Will World XP and Titles be retroactive?

Will World XP and Titles be retroactive?

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Posted by: Esoteric.5490

Esoteric.5490

Q:

Hello. I, and most of my guild, have spent the vast majority of our game time in WvW.

For me, personally, I have spent well over 1000 hours in WvW, roughly 85% of my time played. I have a lot of kills and a lot of captures.

The point of this thread isn’t to brag about how many kills I have or events I have done in WvW, but simply to ask: Are all of those achievements going to be applied retroactively with World XP?

The reason I ask this is because I have dedicated my game time to WvW because I love it. There are plenty of players that love PvE and have spent their time there. Had I spent my time in PvE, I would have experienced the vast gold wealth and legendaries that most PvE players with my time played possess.

My issue here is that WvW wasn’t rewarding when it was supposed to be end-game content. Many players still played it because it is a LOT of fun. I would not like to see comments about “don’t play it if you don’t enjoy it” because that couldn’t be further from the truth.

Most WvW players, myself included, would really appreciate it if our prior WvW achievements, events, and kills, were factored into World XP since it appears that it will only be taking into account events and achievements that are already tracked.

Yes, it is mostly cosmetic with some passive bonuses, but I think it is incredibly unfair (read: unjust) that it appears someone could have spent all their time in PvE until the WvW patch and then start playing and be on the same level/rank as me regarding “WvW Progression”.

Blackgate Forever,
Riven – [KnT] GM – http://KnightGaming.enjin.com
Commander – Grand General of Blackgate

(edited by Esoteric.5490)

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Posted by: MikeFerguson

MikeFerguson

A:

We use existing mechanics like player kills and event completions to award world XP, but it is an entirely new system with new pieces of data associated to it so unfortunately there’s no way to award retroactive progress.

EDIT: I should have mentioned that once this system is live, everyone will have access to both this new system and the existing achievement titles.

We will be keeping all the existing WvW achievement tracks and titles associated with them, along with the progress you have already obtained on those achievements. None of that stuff is going away, so you can still keep working on those original achievement tracks and titles (which are intended to be extremely rare and obtained over years of play).

Sorry I didn’t make that clearer in my original post, we will have a blog post coming out before the patch explaining this new system in greater detail!

(edited by MikeFerguson.8921)

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Posted by: playandchill.3908

playandchill.3908

Good question. I reallly hope Anet can answer this one.

If feels like the game is somehow reseting if there is no retroactive stuff. Any Pve-only players ll be at same level than a hardcore WvW players. It feels a bit unfair, but it could bring more players to WvW….i dunno…..

At least make the possibility to turn badges for Leveling up those new rank !!!

[LANI] Multi glad pewpew

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(edited by playandchill.3908)

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Posted by: Samhayn.2385

Samhayn.2385

In interview he said “new items to spend badges on” I think that’s as retroactive as your going to get. Everything else will start from square one. Much like you I have spent almost all my time in wvw and I will have no problem with this.

Guardian 80, Thief 80,
Necro 80, RotV-SoR.
It was 2 vs 20 but its ok we got’em both!

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Posted by: Xirin.8593

Xirin.8593

Well said, Riven.

I hope some, if not all, of the titles/achievements/etc. are retroactive in nature (for cases where retroactivity is applicable).

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Posted by: playandchill.3908

playandchill.3908

Oh yeah well if badges are somehow usefull to buy new stuff, it makes a bit of retroactivity.

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Posted by: xxxzavulonxxx.8413

xxxzavulonxxx.8413

I don’t think it needs to be retroactive. Only the most geeky persons will cry foul if someone has a title over their head they do not have themselves…

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Posted by: neverborne.4736

neverborne.4736

I think titles should be applied retroactively, badges should be kept as the primary WvW currency for new items, and progression ranks should start fresh.

_____________________
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Posted by: Samhayn.2385

Samhayn.2385

I think titles should be applied retroactively, badges should be kept as the primary WvW currency for new items, and progression ranks should start fresh.

Titles will most likely be tied to progression, so I don’t think you can have one be retro and not the other.

Guardian 80, Thief 80,
Necro 80, RotV-SoR.
It was 2 vs 20 but its ok we got’em both!

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Posted by: Maladon.5760

Maladon.5760

Why on earth would they release new content and allow you to already have achieved it?

Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
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Posted by: Esoteric.5490

Esoteric.5490

I’m ok without the passive abilities. I can – sort of – understand not getting those from the start. Although there will be a reality where some people have them and some don’t anyway based on who earns them first.

They also made sure to only put in passive abilities that do not seem to be game breaking and did not put in the full spectrum that they are developing for WvW in this patch so it is possible that they intend for people to get them as of the patch based on their current achievements instead of having them be earned later.

I just think it is a giant f-all to the WvW community if they wipe clean everything we have done to this point short of badges when we were already behind the power curve regarding rewards/achievements compared to PvE.

Even still, I think I could – settle – for the titles based on my accomplishments and earn the abilities progressively. To have nothing except maybe ascended gear for badges (which is hardly compensation given PvE content has provided people with months to get them already), would be way over the top and more or less wipe everything WvW players have done for the life of this game.

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Commander – Grand General of Blackgate

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Posted by: Maladon.5760

Maladon.5760

I just think it is a giant f-all to the WvW community if they wipe clean everything we have done to this point short of badges when we were already behind the power curve regarding rewards/achievements compared to PvE.

Why do you care about the “power curve” compared to PvE? Are you losing very many fights to the fractal junkies?

Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)

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Posted by: xxxzavulonxxx.8413

xxxzavulonxxx.8413

I’m ok without the passive abilities. I can – sort of – understand not getting those from the start. Although there will be a reality where some people have them and some don’t anyway based on who earns them first.

They also made sure to only put in passive abilities that do not seem to be game breaking and did not put in the full spectrum that they are developing for WvW in this patch so it is possible that they intend for people to get them as of the patch based on their current achievements instead of having them be earned later.

I just think it is a giant f-all to the WvW community if they wipe clean everything we have done to this point short of badges when we were already behind the power curve regarding rewards/achievements compared to PvE.

Even still, I think I could – settle – for the titles based on my accomplishments and earn the abilities progressively. To have nothing except maybe ascended gear for badges (which is hardly compensation given PvE content has provided people with months to get them already), would be way over the top and more or less wipe everything WvW players have done for the life of this game.

That kind of attitude is repugnant.

Here ANet does something nice for the community and you throw a temper tantrum about a rinky dink title that does not really mean anything significant other than kill count…

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Posted by: Esoteric.5490

Esoteric.5490

Why on earth would they release new content and allow you to already have achieved it?

Because it is directly tracking things that have been tracked for months in your WvW achievements and when these titles/abilities are not directly tied to being able to win, simply recognition for the time put into WvW and making you a better teammate (e.g. carrying more supply, which is already possible), it would hardly be unfair for them to be retroactive. To say that nothing people did before X date doesn’t count is quite a bit silly too.

That’s like saying they add new content for Badges, but it isn’t fair because people already have them or that adding Ascended Accessories for Laurels isn’t fair because people already have those. People could have gotten ascended accessories as soon as they released. Was there a problem with that? I think not. And we’re talking months of gameplay that people put in being thrown away, not a couple weeks of dailies.

Blackgate Forever,
Riven – [KnT] GM – http://KnightGaming.enjin.com
Commander – Grand General of Blackgate

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Posted by: lettucemode.3789

lettucemode.3789

Dunno if it will happen. The question would be if they are tracking the things that you can get world exp for.

Your kills are tracked, so awarding exp for those is doable, unless you can get bonus world exp by killing things that haven’t been killed in a while the same way you get bonus normal exp. Best compromise would be to give a small amount per kill.

EDIT: forgot about the event tracking

Events is a bit easier since they know how many yaks you have killed, how many towers taken, etc and those always give the same amount of exp.

Sanctum of Rall
Builds: Facemelter Watch The Health Bar

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Posted by: EnRohbi.2187

EnRohbi.2187

I highly doubt these things are going to be applied retroactively.
I wouldn’t hold up too much hope for otherwise

Dragonbrand

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Posted by: Branskins.9752

Branskins.9752

Starting at square one allows those players who are becoming interested in WvW to join without feeling behind.

This is good for WvW overall. Get new players in and make them not feel behind. Something tells me if you have the kill title, getting the new titles should be pretty easy

Wrecking Krew [Krew] – Borlis Pass

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Posted by: Esoteric.5490

Esoteric.5490

Dunno if it will happen. The question would be if they are tracking the things that you can get world exp for.

Your kills are tracked, so awarding exp for those is doable, unless you can get bonus world exp by killing things that haven’t been killed in a while the same way you get bonus normal exp. Best compromise would be to give a small flat amount per kill.

EDIT: forgot about the event tracking

Events is a bit easier since they know how many yaks you have killed, how many towers taken, etc.

From Habib’s interview, most things (if not everything) that you will get World XP for are things that have already been tracked.

Blackgate Forever,
Riven – [KnT] GM – http://KnightGaming.enjin.com
Commander – Grand General of Blackgate

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Posted by: Slamz.5376

Slamz.5376

If you look at your hero sheet in-game, there’s an area for WvW achievements that has been tracking a large number of things.

I really hope they use that. I agree it would suck if people who have been doing PvE all this time (reaping rewards unavailable to WvW players) end up being on equal (ground 0) footing with those of us who have been in WvW all this time.

I would like something other than empty pockets and no ascended gear to signify the last several months of hard-fought battles I’ve been in.

Camelot Unchained – from the makers of DAOC
A game that’s 100% WvW
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

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Posted by: Esoteric.5490

Esoteric.5490

That kind of attitude is repugnant.

Here ANet does something nice for the community and you throw a temper tantrum about a rinky dink title that does not really mean anything significant other than kill count…

It’s not a temper tantrum. They are introducing more titles and rewards augmented onto the current system. If they were new requirements for World XP, something that hasn’t been tracked previously, it is understandable, but every single thing that you have ever done in WvW down to the supply used to build rams has been tracked and categorized in your WvW achievements tab. If they are using these categories that are already tracked, then yes, I expect them to count it.

No it is not entitlement, I already worked for the things I’ve accomplished.

If you would like to flame me for my personal views, I’m sure there are other threads you could derail instead of coming here.

Blackgate Forever,
Riven – [KnT] GM – http://KnightGaming.enjin.com
Commander – Grand General of Blackgate

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Posted by: playandchill.3908

playandchill.3908

Starting at square one allows those players who are becoming interested in WvW to join without feeling behind.

This is good for WvW overall. Get new players in and make them not feel behind.

Yeah that´s true.
Well tbh i think nothing ll be retro except the new stuff we ll be able to buy with badges.

I hope they ll also reset PVE progression. I feel behind sometimes.

Could be great to create a new money-currency other than gold to reset whole economy and troll the TP golden boy.

[LANI] Multi glad pewpew

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(edited by playandchill.3908)

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Posted by: Esoteric.5490

Esoteric.5490

Starting at square one allows those players who are becoming interested in WvW to join without feeling behind.

This is good for WvW overall. Get new players in and make them not feel behind. Something tells me if you have the kill title, getting the new titles should be pretty easy

The titles give nothing to aid your play. The passive abilities provide small bonuses that make you a better teammate in WvW.

It is similar to giving a patch or some sort of additional title/reward system to encourage sPvP play, but I would not complain about someone being rank 40 if I have never played it.

Blackgate Forever,
Riven – [KnT] GM – http://KnightGaming.enjin.com
Commander – Grand General of Blackgate

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Posted by: Maladon.5760

Maladon.5760

Wow, some arguments are just too mindnumbing to endure. For the record, I do WvW every single night and have done so for months and I’m against retroactive credit for titles/abilities. I think the idea is simply ludicrous and overtly greedy.

I realize that some players are desperate for the recognition and approval of their peers but this is just nuts.

Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)

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Posted by: xxxzavulonxxx.8413

xxxzavulonxxx.8413

That kind of attitude is repugnant.

Here ANet does something nice for the community and you throw a temper tantrum about a rinky dink title that does not really mean anything significant other than kill count…

It’s not a temper tantrum. They are introducing more titles and rewards augmented onto the current system. If they were new requirements for World XP, something that hasn’t been tracked previously, it is understandable, but every single thing that you have ever done in WvW down to the supply used to build rams has been tracked and categorized in your WvW achievements tab. If they are using these categories that are already tracked, then yes, I expect them to count it.

No it is not entitlement, I already worked for the things I’ve accomplished.

If you would like to flame me for my personal views, I’m sure there are other threads you could derail instead of coming here.

They tracked stats? So what.

Because you worked x-amount of hours in the real world does not mean you always get new shiny stuff as soon as they hit the market place..

The IRS tracks stats.. You want them to give you everything based on past achievements?

What you are doing surmounts to whining or pitching a fit.

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Posted by: Esoteric.5490

Esoteric.5490

Wow, some arguments are just too mindnumbing to endure. For the record, I do WvW every single night and have done so for months and I’m against retroactive credit for titles/abilities. I think the idea is simply ludicrous and overtly greedy.

I realize that some players are desperate for the recognition and approval of their peers but this is just nuts.

So, for the record, you are 100% in favor of completely wiping everything you have ever done in WvW?

If you want to insult people, consider that I don’t want the time I spent inWvW to all of the sudden be worth less than the time people spent in PvE.

If they don’t have the kills or achievements, tough luck. I guess they should have gotten their 500 badges outside of the JP so they’d get a benefit too.

Blackgate Forever,
Riven – [KnT] GM – http://KnightGaming.enjin.com
Commander – Grand General of Blackgate

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Posted by: Slamz.5376

Slamz.5376

Wow, some arguments are just too mindnumbing to endure. For the record, I do WvW every single night and have done so for months and I’m against retroactive credit for titles/abilities. I think the idea is simply ludicrous and overtly greedy.

I think it’s about fairness.

You know how to recognize a dedicated WvW player?

He has no legendary weapon and no ascended gear. And his exotics are probably from the karma vendors in Orr.

I have tons of achievement credit for things like supply used, dolyaks escorted, etc, but while PvE players have reaped rewards, I’ve got nothing.

Seems unfair that now, after PvE players have gotten everything they wanted, they can join WvW and start on equal footing with me and my 2000 dolyak escorts and 15,000 supply used which will count for nothing.

I certainly can’t switch to PvE and suddenly be on equal footing with them.

Camelot Unchained – from the makers of DAOC
A game that’s 100% WvW
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

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Posted by: Branskins.9752

Branskins.9752

All I am saying is that people have been watching WvW and waiting for that one patch that allows them to jump in and enjoy it. A lot of WvWers have also taken breaks because of a lack of new content

IF it is not retroactive, they are playing it safe by allowing people to jump back into WvW and FEEL that they are not behind.

Everyone wants less damage from siege or being able to grab more supply. While not strictly an advantage, people may feel behind as everyone running around has these cool bonuses.

Also progression usually involves… progressing. If after the patch we have unlocked all the passive abilities and all the cool things because we completed WvW titles that were made before this progression system…you aren’t really progressing anything.

I feel like they need to play it safe with this because some tiers are at risk of falling apart or losing more people

EDIT:
I understand it may not be fair. But WvW relies on the community. It needs fresh players to constantly come in and out to keep it stable. Now is not the time to become entitled/elitist because if you push away those players, kiss WvW goodbye.

There will come a time when WvW is truly it’s own thing and doesn’t need to play it safe with new content to get fringe-WvWers to jump in full time. However, I believe this is not the time. I’ve witness lots of DB players doing PvE because WvW is not as rewarding.

The progression system needs to be rewarding and will be important in keeping players in WvW. But we need all those players to come back first too :P

Wrecking Krew [Krew] – Borlis Pass

(edited by Branskins.9752)

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Posted by: Esoteric.5490

Esoteric.5490

They tracked stats? So what.

Because you worked x-amount of hours in the real world does not mean you always get new shiny stuff as soon as they hit the market place..

The IRS tracks stats.. You want them to give you everything based on past achievements?

What you are doing surmounts to whining or pitching a fit.

Actually it does. My job in the real world pays me this thing called “money” that lets me buy the new shiny things when they hit the market place.

Quit making a kitten out of yourself. I guess you are just sad that you quit WvW to go PvE because it wasn’t rewarding enough and now you have buyer’s remorse?

Blackgate Forever,
Riven – [KnT] GM – http://KnightGaming.enjin.com
Commander – Grand General of Blackgate

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Posted by: playandchill.3908

playandchill.3908

Wow, some arguments are just too mindnumbing to endure. For the record, I do WvW every single night and have done so for months and I’m against retroactive credit for titles/abilities. I think the idea is simply ludicrous and overtly greedy.

I think it’s about fairness.

You know how to recognize a dedicated WvW player?

He has no legendary weapon and no ascended gear. And his exotics are probably from the karma vendors in Orr.

I have tons of achievement credit for things like supply used, dolyaks escorted, etc, but while PvE players have reaped rewards, I’ve got nothing.

Seems unfair that now, after PvE players have gotten everything they wanted, they can join WvW and start on equal footing with me and my 2000 dolyak escorts and 15,000 supply used which will count for nothing.

I certainly can’t switch to PvE and suddenly be on equal footing with them.

This.

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Posted by: Esoteric.5490

Esoteric.5490

I think it’s about fairness.

You know how to recognize a dedicated WvW player?

He has no legendary weapon and no ascended gear. And his exotics are probably from the karma vendors in Orr.

I have tons of achievement credit for things like supply used, dolyaks escorted, etc, but while PvE players have reaped rewards, I’ve got nothing.

Seems unfair that now, after PvE players have gotten everything they wanted, they can join WvW and start on equal footing with me and my 2000 dolyak escorts and 15,000 supply used which will count for nothing.

I certainly can’t switch to PvE and suddenly be on equal footing with them.

+1000

You, sir, are the answer until ANet weighs in on my question. Thank you for understanding what I was trying to say as not being entitled, simply receiving what you have earned.

Blackgate Forever,
Riven – [KnT] GM – http://KnightGaming.enjin.com
Commander – Grand General of Blackgate

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Posted by: Maladon.5760

Maladon.5760

I participate in WvW to kill people and have fun, not to chase some silly title. I’ve killed a lot of people and I’ve had a lot of fun. How can they “wipe” that?

You still haven’t answered the question about why you care so much about what the PvE crowd is doing and/or getting. Are you afraid your months of experience is going to be insufficient to deal with them if they choose to use their fractal gear on you? Are you worried they’ll see you on the battlefield and not run in terror because they can’t see a title above your head saying you’ve killed a lot of people lol?

Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)

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Posted by: Xirin.8593

Xirin.8593

I think it’s about fairness.

I certainly can’t switch to PvE and suddenly be on equal footing with them.

Should change username to Slamz Dunk, because that post was one.

Well said.

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Posted by: Maladon.5760

Maladon.5760

Wow, some arguments are just too mindnumbing to endure. For the record, I do WvW every single night and have done so for months and I’m against retroactive credit for titles/abilities. I think the idea is simply ludicrous and overtly greedy.

I think it’s about fairness.

You know how to recognize a dedicated WvW player?

He has no legendary weapon and no ascended gear. And his exotics are probably from the karma vendors in Orr.

I have tons of achievement credit for things like supply used, dolyaks escorted, etc, but while PvE players have reaped rewards, I’ve got nothing.

Seems unfair that now, after PvE players have gotten everything they wanted, they can join WvW and start on equal footing with me and my 2000 dolyak escorts and 15,000 supply used which will count for nothing.

I certainly can’t switch to PvE and suddenly be on equal footing with them.

I’ve got no legendary, all my gear is from Orr or badges, I’ve got about 8 gold. I can also beat the kitten out of any PvE guy who steps foot into the mists fresh out of a fractal. They aren’t on equal footing with me and they shouldn’t be considered on equal footing with you unless you’ve not learned a thing about pvp since you started playing.

Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)

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Posted by: xxxzavulonxxx.8413

xxxzavulonxxx.8413

They tracked stats? So what.

Because you worked x-amount of hours in the real world does not mean you always get new shiny stuff as soon as they hit the market place..

The IRS tracks stats.. You want them to give you everything based on past achievements?

What you are doing surmounts to whining or pitching a fit.

Actually it does. My job in the real world pays me this thing called “money” that lets me buy the new shiny things when they hit the market place.

Quit making a kitten out of yourself. I guess you are just sad that you quit WvW to go PvE because it wasn’t rewarding enough and now you have buyer’s remorse?

Actually I highly doubt you can afford all things you want in life… no one can…

And you are the one who says something about not flaming others and then reverts to flaming others.

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Posted by: Esoteric.5490

Esoteric.5490

I participate in WvW to kill people and have fun, not to chase some silly title. I’ve killed a lot of people and I’ve had a lot of fun. How can they “wipe” that?

You still haven’t answered the question about why you care so much about what the PvE crowd is doing and/or getting. Are you afraid your months of experience is going to be insufficient to deal with them if they choose to use their fractal gear on you? Are you worried they’ll see you on the battlefield and not run in terror because they can’t see a title above your head saying you’ve killed a lot of people lol?

You and zavulon seem to be intent on insulting my ego, although I cannot fathom why I am being condemned for having an opinion. Of course, being a Republican from California, this is not my first rodeo.

For the record, I do NOT care what the PvE crowd is doing. They can have their gear and their legendaries, but when they come into WvW, which they very well might after this patch, there is absolutely NO reason that they should be on equal footing with me regarding titles. It is the same reason that I do not expect to get a Legendary just for running CoF path 1 a couple times. If they tell me that everything that I’ve done in WvW all of the sudden doesn’t count, THAT is what I care about. Who cares about how much fun a person has. They have a Legendary to show for their fun, and you are insinuating that I should have nothing to show for mine because they did not have the foresight to introduce progression at the start of the game or spend my time in PvE.

If anything, ANet should be grateful to us that we saw through the flaws and difficulties of WvW and kept playing because we loved it at its core.

Blackgate Forever,
Riven – [KnT] GM – http://KnightGaming.enjin.com
Commander – Grand General of Blackgate

(edited by Esoteric.5490)

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Posted by: Esoteric.5490

Esoteric.5490

They tracked stats? So what.

Because you worked x-amount of hours in the real world does not mean you always get new shiny stuff as soon as they hit the market place..

The IRS tracks stats.. You want them to give you everything based on past achievements?

What you are doing surmounts to whining or pitching a fit.

Actually it does. My job in the real world pays me this thing called “money” that lets me buy the new shiny things when they hit the market place.

Quit making a kitten out of yourself. I guess you are just sad that you quit WvW to go PvE because it wasn’t rewarding enough and now you have buyer’s remorse?

Actually I highly doubt you can afford all things you want in life… no one can…

And you are the one who says something about not flaming others and then reverts to flaming others.

I’m not asking for a legendary in return for my time played when I didn’t earn it. Unless the bar is set absurdly high, I have done everything to earn those titles/bonuses.

Think of it like working and not getting a pay check because your boss’ business is struggling. When the business starts doing well again, you don’t lose that money; you didn’t work for free. He still owes it to you. You know what, ANet is that boss, and we played WvW while they were broke and said, “It’s okay, just pay us when you can.”

This is when we get “paid”.

Blackgate Forever,
Riven – [KnT] GM – http://KnightGaming.enjin.com
Commander – Grand General of Blackgate

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Posted by: Branskins.9752

Branskins.9752

WvW has gotten the short end every single patch. No one will disagree with this.

I will stand by my belief that WvW is in a fragile state and if you create a division with players in PvE, WvW will have a slow death.

I know many PvE players who want to love WvW but the progression is not there so they PvE. .

I feel like this progression system is important to start off on equal footing with everyone for this very reason: hook PvE players and then keep them in WvW because it’s fun and rewarding

Wrecking Krew [Krew] – Borlis Pass

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Posted by: xxxzavulonxxx.8413

xxxzavulonxxx.8413

They tracked stats? So what.

Because you worked x-amount of hours in the real world does not mean you always get new shiny stuff as soon as they hit the market place..

The IRS tracks stats.. You want them to give you everything based on past achievements?

What you are doing surmounts to whining or pitching a fit.

Actually it does. My job in the real world pays me this thing called “money” that lets me buy the new shiny things when they hit the market place.

Quit making a kitten out of yourself. I guess you are just sad that you quit WvW to go PvE because it wasn’t rewarding enough and now you have buyer’s remorse?

Actually I highly doubt you can afford all things you want in life… no one can…

And you are the one who says something about not flaming others and then reverts to flaming others.

I’m not asking for a legendary in return for my time played when I didn’t earn it. Unless the bar is set absurdly high, I have done everything to earn those titles/bonuses.

Think of it like working and not getting a pay check because your boss’ business is struggling. When the business starts doing well again, you don’t lose that money; you didn’t work for free. He still owes it to you. You know what, ANet is that boss, and we played WvW while they were broke and said, “It’s okay, just pay us when you can.”

This is when we get “paid”.

So yeah…

But sometimes things like a recession occurs and people lose their jobs and start from square one (I am a current economics major because of that little fiasco).

Life and video games change over time.

PvE’rs might have ascended gear and have a little advantage gear wise when they enter WvW. However, they do not have some end all be all advantage over those of us who have thrown our time into WvW because we have experience. I suspect if PvE’rs do start playing WvW that they will be behind the pack in World XP. They have a learning curve to overcome.

Titles will come to me. And for me it is about my own personal achievement, and not what others do. And if ANet wants to start with a blank state, I do not see any real problem with it. Especially if the items PvEr’s have gotten from fractals become available with badges.

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Posted by: Esoteric.5490

Esoteric.5490

Because this entire thread is ego-driven. Your ego is why you think you deserve these things.

The numbers in my WvW achievement tab are why I have earned these things. I am not entitled and I do not expect anything that I haven’t worked for in game or in life.

And zavulon, I’m not even sure what to say to that. If you work for something, you get paid. There was a recession of sorts in this game since launch. Now that this patch is saying the “recession is over”, I expect to be paid accordingly to my work since the good times are rolling and I haven’t seen a dime in months.

Blackgate Forever,
Riven – [KnT] GM – http://KnightGaming.enjin.com
Commander – Grand General of Blackgate

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Posted by: Jeda.5209

Jeda.5209

It would be pretty dumb if it wasn’t retroactive.

Those stats were their for titles already just were so far to reach. Why should it be reset. Nothing in pve has got reset to get something that was later updated.

Examples: map completion. The title is kept even when they add new areas.
Guild bounties/ missions- guilds didn’t have to start from scratch to earn influence to do these bounties. No, it used influence already earned.

Sea of Sorrows

(Bronze Soldier)

(edited by Jeda.5209)

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Posted by: xxxzavulonxxx.8413

xxxzavulonxxx.8413

Because this entire thread is ego-driven. Your ego is why you think you deserve these things.

The numbers in my WvW achievement tab are why I have earned these things. I am not entitled and I do not expect anything that I haven’t worked for in game or in life.

And zavulon, I’m not even sure what to say to that. If you work for something, you get paid. There was a recession of sorts in this game since launch. Now that this patch is saying the “recession is over”, I expect to be paid accordingly to my work since the good times are rolling and I haven’t seen a dime in months.

But it’s not a real world economy and a market place. We didn’t sign any contract to play GW2 other than abiding to the ToS (which I am sure only about 1 in 100,000 actually read). So there’s no worker/employer type contract.

To be fair to Anet just a little, they did increase loot bags. So we are getting paid a little better for spending our time pew pewing.

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Posted by: Xirin.8593

Xirin.8593

But it’s not a real world economy and a market place. We didn’t sign any contract to play GW2 other than abiding to the ToS (which I am sure only about 1 in 100,000 actually read). So there’s no worker/employer type contract.

To be fair to Anet just a little, they did increase loot bags. So we are getting paid a little better for spending our time pew pewing.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/analogy

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Posted by: Slamz.5376

Slamz.5376

I’ve got no legendary, all my gear is from Orr or badges, I’ve got about 8 gold. I can also beat the kitten out of any PvE guy who steps foot into the mists fresh out of a fractal. They aren’t on equal footing with me and they shouldn’t be considered on equal footing with you unless you’ve not learned a thing about pvp since you started playing.

So by that thinking, I should step into PvE and be immediately granted full equal rewards with people who have been doing PvE since opening day.

After all, they are more knowledgeable about fractals and boss mobs and can really beat those things better than me.

It shouldn’t bother them at all that I get all the same gear and titles that they do even though I didn’t put in any of that effort. They’re better than me at those things and that’s good enough, right?

Let’s start PvE on equal footing. Grant everyone full legendary and ascended gear and titles.

Camelot Unchained – from the makers of DAOC
A game that’s 100% WvW
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

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Posted by: Esoteric.5490

Esoteric.5490

Because this entire thread is ego-driven. Your ego is why you think you deserve these things.

The numbers in my WvW achievement tab are why I have earned these things. I am not entitled and I do not expect anything that I haven’t worked for in game or in life.

And zavulon, I’m not even sure what to say to that. If you work for something, you get paid. There was a recession of sorts in this game since launch. Now that this patch is saying the “recession is over”, I expect to be paid accordingly to my work since the good times are rolling and I haven’t seen a dime in months.

But it’s not a real world economy and a market place. We didn’t sign any contract to play GW2 other than abiding to the ToS (which I am sure only about 1 in 100,000 actually read). So there’s no worker/employer type contract.

To be fair to Anet just a little, they did increase loot bags. So we are getting paid a little better for spending our time pew pewing.

Analogies aside, I stand by what I said. The poster above you characterized it very well. The title/bonus system appears to be using the same categories that have already been tracked. There is no reason that those stats should not count for these titles. Guilds that had influence could do the missions right away.

The best compromise I could see here is having a delay on giving World XP for prior achievements. Wait a month before giving the experience/titles to those who already have kills.

A similar system is supposedly going to go into effect for laurels, granting players more laurels based on your points for non-repeatable achievements such as the slayer titles or personal story completion. It is understandable that this wasn’t done immediately, but since Laurels are achievement based, it makes sense that prior achievements would be included eventually.

Similarly, these WvW titles/bonuses are based off of achievements in WvW. If they delayed it to give new players a chance to dip their feet in WvW before giving the veterans all the buffs/titles, that is one thing, but it doesn’t make sense to not include tracked stats that the titles and bonuses are based off of.

Blackgate Forever,
Riven – [KnT] GM – http://KnightGaming.enjin.com
Commander – Grand General of Blackgate

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Posted by: BrimstoneAshe.5043

BrimstoneAshe.5043

I understand the desire to get some sort of acknowledgement for previous WvW experience, but I don’t agree with the perspective of “I sacrificed my PvE progression for WvW.” If you’re a WvW veteran then you know darn well how unrewarding WvW was in comparison to PvE in terms of loot. Week after week, month after month you WvW all the while realizing the scores at the end ultimately meant nothing. But in the end it’s the choice YOU made in how you wanted to spend your time.

To say you’re going to be very disappointed that you’re not retroactively rewarded for a “unrewarding” part of the game you chose to play is just really the wrong attitude IMO. I put unrewarding in quotes because it’s a matter of perspective. I personally find WvW very rewarding in fun and loot even in it’s current state. The future of WvW is even more exciting to me — I’m really looking forward to it.

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Posted by: Quenta.2978

Quenta.2978

I am guessing a big middle finger will be given to WvW focused players. I highly doubt any retroactive.

I feel like this patch they are coming out with could be the savior of WvW for GW2 or ANets own Trials of Atlantis.

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Posted by: Esoteric.5490

Esoteric.5490

I understand the desire to get some sort of acknowledgement for previous WvW experience, but I don’t agree with the perspective of “I sacrificed my PvE progression for WvW.” If you’re a WvW veteran then you know darn well how unrewarding WvW was in comparison to PvE in terms of loot. Week after week, month after month you WvW all the while realizing the scores at the end ultimately meant nothing. But in the end it’s the choice YOU made in how you wanted to spend your time.

To say you’re going to be very disappointed that you’re not retroactively rewarded for a “unrewarding” part of the game you chose to play is just really the wrong attitude IMO. I put unrewarding in quotes because it’s a matter of perspective. I personally find WvW very rewarding in fun and loot even in it’s current state. The future of WvW is even more exciting to me — I’m really looking forward to it.

Please read my OP. I specifically said I love WvW and would not like to see these judgmental “you chose to play it” or “don’t play it if you don’t enjoy it” attitudes.

I’m excited for the future of WvW too. I think a lot of good changes are being made.

The underlying fear for a LOT of players is that ANet will decide that all of our achievements don’t count. Not that we deserve to be rewarded, but rather have EARNED the reward. These titles aren’t earned with a new currency. They are earned with the same achievements compiled together. They are calling that “World XP”, but that doesn’t mean it is anything new, just a different categorization. There are people out there with 100k kills. I only have about 25k. If those people have a higher title than me, they earned it as well.

Blackgate Forever,
Riven – [KnT] GM – http://KnightGaming.enjin.com
Commander – Grand General of Blackgate

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Posted by: Maladon.5760

Maladon.5760

I’ve got no legendary, all my gear is from Orr or badges, I’ve got about 8 gold. I can also beat the kitten out of any PvE guy who steps foot into the mists fresh out of a fractal. They aren’t on equal footing with me and they shouldn’t be considered on equal footing with you unless you’ve not learned a thing about pvp since you started playing.

So by that thinking, I should step into PvE and be immediately granted full equal rewards with people who have been doing PvE since opening day.

No, you still have to work for them…just like the PvE guys will have to work for their WvW rewards.

Malzarius – Guardian
Malzerius – Thief
Dark Covenant (SBI)

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Posted by: fenim.2395

fenim.2395

In short the answer is, NO.

Think of it as a business side rather than fairness or individual. WvWers have asked for progession to make thier WvW more fun and rewarding. If ANET was to release this already giving veteran players titles then there is no point to this progression update. This update is to keep players in the WvW Universe and to invite new people who might be interested not to hand veteran players all their progression and therefore making progression useless. ( I might see them giving us a little head start though.)

If you are a veteran of WvW then you already know all the things about it and so you have an advantage to people just joining. Think of it as practicing before a big race.

ANET is a business and must think like a business. If thier existing consumers complain though then they might implement a head start for those existing WvW consumers.

(edited by fenim.2395)

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Posted by: EnRohbi.2187

EnRohbi.2187

I understand the desire to get some sort of acknowledgement for previous WvW experience, but I don’t agree with the perspective of “I sacrificed my PvE progression for WvW.” If you’re a WvW veteran then you know darn well how unrewarding WvW was in comparison to PvE in terms of loot. Week after week, month after month you WvW all the while realizing the scores at the end ultimately meant nothing. But in the end it’s the choice YOU made in how you wanted to spend your time.

To say you’re going to be very disappointed that you’re not retroactively rewarded for a “unrewarding” part of the game you chose to play is just really the wrong attitude IMO. I put unrewarding in quotes because it’s a matter of perspective. I personally find WvW very rewarding in fun and loot even in it’s current state. The future of WvW is even more exciting to me — I’m really looking forward to it.

Please read my OP. I specifically said I love WvW and would not like to see these judgmental “you chose to play it” or “don’t play it if you don’t enjoy it” attitudes.

I’m excited for the future of WvW too. I think a lot of good changes are being made.

The underlying fear for a LOT of players is that ANet will decide that all of our achievements don’t count. Not that we deserve to be rewarded, but rather have EARNED the reward. These titles aren’t earned with a new currency. They are earned with the same achievements compiled together. They are calling that “World XP”, but that doesn’t mean it is anything new, just a different categorization. There are people out there with 100k kills. I only have about 25k. If those people have a higher title than me, they earned it as well.

He is right though,
You can’t just say that a valid opposing point can’t be posted here.

You made a decision to play the game mode based on the assumption that you were getting no material reward for doing so.

You are also assuming that World Exp is going to be given out as a static number per kill/accomplishment.
What if it varies by level? Anet didn’t track the level of each of your kills.
What if it scales with the number of people involved in the kill/capture/defense/etc? Anet didn’t keep track of that either.

Completely putting “fairness” and what you think you deserve aside,
It is very likely that technical limitations will prevent Anet from making any calculations about how much you should have actually earned retroactively.

Dragonbrand

(edited by EnRohbi.2187)

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Posted by: Esoteric.5490

Esoteric.5490

He is right though,
You can’t just say that a valid opposing point can’t be posted here.

You made a decision to play the game mode based on the assumption that you were getting no material reward for doing so.

You are also assuming that World Exp is going to be given out as a static number per kill/accomplishment.
What if it varies by level? Anet didn’t track the level of each of your kills.
What if it scales with the number of people involved in the kill/capture/defense/etc? Anet didn’t keep track of that either.

Completely putting “fairness” and what you think you deserve aside,
It is very likely that technical limitations will prevent Anet from making any calculations about how much you should have actually earned retroactively.

It isn’t a valid point if he’s telling me that I chose to play it so I shouldn’t expect anything more.

There is an up-level system. No matter how “broken” it may be, it has never affected the experience gained from a kill before. World XP, as my best guess, is a flat, account bound rate, meaning that level will have no bearing over how fast it will be gained.

Sure, there are a lot of unknowns regarding how it is calculated, but currently it doesn’t appear as if it will be any different from the achievements and titles we were already progressing towards (no matter how impossible).

If they use a system where 1 Kill = XXX Exp and 1 Keep = XXXX Exp then it absolutely should be retroactive, even if the inclusion of the World XP is delayed so everyone starts out evenly, as I have previously suggested.

Once again, this isn’t about what I think I “deserve” it is about what I have EARNED and what countless other WvW players have EARNED. There is no entitlement here, simply asking everything that we’ve done to this point to actually count for something. It isn’t even monetary based. It’s a kittening title and some passive bonuses that allow you to be a better teammate and add depth to the game type.

We aren’t making more money and we don’t have better gear. In fact, the new players probably have better gear since we only WvW, so why the hell shouldn’t we have benefits to our gameplay based on how we chose to spend our game time? They have Ascended gear, I carry additional supply and do more damage with siege. Seems fair to me.

Blackgate Forever,
Riven – [KnT] GM – http://KnightGaming.enjin.com
Commander – Grand General of Blackgate