free points, but the free points will be like 30, not 90. Then the next week they will play the other ones that had blow outs, and drop back down.

They thing everyone is forgetting is you get large amounts of rating by beating servers higher than you in rating. Because everyone’s rating will be equal, there won’t be any huge rating shifts.

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Posted by: Reslinal.2359

Reslinal.2359

I think it’s fine if they do the 24 hour matches. If they are going to do it using the week long match, it’s gonna take weeks or even months before everyone can get a decent fight.

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Posted by: Anatolian Turk.4057

Anatolian Turk.4057

this is absurd. When WvW was slowly stabilising, anet decides to make things worse. Look at next weeks match up, the top 4 tiers looks more even then ever before. Why reset now, when things are getting better? i say give one more week, if things are not doing well then consider as the final option. peace

Peacemaker Ele (80 Elementalist) | Anatolian Turk (80 Mesmer)
Charge Ftw (80 Warrior) | Shadow Walker Thief (80 Thief)
Good to Go (GTG) | Proud to be Desolationian – Desolation

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Posted by: CHIPS.6018

CHIPS.6018

True, but it also means that all servers that want to get into Tier 1 will have to earn their way in, not exploit a dead servers uncorrected high rating to shoot into Tier 1.

But the dead server exploiting is ALREADY done. Its all in the past. It doesn’t make any sense now to cause more trouble for everyone.

Trust me you guys in weaker servers don’t want to see FA, Mag, SoR or TC rolling over you guys again. Everyone of these servers zergs and zergs.

(edited by CHIPS.6018)

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Posted by: Drmortus.9314

Drmortus.9314

This is awesome. Some of the tier 1 to 3 servers will have be kicked to tier 5 to 7 after this.

But don’t expect it to last. I expect the ratings to even out after about 3 weeks or a month at most.

And then those same servers will be stomping every server on their way back to where they belong. Not a good situation to be in.

80 thief ~ [EMP] ~ JQ

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Posted by: Nuvo.5014

Nuvo.5014

This is stupid, yeah next week we all have good matches but the week after that a server in t20 who get 650 tick will be in t1 in like 2 weeks and the server who fight for the place they have right now will go down. THIS IS STUPID

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Posted by: SmokeyNYY.7841

SmokeyNYY.7841

This seems like a terrible idea. You are basically giving servers who don’t deserve it a free ride to tier one. Not only will this destroy tiers for months to come but like the poster above me said we will never truly get to see who deserved to be in tier one and who just road the coattails of the rating reset. Whoever thought of this idea should probably be fired.

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Posted by: Tammuz.7361

Tammuz.7361

pvdoor isnt gonna be fun… i mean granted its atleast better to be on the P side than the door side but seriously, cant you like do the matches on a 24 or 48 hour timer for the next week or two to get a GENERAL idea of ratings… this is gonna make people on lower tier servers just not wanna play… and who could blame them when as a tier 8 server they wander out to see a massive BG or JQ army coming to crush them, then continue to grind them to dust 24/7

[VoTF] www.votf-online.net

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Posted by: Drexciyian.9453

Drexciyian.9453

Is it going to be daily, 3 day or weekly matches??

BOON Control

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Posted by: Jaghen.8314

Jaghen.8314

The most unsettling is not about people who deserves or not being in T1… but rather about servers getting roflstomped because of mismatches :/

I’m pretty sure the serv which doesn’t have the coverage to be in T1 will not enjoy the free ride !

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Posted by: Pinko.2076

Pinko.2076

The biggest winners are all t8 servers actually. The Elo hell of t8 is really mathematically difficult to break, and it was created artificially with transfers. It’s probably their biggest reason for doing this reset, because otherwise, t8 servers wouldn’t see the light of day besides a bandwagon.

Kitty Bomb [DERP] – Maguuma

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Posted by: ghostchipz.2341

ghostchipz.2341

This is the biggest pile of steaming Dolyak Poop i have ever read

Sigh Pvdoor for the next few weeks. Is it being renamed Wvs Empty server ?

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Posted by: dzeRnumbrd.6129

dzeRnumbrd.6129

Sweet – time for some WvW map completion. JQ is going to give some lowly tier 8 servers a 200,000 point thrashing.

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Posted by: Tammuz.7361

Tammuz.7361

I said this in another post but here is how the ratings play out…

So this means that since SoR, JQ, and SoS are going to be a close matchup in T1; they’ll be at around 30 rating at the end of next week and could go down to t5/t6 when the week ends. But, if Blackgate kicks kitten in T2 then they will have a higher rating (80+) at the end of next weeks matchup. This also says the same for the T7 servers; if Darkhaven kicks the crap out of everyone in their tier and they have 90 rating at the end of next week, then they’ll be placed on the top of T1. This is how the glicko ratings work in its early stages It’ll take about a month to balance out.

Edit: I believe everyone will start at 1500 rating

ya but again, no offense to Darkhaven but unless a bajillion people suddenly decide to pay and transfer there or the BG server randomly crashes and explodes the results of a BG vs Darkhaven matchup is kinda predictable…

[VoTF] www.votf-online.net

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Posted by: Pinko.2076

Pinko.2076

Sweet – time for some WvW map completion. JQ is going to give some lowly tier 8 servers a 200,000 point thrashing.

only 200,000? JQ getting soft?

Kitty Bomb [DERP] – Maguuma

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Posted by: Stanley.3295

Stanley.3295

Dear Anet,

We have already endured weeks and months of mismatched match-ups. And now we are getting closer to balanced tiers with the end of free transfers. I looked up at the projected match-ups and it is already getting better. A reset at this point would screw us up again. Please don’t kill your game…